Remark* The honourable mention for players are too hard to be ranked in basic rating due to career effects of disappearances . The Greatest Goalkeepers of All-Time 1. Lev Yashin 2. Dino Zoff 3. Gianluigi Buffon 4. Gordon Banks 5. Peter Schmeichel 6. Ricardo Zamora 7. Sepp Maier 8. Oliver Kahn 9. Peter Shilton 10. Rinat Dasaev 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Ubaldo Fillol 13. Ladislao Mazurkiewicz 14. Frantisek Planicka 15. Patt Jennings 16. Vladimir Beara 17. Gilmar 18. Iker Casillas 19. Harald Schumaccher 20. Edwin Van Der Sar 21. Michel Preud'Homme 22. Jean Marie-Pfaff 23. Giampiero Combi 24. Jurgen Croy 25. Gyula Grosics 26. Walter Zenga 27. Rudolph Hiden 28. Jose Luis Chilavert 29. Jose Angel Iribar 30. Ivo Viktor 31. Roque Maspoli 32. Neville Southall 33. Andreas Kopke 34. Hans Tilkowski 35. Antonio Ramallets 36. Ray Clemence 37. Ronnie Hellstrom 38. Gianluca Pagluica 39. Frank Swift 40. Thomas Ravelli 41. Samuel Hardy 42. Andoni Zubuzarreta 43. Jan Tomaszewski 44. Peter Cech 45. Hans Van Breukelen 46. Luis Arconada 47. Evhen Rudakov 48. Emerson Leao 49. Enrico Albertosi 50. Walter Zeman Honourable Mention : Bert Trautmann Substitution List Thomas N'kono Antonio Carbajal Sergio Livingstone Angelo Peruzzi Rogelio Dominguez Alexei Khomitch Villiam Schrojf Fabien Barthez Andres Mazali Lorenzo Buffon Harry Gregg Claudio Taffarel Antonio Roma Francesco Toldo Giuliano Sarti Jan Van Beveren _________________________________________________________ The Greatest Central Defenders of All-Time 1. Franz Beckenbauer 2. Franco Baresi 3. Bobby Moore 4. Gaetano Scirea 5. Daniel Passarella 6. Elais Figueroa 7. Giuseppe Bergomi 8. Alessandro Nesta 9. Ruud Krol 10. Jose Santamaria 11. Fabio Cannavaro 12. Jose Nasazzi 13. Hector Chumpitaz 14. Jurgen Kohler 15. Alan Hansen 16. Domingos Da Guia 17. Jacinto Quincoces 18. Marcell Desailly 19. Laurent Blanc 20. Ronald Koeman 21. Velibor Vasovic 22. Billy Wright 23. Karlheinz Forster 24. Claudio Gentile 25. Fernando Hierro 26. Jaap Stam 27. Ciro Ferrara 28. Albert Shesternev 29. Oscar Ruggeri 30. Marius Tresor 31. Murtaz Khurtsilava 32. Virginio Rosetta 33. Gheorghe Popescu 34. Alessandro Costacurta 35. Jan Popluhar 36. Germano 37. Robert Perfumo 38. Luis Perreira 39. Morten Olsen 40. Niel Flanklin 41. Reinhold Munzenburg 42. John Terry 43. Willi Schulz 44. Robert Jonquet 45. Nemanja Vidic 46. Hans Jurgen Dorner 47. Wladislaw Zmuda 48. Pietro Vierchowod 49. Bruno Pezzey 50. Pietro Rava Honourable Mention : Matthias Sammer, Bob Crompton Substitution List Humberto Coelho Cor Van De Hart Ernst Happel Roberto Ayala Rune Bratseth Rio Ferdinand Wolfgang Weber Alexandru Apolzan Toni Adams Severino Minelli Sami Hyypia Lucio _____________________________________________________________ The Greatest Defensive Laterals of All-Time 1. Paolo Maldini 2. Giacinto Facchetti 3. Nilton Santos 4. Djalma Santos 5. Carlos Alberto 6. Karlheinz Schnellinger 7. Lilian Thuram 8. Berti Vogts 9. Roberto Carlos 10. Andreas Brehme 11. Javier Zanetti 12. Antononio Cabrini 13. Marcos Cafu 14. Branco Zebec 15. Silvio Marzolini 16. Paul Breitner 17. Paul Janes 18. Renzo De Vecchi 19. Manuel Amoros 20. Leovegildo Junior 21. Hans Peter Briegel 22. Manfred Kaltz 23. Leandro Ferreira 24. Sergio Cervato 25. Jose Antonio Camacho 26. Bixente Lizarazu 27. Danny Mcgrain 28. Victor Rodriguez Andrade 