United States presidential election, 2008 [NSR]

Discussion in 'Colombia' started by minus, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    Obama running things?? Hahahhaha thats a good one one, Obama was sold to the American public as a brand, they capitalized on his ethnicity and propped him up as our savior...all you need to know about this puppet is that he was a former corporate lawyer for a company that was a KNOWN CIA FRONT and had his education partially paid for by that terrorist Kissinger.......
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Libertarians and Republicans usually think that people voting for Obama see him as the Mesiah and in a vast number of occassions they're wrong... I don't think that people in general perceive him as a the savior, but as the better alternative. Or what do you propose? Not voting, voting Republican or voting for a candidate without real chance to win?

    All in all, the two party system is flawed and forces voters on false dichotomies, but rather than doing any of the other things, I'll take my chances with Obama and hope that serious reform is pushed from the Occupy movement or we face living in a Corporate dictatorship for the next 20 or 30 years.
     
    ogopogo repped this.
  3. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    You are right that the two party system is flawed, however voting for either of the presidential "candidates" is equivalent to submission when you KNOW that you are voting for the "better alternative" aka lesser of two evils.
    My solution is education of self and those around you... if the people/masses were aware of how corrupt our political system is, and how central bankers are responsible for the plight of our country/world then there would be revolution, whether it be peaceful or armed that to me is the only solution that will make change.
    As for living in a corporate dictatorship, its too late.... we have been slaves to the military/industrial complex for decades...
     
  4. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia

    The problem with education is that it takes a while to have significant effect and to change our voting system, if that ever happens... In the meanwhile we have to deal with the present choices as limited as they are... Between somebody that at least wants to defend the social safety net vs the party of no and whose only proposal is Tax Cuts for the rich, I'll stay with the first...

    Again, you are partially right regarding reality, but the citizens united decision put corporatism on steroids. If the Repugs win, they will have the chance to choose two Supreme Court Justices and tilt the balance of power for the rest of the century towards a society resembling an African or Latin American Country...
     
  5. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    No, he is completely right, please tell me one policy that Obama has changed from the Bush years? We already resemble a society from Africa or latin America, WAKE UP, there are people already living in tents in California, that is a sign of third world poverty. I see armed military in the streets preparing for martial law like a third world dictatorship and under Obama it has accelerated. Webster Tarpley comes from your leftist leaning point of thinking but at least he has common sense to know Obama is a Puppet of the offshore bankers looting this country. At least I admit when I was fooled by Ron Paul and I reverse course and realize no politician will change our situation, it is up to us to collectively unite and kick the bankers out of this country.
     
  6. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    The problem with trying to get change through the voting system is that it is ALL CONTROLLED, we dont even cast paper ballots anymore its all done digitally through machines.. you know what im saying? If you think that citizens collective choice through voting will end this corrupt system just look back at Bush (Idiot) Vs. Gore, the central banking elite knew who they wanted in office and strings were pulled leading the US to its worse president in history.

    Once again, senate,house, or the courts it DOES NOT MATTER who if it is Republican or Democrat that is in power because they are all owned by the same shadow government... Obama is a globalist, just like all his other Bilderberg buddies.
     
  7. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Probably we cannot get the big change that we need, but at least we can prevent having the second worst president in history... If you acknowledge that Gore was better (even if not much) than W, a more involved citizenry could have prevented the stooge in the WH...

    Again, there are differences and while Obama is, by other than our flawed standard,s a right wing politician, I will take him, becasue he at least acknowledge the role of the government in our society, over a corporate goon willing to privatize every aspect of our lives that has not yet been given to the corporations to profit from... Yes, he is not perfect (Obama) but he is way better than the alternative (R-Money)..

    The system is flawed and we need to reform it, but I still consider that voting and civil desobedience are the right tools to be used. What do you think about it?
     
  8. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    The facts will show that Obama is in fact the corporate goon that you so much fear (i do too), Barack has bailed out major coporations and banking institutions at the cost of the taxpayer. He has also allowed Bernanke to continue his destructive practice of "quantitative easing" which is simply printing out money (making ALL OF US poorer) all for the sake of saving "too big too fail" institutions. If you want to get an idea of what is happening in this country just take a look at Greece.
    To summarize really quick, the corrupt central bank of this country Federal Reserve continues to print out money out of thin air, and "loans" it to the banks at little to no interest KEEP IN MIND the account holders of the Federal Reserve are the very same banks that are receiving these loans. The banks then loan out the money to the people using irresponsible practices and ridiculous interest rates. This creates a huge debt bubble and creates inflation as well, this is exactly what the IMF did to Greece and is now doing to Spain and Portugal.

    Here is the link that explains the harms of central banking http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/slavetobanks.php
    As for your question I partially agree, perhaps we can get enough people to realize that voting yields no results and instead can be used as a form of civil disobedience as in no one showing up to the polls......
     
