11/15 US v. Slovenia; the midfield

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TinManJoshua, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. ATLGunner

    ATLGunner Member

    May 8, 2005
    Atlanta
    Do you really have to brag about this in multiple threads?

    I mean;

    You will learn from your own previous quote that sample size is pretty important. Shea had 90 poor minutes, always with the team on its heals, after an exhausting season.

    Fabian looked quite good over 60.

    However, Fabian and Brek are different players. Shea is more of a winger, Johnson was playing as a LM, not a LW, and was playing into space in the center.

    Brek was possibly the most consistent player for the US over Klinsi's first five games. Don't cast him aside after 90 minutes; it's a very typical, nieve BS move. I think we have a good battle on our hands, and I think it will largely depend on the formation Klinsi plays.


    Also, this:

    "I was right by assuming that Johnson would be a better midfielder than Shea simply for that fact that he was brought up through the German system. I don't think you can play for Hoffenheim unless you have elite skills on the ball."


    This is BS at it's worst. With this logic Clint Dempsey is inferior to all Germanicans. If this is your logic, it disqualifies your opinion.
     
  2. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding our shape/system.

    While I understand the value of having a preferred system, and of teaching that system at all levels, I do think there are potential drawbacks. One, you are predictable and easy to prepare for.

    Therefore, I like what JK did tonight. He changed it up, paying a very Bradley like skinny 4-4-2, though it certainly was NOT an empty bucket with Dempsey at CAM. We need to be adaptable in our approach depending on the opponent and situation.

    Another piece of being adaptable is not just playing different systems and formations, but altering the players within a single system. A 4-2-3-1 with Bekcerman/Edu as the #6 and #8 and Bradley as the #10 is very different than one where, say Torres is the #8 and Dempsey is the #10.

    Very nice piece on YA talking to USA youth international Charles Renken. He talks about the German approach at Hoffenheim, where basically players are asked to play every midfield position at some point, so they can view the field from all positions and increase their understanding of the game.

    Here's the link: http://www.yanks-abroad.com/get.php?mode=content&id=8483

    Anyway, it may shed some light on JK' thinking playing Torres/Williams/Bradely wide. Or Edu Nones and Bradley as #8s or #10s. Or Johnson all over the place. Larentowicz as well.
     
  3. tubby_butter

    tubby_butter Member

    Mar 22, 2002
    Providence
    Biggest take-away from me is that the midfield is dying for players to drive forward with the ball to make defenders commit to them in the middle. Bradley was doing this in the first half, and the results were open space all over the field.

    When we get into the static, stand-and-hold-the ball it is so easy for the other team.
     
  4. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Yeah I was starting to be a Shea believer after doubting until quite recently, but the last two games have been very poor.
     
  5. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Showed both the strengths and weakness of the skinny diamond. Beckerman struggled without Edu to shield him, and the pinched in midfield allowed lots of early crosses. But Dempsey supported the forwards well, and there were dangerous channels for the FBs.
     
  6. jaxonmills

    jaxonmills Member+

    Aug 26, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I honestly think Shea's best spot in the formation we played today would be left back. The outside backs were only actual wide players on the field today. I think they get forward on the overlap enough to justify his use there, especially with Cherundolo clearly slowing down on the right.

    I'm also a little worried that we're conceding too much space in front of the DM when using Dempsey as the CAM. That might just be something we have to live with in the 4-3-1-2.
     
  7. jamezyjamez

    jamezyjamez Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Or someone who covers more ground could play that DM role.
     
  8. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Sounds good on paper, but I assume you move Chandler to RB. Now both our outside backs don't know what they're doing.
     
  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fabian looked like a real engine, very good composure. I believe he plays CAM version for his club team.

    MB played well, his passing where either good or terrible. in one sequence he was given a pass from DOLO, mind you MB had room to control the ball but instead decided to move the ball back to himself right in to the hands of the enemy. All he had to do was to stop the ball and turn, this to me shows that he doesn't have the skills and vision to play a smooth passing game.

    Bekerman looks so weak. all he does well is break the opponents game. once he gets the ball he just looks for another fullback to pass back even when he doesn't have any pressure. he is a one dimentional player with lack of speed to boot.

    Shea is too much inloved with the touch line. to keep the defense honest you need to play inside enough to keep them wondering. he looked like a one dimensional player, the kid still green.

    Edu did ok but nothing to write mama about.

    Jones/Rogers game clock killers for this game.
     
  10. jaxonmills

    jaxonmills Member+

    Aug 26, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely. Jones would certainly be a better choice, especially in that formation. Beckerman was less effective defensively without Edu running in front of him, not to mention that Jones brings much more to the table offensively.