29. Eddie Hapgood 30. Jorginho 31. Eric Gerets 32. Branko Stankovic 33. Joan Segarra 34. Marinho Chagas 35. Carlos Sosa 36. Maicon 37. Tarcisio Burgnich 38. Rafael Gordillo 39. Fahrudin Jusufi 40. Luigi Allemandi 41. Jimmy Armfield 42. Gianluca Zambrotta 43. Nelinho 44. Luis Eyzaguirre 45. Ray Wilson 46. Anatoliy Demyanenko 47. Vladimir Bessonov 48. Erik Nilsson 49. Christian Panucci 50. Schubert Gambetta Honourable Mention : Armand Swartenbroeks Substitution List Erich Juskowiak Horst-Dieter Hottges Orvar Bergmark Francisco Arce Arthur Correia Roger Marche Stefan Reuter Mauro Tassotti Wim Suurbier Phil Neal Karoly Fogl Josef Fogl Juan Pablo Sorin Daniel Alves Ashley Cole Roger Bryne _____________________________________________________________ The Greatest Defensive Midfielders of All-Time 1. Lothar Matthaus 2. Frank Rijkaard 3. Jose Leandro Andrade 4. Ernest Ocwirk 5. Luis Monti 6. Fernando Redondo 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Horst Szymaniak 9. Jean Tigana 10. Marco Tardelli 11. Jose Pirri 12. Nestor Rossi 13. Varely Voronin 14. Roy Keane 15. Dave Mackay 16. Toninho Cerezo 17. Patrice Vieira 18. Danilo Alvim 19. Edgar Davids 20. Graeme Souness 21. Zlatko Cajkovski 22. Josef Smistik 23. Clodoaldo 24. Mikael Essien 25. Joseph Guardiola 26. Karel Pesek Kada 27. Uli Stielike 28. Claude Makelele 29. Zito 30. Romeo Benetti 31. Antonio Rattin 32. David Meiklejohn 33. Jose Carlos Bauer 34. Didier Deschamps 35. Mauro Silva 36. Svatopluk Pluskal 37. Nils Middelboe 38. Emlyn Hughes 39. Michele Andreolo 40. Ernest Needham 41. Emerson Ferreira 42. Carlos Dunga 43. Ivan Gennaro Gattuso 44. Esteban Cambiasso 45. Andreas Kupfer 46. Alex Raisbeck 47. Arie Haan 48. Luis Fernandez 49. Jose Velasquez 50. Alemao Honourable Mention : Duncan Edwards Substitution List Ernesto Lazzatti Franky Van Der Elst John Greig Victor Munoz Javier Mascherano Attilio Ferraris Diego Simeone Victor Benitez Emmanouel Petit ___________________________________________________________ The Greatest Central Midfielders of All-Time 1. Didi 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Jozsef Bozsik 5. Falcao 6. Josef Masopust 7. Gerson 8. Xavi Hernandez 9. Willem Van Hanegem 10. Johan Neeskens 11. Danny Blanchflower 12. Fritz Szepan 13. Mario Coluna 14. Igor Netto 15. Paul Breitner 16. Gerhard Hanappi 17. Bryan Robson 18. Billy Bremner 19. Steven Gerrard 20. Herbert Prohaska 21. Andrea Pirlo 22. Juan Sebastian Veron 23. Giancarlo Antognoni 24. Jim Baxter 25. Osvaldo Ardiles 26. Stefan Effenberg 27. Michael Ballack 28. Frank Lampard 29. Johnny Giles 30. Clarence Seedorf 31. Zvonimir Boban 32. Branko Oblak 33. Karl Koller 34. Colin Bell 35. Wilfried Van Moer 36. Carlos Valderrama 37. Manuel Fleitas Solich 38. Bo Larsson 39. Alan Ball 40. Paulo Cesar Carpegiani 41. Vladimir Muntyan 42. Dino Sani 43. Luis Enrique 44. Luis Del Sol 45. Xabi Alonso 46. Rainer Bonhof 47. Walter Nausch 48. Gaizka Mendieta 49. Paolo Sousa 50. Soren Lerby Substitution List Jan Molby Demetrio Albertini Agostino Di Bartolomeo Claudio Marangoni Pablo Bengoechea Rene Petit Gary Mcalister Eusebio Castigliano ____________________________________________________________ The Greatest Wingers of All-Time 1. Garrincha 2. George Best 3. Stanley Matthews 4. Jairzinho 5. Dragan Dzajic 6. Luis Figo 7. Francisco Gento 8. Tom Finney 9. Julinho 10. Kurt Hamrin 11. Zoltan