The Great Sabo Debate

There is only one way to solve this very touchy subject......

GLADIATORIAL GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two men (or women or one man one woman or etc. etc. etc.) enter, only ONE COMES OUT!!!

MAY THE ODDS BE EVER IN YOUR FAVOR

Little Kid: I think I'm going to be sick....

 

well this should be a simple and short one:

there is no debate. plain and simple sabo is going to be the highest scoring RSL player in franchise history and he'll probably have the highest goals per game average. this doesnt even touch on the fact that RSL is more or less UNBEATABLE when Sabo scores (and i'm not talking like a 10 game sample size, we are literally like 24-3-6 WLD when he scores). when sabo ends his RSL career there is no question that he will be RSL's greatest forward of all time. period. end of debate.

 

I was hoping more like "get in the cage with nick cage"
http://www.hulu.com/watch/328552/saturday-night-live-weekend-update-get-in-the-cage

 

I keep seeing this stat put up during the games. I'd be curious to know what the stat is when other players score. By definition, when someone scores for RSL, we're much more likely to win. Does a goal by Sabo mean that much more than a goal by anyone else? Just curious.

BTW, the question of Sabo's worth to RSL seems really obvious to me. He's our best forward, and has been since he came to RSL. Espy is right behind him. Our real problem is that the drop from Espy to the next guy (Paulo/Bonfigli) is way too big. The problem is not Sabo.

 

Keep in the mind this is just some random bloggers opinion, but...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1178067-mls-ranking-the-10-most-lethal-strikers-in-the-us/page/7

My opinion is this: Sabo has good games, bad games, and great games (just like any other player on the team). However, his good and great games are far more frequent than his bad. He is a huge asset to the team, and he is showing he can do more and more off than ball than he used to, and he keeps defenders paying attention to him. That doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

 

One thing I really appreciate with Sabo is that, while he can be a bit of a head case, he's never had a "******** the world" moment like Espy and Olave are prone to.

His "off" games feature him having a slightly bad touch.
Not going ape shit all over the pitch and making this squad go a man down

 

I just realized I actually already have the data to figure this out. Get ready everyone, I'm putting on my nerd hat for a minute:

Based on regular season MLS games only, from 2007 - 2011, here is the points-per-game for each player when they play, and when they score. The last column is the increase in PPG between when they play vs. when they score, and is probably the fairest way to rank them since different players played in different seasons, and played in different kinds of games.

Code:

Player    PPG when play  PPG when score  PPG Increase
Saborio    1.74            2.35            0.61
Espindola  1.49            2.00            0.51
Morales    1.49            2.29            0.80
Findley    1.34            2.58            1.24
Yura       1.17            1.85            0.68
Beckerman  1.50            2.08            0.59

The results: Findley's goals made the biggest impact. We were 20-2-2 when he scored, versus 34-27-35 overall when he played. Javi also tends to score big goals, although he scores much less often. The rest are all within close range of each other--and Sabo doesn't really stick out. Yes, the team has an awesome record when Sabo scores. We also have a great record when Kyle scores.

[/nerd hat off] This is not meant to say that Sabo isn't great, because he definitely is. I was just curious to know whether his goals mattered more than anyone else's--i.e. does he score "big" goals. It looks like Robbie can claim that title for now. Now you can all go back to arguing over Sabo's merits again.

 

I'm glad we have him and hope to see him up top for us for as long as we can keep him.

 

great analysis. when i see numbers like this the first thing my brain does is it tells me that the PPG Increase is another form of "how dependent is the team upon X player scoring goals." RSL lived and died by Findley scoring goals, when he didnt, the team usually either tied or lost. When he did, the team almost always won. this is of course also dependent upon the teammates surrounding that player, in terms of Findley it was an average team at best (or more accurately they hadnt developed into the team they currently are, yet), but they won the cup with a completely average record. the Saborio PPG numbers tell me that the team as a whole is much better, since when he doesnt score the team splits between wins and ties with some losses. but when he does score the team, again, usually wins.

a PPG increase such as Findley's doesnt necessarily tell me that he was RSL's greatest striker, it just tells me that the team was completely dependent upon him scoring goals for them to win games.

someone should also do goals per game splits for the players, goals per game in wins, goals per game in losses, etc. that would be pretty interesting and would be more indicative a players attacking effectiveness on an individual level.

