NJ Devis are taking another fall. The New York Post's Josh Kosman reports the team is on the verge of bankruptcy after missing a loan payment on September 1. The team’s financial hardships could also affect Newark’s four-year-old Prudential Center, the Devils’ home arena. Team-owned Devils Arena Entertainment operates the $375 million building and guarantees the Devils’ loans and, therefore, is in danger of also going bankrupt. Two issues are complicating matters. First, principal owner Jeff Vanderbeek and co-owner Ray Chambers, each of whom owns 47 percent of the franchise, are on the outs. Chambers, through his Brick City Hockey unit, has been trying to sell his non-controlling stake in the franchise for a year. But the efforts of Chambers and Moag & Co., a Baltimore investment bank, have been unsuccessful, despite, a source said, cutting their asking price 20 percent to $200 million. Forbes last year estimated the Devils were worth $218 million, No. 11 in the league, down 2 percent from 2010. The team is ranked No. 25 in attendance. Second, Vanderbeek’s relationship with the lenders is as frosty as the rink surface at The Rock, as the arena is known. The Devils’ past-due loan payment of roughly $100 million is owed to a CIT-led lending group. Devils Arena Entertainment owes $180 million, the source said. The Devils have struggled to bring people through the gates, plus they have loans on the still-new Prudential Center. It's a recipe that has led to the franchise losing money. Plus, minority owner Ray Chambers has been looking to sell his 47-percent interest in the organization after a falling out with primary owner Jeff Vanderbeek. It doesn't paint a very stable picture for the franchise's future.
Re: Quebec Devils??? I think there is a long road to go before they become the Quebec Devils. The Dallas Stars are in bankruptcy right now and aren't moving anywhere. They would first be looking for a new owner, and if nobody showed up, only then would Quebec be brought into the picture.
Re: Quebec Devils??? The Coyotes woudl be more likely to wind up there than either the Devils or the Stars.
Re: Quebec Devils??? Not to be an a-hole to fans of the Coyotes, but I would love nothing more than for that to happen. The arena financing is in place in Quebec, an arena sponsor is in place and wants to operate an NHL team. Surely it's more of a question of when than if at this point.
Re: Quebec Devils??? Got to feel bad for the fans of the team who lose it, especially in a case where the ownership has done a poor job or just gets greedy, so I don't want to pile on them either. Still, it makes a lot more sense for a team to be in Quebec than in a place where ice is only something that you put in a drink. I think the most telling sign is that they kept Winnipeg in the Southeast Division, most likely because they will have to do another division shuffle when the Coyotes move, possibly after this season.
Re: Quebec Devils??? The difference between the Coyotes and the Thrashers is that Bettman and the suits in New York now have their pride and reputation on the line for that club. When Moyes put the team into bankruptcy and tried to scam a way to sell it to Balsillie, a guy that the NHL did not want to have a team, Bettman and the NHL suits stepped in. Now their name is on that issue. If Phoenix fails, moves, relocates, Bettman and the suits will have a black mark on them, they failed. I think there is a lot of pride and reputation being put in that situation and I think that's why they will go on to the end to keep the team there. Winnipeg in a sense benefitted from that situation. Well sort of, since they were getting a relocating team anyway. The Thrashers were in trouble. Ownership wanted out, but of course, they did it the right way. They called in to the NHL and said, "we're done, we're out." They didn't sneak around and try to skip out without the NHL offices knowing. so the league is already going to the end to save Phoenix, throwing everything they can at that problem. They have nothing left, they can't afford to save Atlanta. They let them go because they haven't put their name on the fiasco, and frankly they had nothing left with which to save them with. I would be fairly surprised if Phoenix moved. I think the NHL and Bettman will go to their proverbial graves to keep that team there. It will be hard and difficult, but I really think they don't want to have that loss in their column. I think Winnipeg was kept in the southeast because the schedule had already been made, and major realignment can't be done in one month.
Re: Quebec Devils??? Assuming no other teams move I would like Winnipeg and Nashville to switch divisions.