Czibor 12. Raimundo Orsi 13. Kalman Konrad 14. Felix Loustau 15. Ryan Giggs 16. Bruno Conti 17. Helmut Rahn 18. Coen Moulijn 19. Omar Corbatta 20. Alan Morton 21. Jimmy Johnstone 22. Carlos Peucelle 23. Estanlislao Basora 24. Billy Meredith 25. Pepe 26. Canhoteiro 27. Grzegorz Lato 28. Piet Kaizer 29. Juan Joya 30. Karl Aage Praest 31. Enrique Garcia 32. Hans Schafer 33. David Beckham 34. Giampiero Boniperti 35. Lennart Skoglund 36. Rene Houseman 37. Robert Pires 38. Antonin Puc 39. Cliff Bastin 40. Leonel Sanchez 41. Amancio Amaro 42. Pierre Littbarski 43. Brian Laudrup 44. Franck Ribery 45. Jose Augusto 46. Franco Causio 47. Cliff Jones 48. David Ginola 49. Jurgen Grabowski 50. Mikhail Meskhi Substitution List John Barnes Arjen Robben Johnny Rep Luis Cubilla Marc Overmars Enrique Hormazabal Cris Waddle Eder Rogerio Pipi Robert Gadocha Billy Liddell Michel Gonzalez Alcides Ghiggia Fernando Chalana Ariel Ortega Paulo Futre Jair Da Costa Augustin Gainza Mario Corso Gino Colaussi Bora Kostic ____________________________________________________________ The Greatest Basic Playmakers Of All-Time 1. Michel Platini 2. Zinedine Zidane 3. Bobby Charlton 4. Rivelino 5. Gianni Rivera 6. Raymond Kopa 7. Nils Liedholm 8. Michael Laudrup 9. Socrates 10. Wolfgang Overath 11. Gheorghe Hagi 12. Gunther Netzer 13. Kazimierz Deyna 14. Juan Roman Riquelme 15. Rui Costa 16. Pavel Nedved 17. Larbi Benbarek 18. Ricardo Bochini 19. Nicolae Dobrin 20. Bernd Schuster 21. Ademir Da Guia 22. Alex James 23. Cesar Cueto 24. Dragan Stojkovic 25. Johnny Haynes 26. Alain Giresse 27. Glenn Hoddle 28. Helmut Haller 29. Liam Brady 30. Dragoslav Sekularac 31. Safet Susic 32. Thomas Haessler 33. Andreas Ineista 34. Paul Scholes 35. Josep Samitier 36. Julio Cesar Romero 37. Paul Gascoigne 38. Andreas Moller 39. Enzo Scifo 40. Wesley Sneijder 41. Cesc Fabrekas 42. Krassimir Balakov 43. Fyordor Cherenkov 44. Joseph Jurion 45. David Kipiani 46. Dimitar Yakimov 47. Ernesto Grillo 48. Lajos Detari 49. Illie Balaci 50. Robert Prosinecki Substitution List David Platt Heinz Flohe Martin Peters Dirceu Gimaraes Asgier Sigurvinsson Miguel Brindisi Antonin Panenka Dirceu Lopes Paolo Cesar Caju Luis De La Fuente Kee Rijvers __________________________________________________________ The Greatest Second Strikers of All-Time 1. Diego Maradona 2. Johan Cruyff 3. Alfredo Di Stefano 4. Zico 5. Jose Manuel Moreno 6. Ruud Gullit 7. Zizinho 8. Adolfo Pedernera 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Fritz Walter 11. Ronaldinho 12. Juan Alberto Schiaffino 13. Rivaldo 14. Omar Sivori 15. Teofilo Cubillas 16. Hector Scarone 17. Sandro Mazzola 18. Enzo Francescoli 19. Zbigniew Boniek 20. Nandor Hidegkuti 21. Antonio Sastre 22. Kenny Dalglish 23. Stjepan Bobek 24. Pedro Rocha 25. Kevin Keegan 26. Bernard Vukas 27. Francesco Totti 28. Kaka 29. Rinaldo Martino 30. Dejan Savicevic 31. Gyorgi Orth 32. Aurelio Gonzalez 33. Allan Simonsen 34. Jair Da Rosa 35. Raich Carter 36. Valentin Ivaov 37. Jan Ceulemans 38. Gunnar Gren 39. Hristo Bonev 40. Roger Piantoni 41. Manuel Ferreira 42. Gianfranco Zola 43. Hugo Sotil 44. Giovanni Ferrari 45. Alberto Terry 46. Rajko Mitic 47. Jose Piendibene 48. Karl Decker 49. Igor Belanov 50. Jorge Alberto Gonzalez Honourable Mention : Walter Gomez Substitution List Wilf Mannion Abedi Pele Angel Romano Klaus Allofs Youri Djorkaeff Ivor