  9. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Most of the bailout deal was planned in 2008 alonside with the Bush administration and I think that the most blatant mistake was to allow the Bank goons to propose the term of the rescue. We know how it is working. On the other hand rescuing GM IMHO made all the sense and saved a lot of jobs and a big industry.


    Totally different problems, in the US 80 or 90% of the problem was lack of regulation of the financial sector and the collapse of the financial derivatives... Greece was given a lot of foreign credit under the assumption that the good times (tourists and property values) will stay forever. The Greek government was also irresponsible and increased their public spending based on inflated projections. When the bubble busted the IMF forced austerity was needed but their debt to GDP ratios are like 100 times more than in the US.


    Printing money is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the economy is solid and mostly based on production, not speculation. When the real estate bubble busted in the US, it took with it around 25 to 30% of the GDP, while in those countries the effect was vaster.


    I still do not buy the Federal Reserve conspiracy, since after the 1929 crash brought stability and prosperity for the next 50 years; granted the rest of the world was basically in shambles and that allowed the US economy to become the most powerful in the world.


    50 or 60% of the people do not vote!!!! I think it will be better to have them voting blank or pushing for alternative candidates. Not registering in the political systeme is so OWS.... Not that I don't agree with them, only that I think they need to get involved in the elections big time...
     
    Alonso#13 repped this.
  10. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    Im going to put it to you this way- I put both my hands behind my back and tell you to choose one. Obviously you have the choice between the left hand or the right hand,when you choose the left hand I punch you in the mouth i then put both my hands behind my back again and tell you to choose a side again, this time you choose the right and I punch you in the mouth again regardless of democrat or republican the choices are already made by the real people in power...the CEO's of the top corporations, the central bankers, the moguls/tycoons of industry the really "1%" or more like the .001%
     
  11. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Printing money is not a bad thing? ever heard of inflation? You are clueless about how economic policy works or what happens when you print WORTHLESS PIECES of paper backed by nothing. The elite only do deals in gold, when this country had a gold standard it was the most prosperous nation in the world because the dollar was as good as an ounce of gold. Printing money that is backed by nothing will ALWAYS LEAD TO AN ECONOMIC COLLAPSE and there is no solid economy that can survive printing worthless paper.

    You do not have to buy into anything, facts speak for themselves. The Dollar has lost 98% percent of its value since 1913, fact, not conspiracy. The prosperity you speak of was created on debt and on robbing the American public of their money with an illegal income tax, social security and all of the social safety nets that the government has used to steal the wealth of the American people. The federal reserve engineered the great depression just like they have engineered this depression and the coming collapse of the dollar. The US economy was already the most powerful before the federal reserve, so get your facts straight and come back again so I can teach you how to be a real American and not a lover of tyranny and slavery.
     
  12. hanzellmo

    hanzellmo Member

    Feb 25, 2007
    Bogota
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Dude you are the one that doesn't know what he's talking about, there are plenty of reasons why currency backed by gold is inefficient, hell just look up the changes in gold value in the last century, that should show you what makes sense.
     
  13. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    You try to antagonize me and you come up with such an ignorant statement that it just leads me to one conclusion, the Colombian universities must be horrible if you are learning such garbish. Currency backed by gold is efficient and one example of that was the USA. We were the wealthiest nation in the history of the world under the gold standard because a dollar was as valuable as an ounce of gold. Gold is what gives value to a currency and when that does not happen then we end up with what is going in the USA today where the federal reserve prints money out of thin air and has made the dollar lose 98% of its value since 1913. That is why the banks are hoarding all of the gold, that is why the ELITE ONLY DO DEALS IN GOLD, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IS REAL MONEY and not fiat currency like the dollar is today. Gold has changed because it has been manipulated by the bankers that run the world but gold will always remain the item that will give value to any currency. When you print money backed with nothing it creates inflation which destroys the value of a currency and it eventually leads to the collapse of that currency. Tell you what for homework, Ill leave you a couple of videos so you educate yourself regarding gold and its value so that way I will not have to school you so badly. Enjoy:
    and
     
  14. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    If citizens knew better or just took the time to act, the options would change eventually... I believe that people still can get their country back using the tools available to them. I guess that you feel the system is so rigged that is no longer worth the effort trying to save it. If that is the case, what are you proposing? Armed revolution? Wait for Doomsday? Or just sitting there complaining waiting for the Reserve to magically fall appart? Remember, if you don't act you have little right to complain about the outcome.
     