Re: Quebec Devils??? The Eastern Conference would rather Detroit and even Columbus. Word on the street is that they absolutely do not want the central time zone in their conference, despite Nashville making the most geographical sense. As a Red Wings fan I'm really hoping we get the move, but the league seems more keen on saving Nashville or Columbus than letting a financially stable club like Detroit make the move. Should Detroit or Columbus move, the easy move would be throwing them right into the Southeast, but if they wanna make sense about it, Minnesota should take the new Central spot and Winnipeg should go to the Northwest. Nashville would get right into the Southeast if it's them, though the seemingly more likely Columbus or Detroit scenario should logically result in moving New Jersey down to the Southeast (they have a rivalry with Carolina and make the most geographical sense), Boston to the Atlantic, and Detroit/Columbus to the Northeast. That being said, "logic" is a word that should never be used when discussing Bettman.
Re: Quebec Devils??? I'd add that they also own their AHL franchise in Albany. Its a financial disaster. Lowest league attendance in the AHL.
Re: Quebec Devils??? It's looking really gloomy for the Phoenix Coyotes right now. There's a ton of speculation that they're headed to Quebec City at the end of the season.
Re: Quebec Devils??? Mattbro - the Coyotes situation is dire to say the least. Bettman has done numerous cashcalls to the owners. Basically saying everyone pitch in $5 million and when we sell the team, we will pay you back. This is part of the LLC aggrement that the franchises are limited partners too . Well more than one owner is getting concerned about all these cash calls going out and the money never coming back. I mean they will get something soon, but Bettman is hearing a lot of vocalization about this. Also the type of person who owns an NHL team, is not the type of guy/girl who really hears the word "no" too often. They are used to getting their way. Anyways, the Coyotes are at 60% in announced attendance and the revenue stream is down. The Stars are also really down in the dumps too, attendance wise. NJ is another situation entirely. Its taken 30 years, but they have finally figured out there really isn't enough interest in NYC to have 3 teams. Attendance has never been the Devils strong point and Pru Center hasn't exactly cured the issue. What is terrifying to ownership is the ratings for TV and radio though. There was a Devils v Panthers game a couple of years back where the ratings came back and a grand total of 112 people in the entire NY metro area were watching the game.
Re: Quebec Devils??? The Coyotes are essentially done. Quebec, Kansas City, Seattle, remains to be seen, but they aren't staying in Glendale unless the city buys the team and decides to blow $25 million every year. The Stars have a new owner, so they are set for at least the next five to ten years. The Devils it remains to be seen but they have a new stadium, it's going to be a lot to move them.
Re: Quebec Devils??? The scary part Corona, is the city of Glendale may just be crazy enough to do it. They have that huge white elephant of a building, all the land has been zoned around it for an 'entertainment district' and the city is probably looking at filing for municipal bankruptcy if the Coyotes leave. KC is interesting too. I was there for 2 years in the 90's with the Blades and they had some great support. The IHL Blades were an exceptionally well run organization. They had a policy where everyone got a commission. EVERYONE, players, the janitor, the secretary, everyone got 10% of any revenue they could point to and claim as their own. They had these two players who would basically hit the bars and sell tickets, seriously. One of them was the 3rd goalie and a lived locally, he played college hockey and was good in practise situations and in an emergency. The guy would move about 100 tickets a game. The organization was very good about promotions etc. The downside, is the city saw itself as a major league town, the Royals and the Chiefs owned KC. I think an NHL team would have a good couple of years, but would need to start winning soon.
Re: Quebec Devils??? ....and there it is. When you lose? Pittsburgh Buffalo Nashville Chicago Florida Phoenix Atlanta You are threatened with relocation or your building in empty, because the fans don't care. When you win? Pittsburgh Buffalo Chicago You suddenly become the taste of the town or Tampa Carolina Nashville San Jose You develop a solid fan base. Fact is it's about winning Back in 2000, the Columbus Blue Jackets regularly outdrew every Canadian team except the Canadiens and Leafs.
Re: Quebec Devils??? Got this link from another board that I know some people from BS also post on (copying and pasting directly from another poster there): http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/22/another-gta-option-for-nhl So "league sources" are claiming this is the NHL's priority? Sounds pretty promising for QC.