Allchurch Norberto Mendez Jari Litmanen Ermindo Onega Tibor Nyilasi Osei Kofi Dorval Edvaldo Dida Luliu Bodola Roberto Mancini Willy Van De Kuijlen Peter Palotas Hector Rial Humberto Maschio Henning Jensen _________________________________________________________ The Greatest Forwards of All-Time 1. Pele 2. Ferenc Puskas 3. Eusebio 4. Giuseppe Meazza 5. Roberto Baggio 6. Matthias Sindelar 7. Karlheinz Rummenigge 8. Leonidas Da Silva 9. Lionel Messi 10. Cristiano Ronaldo 11. Gyorgi Sarosi 12. Laszlo Kubala 13. Thierry Henry 14. Hristo Stoichkov 15. Tostao 16. Florian Albert 17. Dennis Bergkamp 18. Luigi Riva 19. Ademir De Menezes 20. Oleg Blokhin 21. Raul Gonzalez 22. George Weah 23. Angel Labruna 24. Paul Van Himst 25. Faas Wilkes 26. Rob Rensenbrink 27. Manuel Seoane 28. Rene Pontoni 29. Gyula Zsengeller 30. Mario Kempes 31. Ferenc Bene 32. Ernest Willimowski 33. Alessandro Del Piero 34. Bebeto 35. Ernest Kuzorra 36. Oldrich Nejedly 37. Alberto Ohaco 38. Eric Cantona 39. Anton Schall 40. Zlatan Ibrahimovic 41. Abe Lenstra 42. David Villa 43. Preben Elkjaer 44. Hughie Gallagher 45. Max Morlock 46. Emilio Butragueno 47. Georgi Asparuhov 48. Severino Varela 49. Ernest Pohl 50. Lajos Tichy Honurable Mention : Grigory Fedotov, Milos Milutinovic, Eduard Streltsov Substitution List ********** Amarildo Henri Coppens Milan Galic Giuseppe Signori Quarentinha Vivian Woodward Andre Abegglen Wayne Rooney Charlie Buchan Bernard Voorhoof Alejandro Morera Francisco Varallo Predrag Mijatovic Nikita Simonyan John Angelo Hansen Dragan Jovanovic Istvan Nyers Salif Keita Stephan Dobay Stephan Chapuisat Jupp Heynckes __________________________________________________________ The Greatest Target Strikers of All-Time 1. Gerd Muller 2. Ronaldo 3. Marco Van Basten 4. Romario 5. Sandor Kocsis 6. Uwe Seeler 7. Gunnar Nordahl 8. Arsenio Erico 9. Dixie Dean 10. Josef Bican 11. Gabriel Batistuta 12. Jimmy Greaves 13. Just Fontaine 14. Telmo Zarra 15. Ferenc Deak 16. Ruud Van Nistelrooy 17. Alberto Spencer 18. Andriy Shevchenko 19. Denis Law 20. Silvio Piola 21. Jurgen Klinsmann 22. Hugo Sanchez 23. Jean Pierre Papin 24. Fernando Peyroteo 25. Imre Schlosser 26. Luis Artime 27. Gary Lineker 28. Arthur Friedenreich 29. Christian Vieri 30. Isidro Langara 31. Careca 32. Wlodzimerz Lubanski 33. Jimmy Mcgrory 34. Hernan Crespo 35. Alan Shearer 36. Rudi Voller 37. Jose Altafini 38. Franz Binder 39. Samuel Eto'o 40. Ian Rush 41. Pedro Petrone 42. David Trezeguet 43. Hans Krankl 44. Reinaldo 45. Jose Sanfilippo 46. Teodoro Fernandez 47. Atilio Garcia 48. Heleno De Freitas 49. Davor Suker 50. Nat Lofthouse Honourable Mention : Tommy Lawton, Paolo Rossi Substitution List Raymond Braine Michael Owen Didier Drogba Darko Pancev Richard Hofmann Bernabe Ferreyra Roberto Bettega Jozsef Takacs Stan Mortensen Herminio Masantonio Roberto Dinamite Fernando Morena Coutinho Thadee Cisowski Harald Nielsen Jose Aguas Pauli Jorgensen Beb Bakhuys Ferenc Szusza Patrick Kluivert Vava Henrik Larsson Ruud Geels Filippo Inzaghi Diego Forlan
Props on your historical knowledge, but how you rank current day players against each other remains highly bizarre. Why Hernan Crespo over Samuel Eto'o, Rui Costa over Pavel Nedved? Ballack is better than Lampard?