 

I feel like as a fan, I need to support Sabo as much as possible, and hope that spreads. I really don't understand the Sabo hate. I want him to love playing here, because then he'll stay for a long time. If he knows the fans aren't 100% behind him, who's to say if he'll stick around if a better deal comes up for him? I would be pissed if he left because he wasn't getting the fan support for all of his hard work.

The man is a great asset for this team. I would much rather see him on our roster than someone elses.

 

Exactly correct, and well said.

I don't have more time to spend on this right now, but I'll think about doing it at some point...

 

Well this thread got boring fast. I came in ready to see bickering, arguing, name calling and all that. I read DEBATE in the title and thought there would be one. Maybe someone can change the title to "Sabo love fest" or something more appropriate (actually I am finding those statistics interesting).

 

SABO IS AWFUL!!!! TRADE 'EM!!!! WE PAY HIM TO SCORE AND HE ISN'T SCORING!!!!! PURE GARBAGE!!!!! I SPIT IN HIS GENERAL DIRECTION!!!!! RIMANDO COULD PLAY A BETTER STRIKER THAN SABO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hooray Beer!

(And Sabo)

 

OOooo.. nerd hat. I love BS.

And, uhh, to contribute to the actual conversation:

Sabo is ... uhhh ... moderately attractive. But not as attractive as Steele. We should play Steele more.*

* I'm not sure the self-deprecating humor translates well to the Internet, so I should probably have a disclaimer: this is a joke. Only a joke. Carry on.

 

The haters will come out a little later...make it a lopsided thread for the dark side. I personally love the dude. Works on and off the ball. Can't fault him for being tired at the end of the match..

 

If we're talking about looks I'll admit to a small man crush on Beltran.

 

I'm pretty sure we don't want to go there. At least not in this thread.

 

[Warning.Huge post.]
Here's the thing guys, Saborio isn't Messi.
Neither is Espindola, or Wondo, or even T.Henry.
There is no player in this league that possesses the videogame ability to dribble past 5 defenders to score a goal. There are very few in the entire world. That is why they're paid so much.

Saborio is a lethal finisher.
He gets a chance in the box and he'll finish it.
It's because of his ability that he has to have a defender or two on him all the time during set pieces and is closely watched during the run of play.

This leaves it up to the Midfield to bypass the defense so he can score
and IMHO the midfield is where we are having the problems.

Javi isn't 100% yet and keeps getting injured.
I've yet to see anyone on this team with the same vision as Javi.
It's his passes that lead to so many goals.

It's a team effort.
RSL plays its beautiful soccer when Saborio, Espindola, and Javi all play.

TLDR: The midfield isn't providing many opportunities to either forward.
If Sabo had a million chances but wasn't putting any away, then I'd see a problem with him.
And that's clearly not the case.

 

I am here

 

I think that may be what people are questioning. I personally wouldn't call Chicago a poor team. And I can't consider a draw at Toyota park anything but great at this point in the season.

 

Sabo is not without talent, he will always score goals because he will always be there or there abouts to get the tap-ins and capitalise on mistakes and he is not completely useless as Campo turned out to be. Sabo has even had two better than average games. But Sabo is a plodder a good plodder but not the best. He lacks flair, imagination and subtlety, I've yet to see him shoot with any disguise in the shot. He would playt better running off another big forward but that's not the way we play with Espy having a free hand to seek out and exploit the opposition weakness. Let's go one way or the other forward with skill and guile, moving off the defender to make space for the shot or a battering ram to go through the defender - any thing but this slightly better than mediocre unimaginative approach

Now for the easy bit [I don't think] finding a replacement

 

exceptions will always happen but never be common place