I think you're the one missing the point. I never said I was smarter than the architects. They're obviously the experts. What I'm saying is that it is not going to happen for $50 million. I don't care who the experts are. If they build this for that price, I'll eat my hat and contribute my full allegiance to MCFC and buy season tickets even though I live 1,500 miles away. Just because the experts say it's possible at this price point doesn't mean it is.
That's right, but other posters in this thread and elsewhere don't seem to be able to grasp that. Those people were the ones I was talking about. That's a completely different discussion from the one that OG20 and others were having, claiming that the plan was impossible architecturally. Hell, I have my doubts about the financial estimates (and the general financial viability of the whole expansion bid) myself. It's just stupid for people to pretend that they "know" that it can't be done, when it's pretty obvious that they're just talking out their asses. THAT is the point I'm making.
Hell I am a computer engineer, not a civil engineer, but some people here are. Rosetti may have done that rendering, but as i said some knowleadgable people here doubted it. He have never (except for OG20) doubted Rossetti's pedegree, but we have serious doubt that they would have made that rendering and of course budgeted the project at that price point. That is what you fail at understanding
In case anyone is wondering why this old plan is popping back up in the news, there is a story posted on another thread here. The owners are going before the Pontiac city council to ask for a tax break....... "A tax credit is being sought by the owners of the Silverdome for what could be the first step in the facilities redesign for a Major League Soccer franchise."
If they can't afford the current property taxes, I'm pretty sure they can't afford the 50 mil, let alone what it will really cost to get this fantasy off the ground.
With Pontiac being completely broke and trying to sell off everything in sight, I don't know that a tax break is in the cards at this point. Now, if an emergency financial manager is appointed, who knows how that will change things.
1) Doesn't Pontiac already have an EFM? 2) Something tells me you're not exactly warm to Snyder's plan on that front.
1) No idea, sorry. 2) You are correct, sir, I'm not a big fan of dictators being appointed to subvert the will of the people.
Oakland Press: "Officials to mull request for Silverdome tax relief as owners seek facility upgrades" http://theoaklandpress.com/articles/2012/03/15/news/local_news/doc4f60f4e4c05e6710411956.txt "presentation at 3 p.m. Thursday, March 15, at Pontiac City Hall." Detroit News "Silverdome owner wants 5-year tax freeze to overhaul arena" http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...-owner-wants-5-year-tax-freeze-overhaul-arena
I thought this guy was nearly a billionaire? But he needs a tax payment freeze to get his "Fifty Million" dollar renovation done? Someone should find the property on the Oakland County Assessor's website and see what the annual property taxes are.
oakland press article: "The city receives $95,000 a year in taxes for the property, which has a taxable value of $1.3 million and a true value of about $2.5 million, Schimmel said. The amount taxed on the facility is half of its taxable value. The abatement would keep the property's taxes frozen at the estimated $95,000 a year, Mankopf said." detroit news article: "Triple Properties currently pays about $80,000 a year in property taxes for the Silverdome, Mankopf said. Under the tax abatement, the tax amount would not increase while the developer does major upgrades to the facility, he said."
From the Detroit News article: The new owner has a long-term vision of radically redesigning the Silverdome. Triple Properties eventually would like to deflate the domed roof and create a hole to let in sunlight. It would also like to split its interior into two levels of different-size arenas, including one that would be the home of a Major League Soccer team. "But that is not with the five-year plan" of the tax abatement, Mankopf said. Nobody wants a Detroit team in MLS more than I do, but I'm beginning to think the owner does not have nearly the net worth to accomplish even a fraction of what he's talking about doing.
Wouldn't deflating the roof also save him the $1+ million per year it costs to keep the air pressure up? I read somewhere that it's their biggest expense. So if they don't have to pay taxes and cut expenses way back they could stop right there and hold on while the SE Michigan real estate market continues to improve. Call me a cynic but it's the first thing that popped into my mind. I always felt the Silverdome would come down sooner rather than later.
That's always been THE question, but he's always also said that he isn't interested in attracting outside investors because he didn't need them. I'm not sure why he would have floated the ambitious remodeling plan if he didn't have the ability to pay for it, when a less costly plan would have done the same thing.
I'm not an expert on this, but I imagine that would take a substantial up-front cost to do that, because it is doubtful the interior of the dome is weatherized for rain and Michigan winters. It probably doesn't have any drainage and such to speak of either. That would happen down the road if/when this plan gets moving, but I doubt the owner wants to pay that now, if he is trying to get help with financing down the road.
As I read things here I am concerned that some of you think this guy is stupid . He didn't make almost a BILLION Dollars. I am going to take out any emotional feelings and say this as a businesswoman: He wants to fix the things in the stadium up. we need to look at this as if we were trying to conduct a deal for ourselves when you buy a house do you not look for any angle to save money? weather you have it or not? I know about you but I do that. I also dont think that a freeze on the taxes are going to give him millions of $$ to renovate the stadium. Look here he wants a freeze because when he completes the reno the building will have increased in value and they just want to keep them low. I also think that this will create jobs and excitement for Pontiac and bring people to the area. If pontiac decides to drive people away from the town then they are Idiots again. They let the Lions leave and unfortunately they are dissing another huge supporter of pontiac. Remember people he is not asking for Cash he is asking for a freeze! I support the efforts and think whatever they do there it will bring people. I always hear people saying oh he is trying to bad things but all I see is other events popping up, good or bad its more then what Pontiac did with it. He also has been paying the maintenance and the cost to run the place for a few years now I think he is committed. I just get angry when people just see things one way and not try to see the whole story.
Silverdome tax break request given cold shoulder Published: Friday, March 16, 2012 http://theoaklandpress.com/articles/2012/03/16/news/local_news/doc4f62720815218850650323.txt Pontiac unlikely to give Silverdome fix-up plan a tax break, EM says March 15, 2012 at 5:52 pm http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...e-Silverdome-fix-up-plan-a-tax-break--EM-says ouch. The OakPress article is much more substantial than the DetNews one, but here are some points: Pontiac's EMF was expecting a fully-prepared presentation. All he says he got was a sheet of paper listing improvement needs. Is there a rift between Silverdome folk and Ultimate Soccer folk? George came out against the proposal, and, yes, he qoutes bathrooms in the discussion. There was distaste against giving these kinds of tax breaks/freezes just to bring parts of the building up to code. The article implies that when the S'Dome was sold, either the EMF or the city inspectors let some of the code enforcements slide; and if that was because Pontiac was in such a hole they needed just to dispatch themselves of the 'Dome without worrying about these kind of "particulars." I'm a bit concerned that the "triple-arena" pictures posted by MCS is adding some confusion to the issue. I guess that this tax break has nothing to do about the MLS bid, but how much structual improvements should be made on a building which would then be retro-fitted for three purposes. Plus, the "main concourse" (metioned in the article) would not be used in the soccer-stadium piece (but would be used in the current five-year plan). To actually get the tax break, a second public hearing needs to take place. That second hearing may never happen.
They ultimate guy is probably upset because he thinks the silverdome competes against them didn't buy the place himself .