I rank base on cumulatove performance in all level of competition (Domestic Club, International Club and National Team). For deep detail please visit http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=248905. Eto'o is more successful but I consider ability level of Crespo is clearly better. Nedved is better than Rui Costa in club career but not by much while Rui Costa is signifiantly better than Nedved in NT career.
Why is Henry ranked above the likes of Labruna and Blokhin? And as said earlier, I also disagree with the gap between Henry and Bergkamp. Furthermore, It is peculiar that you use a point system to rank players from the 1950s of which hardly any material exist. Take for example the Brazil 1950 team with Jair, Ademir and Zizinho. In works I've read it is difficult to differentiate between the respective qualities of these three, although Zizinho has the greatest status, let alone that you can devise a point system to rank them vis-a-vis other greats of other eras.
Ademir scored just 75 percent in regional Brazilian league as a center forward in the 1940s is way not impressive, is one of evidences he is not in the level of Zizinho who is traditionally regarded by many Brazilian experts as the better player than Rivelino. Labruna scored just 60 percent in Argentinian league and 17 goals in 37 games for Argentina is a lot lower than standard ofArgentinian strikers at that time (Pontoni 19 goals in 19 games in example) Bergkamp is a lot slower than Henry. His scoring record with Arsenal is way too low due to the fact that scoring is his main duty. He also have a failure years in the period he should reach his prime at Inter Milan while Henry was failure at Juventus due to be not play in his best position. Henry is a better technical player and slightly a better asister than Blokhin.
Could you post your detailed breakdown for each of those players please? Also how do you plan to apply your 'Importance Degree Of Skills For Football Roles' to player who played in the 30s?
Like I said every list is controversial to certain degrees ... I gave Dearman (and others like Comme ... with their own lists ) full credits for his effort in research and time
I think Serginho fromer Milan & Sao Paulo player deserves a mention in "The Greatest Defensive Laterals of All-Time" list.
Who had higher averages in his era? True. The problem is that forwards do sometimes more than just scoring goals. Bergkamp said during WC1994, when he played well and journalists asked why he played so bad at Inter, "I'm a creator and not a goal-scorer, I prefer to seek the combination and through-pass instead of dribbling and poaching." For the record: I do not see Henry as belonging to a lower class than Bergkamp, but this is again way to simple. As second-striker in a 4-4-2 system it depends much on the type of striking partner one has. There are types who let you score goals and there are types who let you make assists. This is inconsistent reasoning. Henry was until his career at Arsenal a winger and played hence not out of position. An argument can also be made that Bergkamp played at Inter out of position too by the way. When he moved to Arsenal, he hinted towards that. On the other hand, many critics had some doubts about the mental stability of Bergkamp. For example, Bergkamp complained that the Italian press invaded his private-life and this was in turn seen as a sign of psychological instability. Blokhin was way more important for his teams I think.