  15. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    You are absolutely right, to answer your question Peaceful Revolution through civil disobedience is what I hope for, Armed Revolution is what I am prepared for.
    Remember that JFK quote? goes something like "those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable"
     
  16. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    Hey what you just contradicted your point of view with that statement. If you look at the value of gold in comparison to the US Dollar, gold has continued to increase in value steadily for the past 10+ years. This is because as the dollar loses value more of it is needed to purchase gold, its the basic to economics supply vs. demand.

    I am not sure how much into politics you are or most people on this forum are, but if you want to learn about the power of gold as a currency and the level of control that the bankers have you can watch this video; it talks about how Gaddafi was killed because of his proposition to create a gold backed currency in Africa, ignore the Illuminati reference at the beginning it doesnt even talk about them:
     
  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Do you think that we're past the turning point? How close are we to Armed Revolution?

    Watching the TP I am afraid that if they command the Revolution they will just hand it back to the current powers (they don't know better). On the other extreme of the spectrum, I think that OWS is too tame and they will only take the arms as the very very very very last option.

    Besides armed revolutions have a way to transform themselves into dictatorships.... Acting in the name of the greater good has a very perverse effect in the leaders chosen to implement the changes wanted by the people...
     
  18. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    Personally I do not believe that we are past the turning point, this is why educating ourselves and those around us is so important...I truly believe that if enough of the population is made to realize who the worlds enemies are then we can unfvck the world, know what im sayin?

    If there is to be a armed revolution I think that it wouldnt be solely a TP or OWS thing, it would probably be more of combination of different political ideologies working together to remove the core of the problem... your last paragraph I think is the age old problem...who is fit to lead and what point is he deemed unfit for the task?
     
  19. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Dapip must have missed the memo where the department of homeland security bought 450 million rounds of ammo and bullet proof booths
    http://www.infowars.com/after-huge-ammo-buy-dhs-purchases-bullet-resistant-booths/ They are preparing for martial law and civil war because when they finally admit what Alonso and I know about how bad they have looted the country even Dapip will have no choice but to riot. Why do you think they are stocking up on weapons? instead of trying to help the American people they are preparing for war against us. This is the reason that the declaration of independence states that we have the right to take back our government if it becomes destructive and abusive and that time is coming very soon.
     
  20. hanzellmo

    hanzellmo Member

    Feb 25, 2007
    Bogota
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    by how much? it doesn't even adjust its value to inflation, well known fact keeping your savings in gold is a bozo move, besides there materials much more rare and expensive than gold that gain more value as times goes by.

    I must admit i was a bit shocked when i found out money wasn't backed by gold almost everywhere in the world now, then i found out why and it made sense but i guess i'm missing the conspiracy theorist brain for that to seem wrong.
     
  21. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    And here lies the main problem!!!!!!! There's too little people that actually want to be enligthened and they're happy to buy into the lies feeded onto them. And do not forget to factor the systematic destruction of the educational system to replace it with a corporate values teaching ladder.

    Teapartiers will not revolt, unless Obama and the Congress become all Democrat. If the Repugs have at least one of the chambers the puppet masters will keep the reigns short enough for them to disrupt the administration but not their profits. OWS has more potential for revolution, but they have not yet realized where their power realy lies.

    Hopefully a John Connor will be found...;)
     
  22. hanzellmo

    hanzellmo Member

    Feb 25, 2007
    Bogota
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Ok if its so obvious that gold has this overwhelming value and its resilient against inflation, would you mind noting why is that?

    As far as im concerned, gold is almost useless metal with the main use being electronics and jewellery, who wants ornaments in a time of financial crisis?
     
  23. Alonso#13

    Alonso#13 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    New York City
    Hey Hanzel here is a link that shows the price of gold currently and what it has been valued in the past. http://www.goldprice.org/ . Gold has ALWAYS been used as a form of currency because of its rarity and overall demand....it is definitely a more reliable backing than using money that is printed out of thin air and to say that it doesnt adjust its value to inflation is ridiculous...otherwise how do you think gold gains in value? Through inflation of fiat currencies duh :rolleyes::p
     
  24. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    It depends.... Do you foresee yourself as carrying gold coins in a pouch? In a cataclismic event, gold is just another shinny thing, food, water, tools and skills will be much more valuable. Furthermore gold was initially chosen as a coin due more to its properties and lack of practical use than its intrinsec value... It is just a standard... In terms of real value, probably the rare metals in your cellphone are much more valuable, but very inpractical to use...
     
    hanzellmo and pepinointer repped this.
  25. hanzellmo

    hanzellmo Member

    Feb 25, 2007
    Bogota
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Gold value is given by rarity you are right there, but the thing is gold is not rare any more and humanity doesn't need gold or well only to scam chumps that think they are too smart for society.

    By your definition then mud, copper or leather are more valuable than gold, since they were used first as currency, what about goats or chickens at least you can eat those.

    Gold is not liquid currency is like having a million dollar house and saying you got a million dollars.
     

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