Re: Quebec Devils??? I think this change in league priority (if true) is indicative of a couple things: Cash calls for floating Phoenix are bothersome to owners Winnipeg's show of support indicates a gate based market like QC would be is viable
Re: Quebec Devils??? Once the KHL came into being, they draw off alot of players from the NHL. So then the NHL had to use players that might be better off in the minors & alot of Russian players added depth & class to NHL teams - were gone. Naturally NHL has a different look. It looks more belligerent. Of course, with the economy continuing a long period of decline, NHL hockey tickets are non essential items. Maybe this is what was behind the recent realignment. An attempt to save money by not flying as much. All the NHL stars getting concussions is not helping matters.
Re: Quebec Devils??? In 2000-2001 they did avg 17,457 they were ranked 12th and no they did not regulary outdraw most canadian teams.
Re: Quebec Devils??? My feeling is that Phoenix to Quebec is essentially a done deal and all involved are keeping their traps shut so as not to kill attendance in Glendale during the rest of the season.
Re: Quebec Devils??? I'd venture the guess that Toronto gets a second team. The Quebec arena situation seems stalled. The Leafs are now owned by Rogers, which unlike the Pension Plan, would actually make more money by having two Toronto teams.
Re: Quebec Devils??? They also outdrew Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary. The next year they were 8th and they outdrew all Canadian teams sans Montreal and Toronto. Next year they were 11th and outdrew on average Edmonton, Ottawa and Calgary. Finally in 03-04 they finished 13 Ottawa 14 Edmonton 15 Columbus 16 Calgary
Re: Quebec Devils??? The KHL has drawn away mostly 3rd line Russian players and 5th line North American players. Other than Jagr (who is now back) and Radulov I can't really think of any big names out there. From the KHL leading scorers from last year Patrick Thoresen was a energy line player for the Flyers Roman Cervenka never played in the NHL Sergei Mozyakin was drafted 262th in 2002 (this before the Russian bias) Pavol Demitra (RIP) was not the same player when he left. He clearly was on the downside of his great career. Alexey Morozov might be a top line forward, who knows. Josef Vasicek never cracked 50 points in the NHL. Matt Ellison never played a full NHL season. Mattias Weinhandl couldn't break the Islanders or Wild lineups consistently. None of those guys are selling tickets, period. The creation of the KHL has about zero impact on the NHL's popularity in the US and Canada. The issue for the NHL is that it has several incredibly rich teams driving up the salary cap and floor and a bunch of mid market teams that can't afford to keep up. This means that some teams can reach the cap within budget, like Toronto or the Rangers, but others can't afford it. They either do well within a budget, Nashville, they overspend, New Jersey, they have a sugar daddy, Buffalo, or they just go for the floor and suck, Florida, Phoenix, Atlanta, Carolina etc. Nobody wants to cheer for a loser. Winning teams do well, like Nashville, San Jose, the Kings, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Detroit etc. Shitty teams don't do well, like the above list.
Re: Quebec Devils??? I don't get the impression the Quebec arena situation is stalled - where did you see that? My last info was that the provincial, city and sponsorhip funding is in place for it. And you have the mayor of Quebec basically going on TV and saying "I can't comment, the NHL doesn't like that... wink wink, nudge nudge." My feeling is that there is already a gentleman's agreement with Quebecor and the city of Quebec. Toronto will probably get a second team too, whether that's the relocated Islanders or an expansion franchise (seems like realignment has left a couple of spots open for an even 32). If they were to get the Coyotes, where would they play until the new Markham arena is ready - the Air Canada Center along with the Leafs? Certainly not in Hamilton, unless they want to play in an empty arena for the next three years, as I doubt the people of Hamilton would support a team that has no intention of staying there.
Re: Quebec Devils??? Honestly I don't remember where I read about the arena situation. Take it for what it is, random guy on the internet, haha. I could be totally wrong on that count. Either way both areas have the issue for NEXT season, in that the Coyotes can't be moving in next year. You either have to play in the Copps Coliseum in Hamilton or the Pepsi coliseum in Quebec. Neither option is great. Here is my main thinking though..... The NHL is sort of, ehhhhhhh, fine about going back to Winnipeg or Quebec. It's not a big market, low corporate presence etc. The Leafs were just sold for $1.3 billion. Now think of how much somebody would pay to move the Coyotes to Toronto? Now remember who owns the Coyotes. Here's the best i could find on the arena deal in Quebec. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...ronto-one-step-closer-to-second-NHL-team.html