No more higher scoring stats doesn't mean player is the very top-class. However, Ferenc Deak scored in 1.35 goal ratio in hungarian league is way much better. The 1940s Brazilian strikers are not much outstanding except Heleno De Freitas (0.89 Goal ratio and playerd in the same league and same era, is still clearly better than Ademir). In the era of Ademir, football was played by just twice defenders and none of Brazilians defenders in that period are not become a famous legend finally. His goal ratio in overall club career is actually 72 percent (365 goals in 506 games). He played as left-winger just a season in 1940 so that year didn't significantly impact to his goalscoring record. Ademir is an absolute legend in Brazil national team but his prime is not long enough to rate so high. I understand so why I have set table of importance skill of football role. In overall rating, Henry is clearly better in skill. Anyway, I actually rate players base on performance. Many superior players in skill are ranked lower than group of inferior skillful players. It doesn't much matter when Bergkamp scored not many goals for Arsenal team due to devisibility of the team but If Bergkamp scored more goals, Arsenal is surely a much better record of result. The strong reason of Bergkamp failure years is the standard of Series A in his time that majoirt of attacking foreigners were not successful. People are right to believe Henry could be failure as well if played in that same league and the same time. However, to be the greatest, you have to avoid the situation you are disadvatange as possiblea and in contrary try to player in the most suitable circumstance of yours, This is a basic key to acheive in every career. For their nation, I think Blokhin is more outstanding but it is partly because surround by lower-class teammates. Honesty, I think Blokhin beat defenders with his speed very much while Henry could do it well in both speed combine with technique. Puck, I am very curious about level of amateur Dutch football league in Abe Lenstra era. Did Lenstra play football just as a hobby ? and he played as inside-forward or center-forward in club and NT career ?
Details of skill and performance rating are actually posted for top 50 players in seven category. You can find the completed series in http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=251095 This is the greatest ever list http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=247416 The 1930s players are applied in 'Importance Degree Of Skills For Football Roles' by "Circumstance Prevention"
Strongly disagree. Again, Henry was his equal but he was not equally skillful. Funnily, when Henry was asked what the best player was with whom he played with, he answered Bergkamp and not Zidane, Messi or Ronaldinho. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zmnCjkmT2A&feature=player_detailpage#t=717s"]Thierry Henry in New York - SSN special report - part 1 - YouTube[/ame] (11:58) This is of the category "if Buffon had stopped all balls then..." The fact is though that Bergkamp was promised that Inter would go on to play a more attacking concept, that is why he choose Internazionale. That promise was broken, among other reasons. You're free to call it a failure, I agree, although some softening things can be said. In the end, Bergkamp was axed in Milan because he scored not enough goals and they used him as a striker, but he wasn't a striker. And had a bad relationship with fellow attacker Ruben Sosa too.
Interesting list, and props on the effort even though I do not agree with quite few instances of ordering. Also one question, how did you differentiate between the forwards and the second strikers?
Actually I would be interested to see what numbers you used for Crespo v Eto'o and Nedved v Rui Costa. And how Dani Alves doesn't make the Top 50 fullbacks also remains a mystery to me. But Jorginho sits there at #30 - don't get manipulated by Brazilian posters propaganda hatin' on Dani Alves for never playing well in Brazil. Jorginho was rated IC/WC once each by Kicker during his time in Germany, meanwhile Dani Alves is among the top rated PLAYERS (not just defenders) in La Liga by Don Balon for several years, makes ESM team of the month nearly each time, puts up amazing offensive stats and is one of the most important players for one of the most successful teams of the last decades.
Where did you read that? As far as I know, Dani Alves has overtaken Maicon on that position and that was no easy feat. Maicon was the starter for Brazil in 2010WC. Of course, Maicon has also declined a bit in shape.
With 'Brazilian propaganda' I was talking about a few Brazilian posters on xtratime who seem to praise Jorginho without any particular reasons and bash Dani Alves.
You might be aware that Don Balón got discontinued a few months ago and they took the site down. That's the only year I could still find now. http://web.archive.org/web/20071106...alon.com/front/default.asp?OPT=RER&RERID=1964 More to come.
I am always objective opinions to overrate technical defender lack of high level defensive skill. In example, when people said Roberto Carlos is by far better than Cannavaro, it is not fair because they will rate technical skill too much better than defensive skill for defenders (if rate this between attackers and defenders, it is more reasonable). Daniel Alves' defensive quality is too bad, Barca lost many goals due to his loose position and he doesn't have level of physcial strong a great tackle like many defenders have. His offensive performance is very good. The same case as Serginho who is very good in technique but he is not a Milan legend finally because wasn't good in his main duty.
I thought you rate players based on performance, not on how wellrounded they are. The same old nonsense that stays alive. Just because a player is beyond amazing offensively and prone to mistakes at defense doesn't mean his overall play can't be more effective than a player who is good at D and O. You can't just rate each wingbacks D and O, add the numbers together and deterimine that way who was better. Total nonsense. Doesn't it make sense that the offense that someone like Roberto Carlos or Dani Alves provide outweight the minimal better defense of Jorginho? They is a reason that Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves are/were integral parts on multiple CL winning teams and Jorginho was just some pretty good player one some decent - good clubs. Yeah I see people calling me out and saying it's easy to shine for that FCB team. Remember where Alves played before? Sevilla, two UEFA Cups earning MVP honors as a RIGHT BACK. Also the same case for Serginho? Are you freakin kidding me? He has 10 caps ffs naming him alongside Dani Alves is a disgrace. I realize there is some active player stigma looking at Messi's and CR's ranking, maybe you'll understand his greatness when he's retired.
Dearman you should consider Karl Sesta, Adolf Vogl, lessen the gap between Sindelar and Schall, downrank Prohaska imo.
Roberto Carlos is not a good defensive player but he is still strong enough as a defender. Daniel Alves' qualification should be more midfielder and anyway he played as defender. For the primary qualification of defender, Alves doesn't have any top-class skill are position, tackle and even strength - stamina. . I am not consider just a few mistake on him but overall performance in defensive game is not done effectively enough. Jorginho is clearly much better than Daniel Alves in defensive quality. The same case between Daniel Alves and Serginho is reffered to style of player not overall performance.
Would you care to reply to any of the points I made other than going on with your 'Dani Alves not good in defensive ability' nonsense? Do you want to find out who really was the better player, helping teams to win or continue to use your made up rating criteria that couldn't be farther from reality how to properly assess the effectiveness of a player?
As you are typing this kind of sentence, you are being base on your own criteria as well and it is much far from reality because you are not even explain your criteria enough. Surely my criteria is in the reality because it is considerd base on level of importance in each duty of players' position. You refer that Alves help the team to win but football is a teamwork and Alves is several times a part for Barcelona losing goal so you have to consider player base on individual performance not result of game. If Alves played in 3-5-2 system, he would have a better rating but in the 4-4-2 system, defensive duty is still a main function of his his duty. To clarify the rating, Alves is still defender in 4-4-2 system and I separate to ratio defensive 60 offensive 40. In case of wing-back in 3-5-2 system, it will be 50-50. I give 7.8 point for Alves defensive quality and 8 in offensive quality and Total Point 7.9. In example compare to Eric Gerets who was a full-back, I give defensive 75 percent (8.7 point) and offensive 25 percent (7 Point) Total Point 8.3. Some rate technical defender to be better than natural defender as the offensive skills are always considered to be higher level than defensive skill but in the same logic, if defensive skill is less important and defender likes Alves and R.Carlos are not perform very well in defensive game despite it is considered less level of skill, so this is an exchangement for their advanatbge in offensive quality as well.
My criteria is pretty simple. How would any teams results change if you'd replace Player X by Player Y? Hard to tell but looking mostly at performance factoring the circumstances and to some degree overall skill and achievments might give you a hint. Naturally watching them play and how the player is viewed by the football world during his era is also usefull. And that gap in all of those is enourmous in favour of Dani Alves. Could you cite examples or statistics that lead you to that conclussion other than 'the general opinion of the public'? Also ahe you seen enough full games of Jorginho that you are in the position to say that same does not apply to him? Well there lies the problem. You can't just apply a simple formula and expect good results. Especially not with the kind of information that are available about those players. What happend to your Phenomal Class - World Class - International Class approach? Made much more sense. No hard feeling Dearman, you're doing a great job overall.