    Well, it's something we're going to have to face up to eventually. Shea has shown good 1v1 defending ability. He'd need to get used to playing the offsides trap, but he couldn't be any worse than Chandler. It would allow us to get something resembling our best 11 players on the field. Cherundolo is becoming much less dangerous in attack and showing signs of becoming a defensive liability against faster players. I'm a fan of Cherundolo, but it's just reality.


    ---------------------Howard-------------------
    ---------------Onyewu----Boca---------------
    --Chandler--------------------------Shea-----
    ----------------------Jones--------------------
    --------Bradley---------------Johnson--------
    -------------------Donovan--------------------
    ------------Dempsey-----Altidore-------------


    Switch Dempsey and Donovan if you like. I put Donovan behind the strikers because he covers more ground than Dempsey defensively.
     
  11. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The previous formation played to the strengths of Beckerman and Shea, in many ways two of our least experienced and least multi-dimensional options.

    And we have no one suited to play up top as a single striker, although Jozy has improved some in this area.

    I believe the USA personnel lines up much better in the diamond 4-4-2.

    Dempsey, Bradley and Johnson were key today. Props to them for getting the job done. And Buddle stepped up.

    Again, a 4-4-2 plays to the strengths of our best players in the pool. And, unfortunately (for them) if we continue to utilize this formation, Beckerman and Shea will find themselves odd men out because they don't have the best skillsets in our pool to play in a four man midfield.
     
    Right Foot Planted repped this.
  12. Right Foot Planted

    Aug 11, 2007

    First Half:

    -----------------Howard---------------------
    --------------Goodson-----------------------
    Cherundolo-----------Bocanegra----Chandler-
    ----------------Beckerman------------------
    ----------Bradley---------------------------
    --------------------Dempsey----Johnson----
    --------Buddle------Altidore-----------------


    Second Half:

    -----------------Howard---------------------
    --------------Goodson-----------------------
    Cherundolo-----------Bocanegra----Chandler-
    -----------Bradley---Beckerman--------------
    ------------------------------Johnson-------
    --------------------Dempsey----------------
    --------Buddle------Altidore-----------------

    After Changes (Shea + Edu):

    -----------------Howard--------------------
    Cherundolo--Goodson--Bocanegra--Chandler--
    ---------------Edu---Beckerman-------------
    ----Bradley-----------------------Shea------
    --------------------Dempsey----------------
    ----------------Altidore---------------------

    Notes
    - (before people write it) Bradley, apart from the last ten minutes, did not play as a wide player. He was a central midfielder.
    - Beckerman didn't take much license going forward. As per typical, he occasionally drifts toward the left when he does venture forward.
    - Dempsey played with a largely free role.
    - Johnson continuously countered as an attacker, but tracked back much deeper (than Altidore, Buddle and Dempsey) after a negative turnover.
    - Beckerman was very tightly clustered to the CB pairing throughout most of the match, but especially in the second half, when he seemed to tire.
    * Jones, Williams and Rogers left out of changed diagram because they didn't change the shape more significantly than the context of the game (i.e., last few minutes)
     
  13. Arid_Torpor

    Arid_Torpor Member

    Jun 1, 2006
    Durham, NC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hadn't seen a lot of Fabian Johnson, but he was extremely impressive. Possibly MOTM.

    Bradley played well, and we're better with him in there.

    Shea was off.

    Dempsey was his usual self, I thought.

    Beckerman was a little below standard, but not terrible.

    Edu did what he was supposed to, but I'd avoid sticking that arm up so high in the box.

    Rogers and Jones did what they were supposed to do. :p
     
  14. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing about Beckerman (as could be seen on several plays tonight) is that even if he's in the absolute right position on every play (and I'm not even convinced of that), an opponent can dribble or combine around him pretty easily. The guy is very slow and that will be exposed at high levels.

    Remember when Michael Bradley was crucified in March for getting skinned by Messi on one play? Use those standards looking at how Beckerman handled Birsa and Matavz today. Not pretty once those guys realized he couldn't keep up with them.
     
  15. TFC USA

    TFC USA New Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    2nd time in 17 months we've won against Slovenia 3-2....
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    That's key. Kyle is good enough to make it to the Hex for sure. Good enough to make one of the Top 4 there? Not unlikely. Good enough for the World Cup? You must be kidding me.
     
  17. tio_sam

    tio_sam Member

    Jul 28, 2009
    Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't think I can say anything else but reiterate how impressive Johnson was. This guy looks like he has class. I am excited to have him on our team and hope he grows. There no doubt in my mind that if he stays healthy he will be on our team in Brazil and probably starting.
     
  18. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speaking of being exposed defensively...

    On the first Slovenian goal, the player who did not close down his mark and allowed the initial ball through the US midfield was Michael Bradley, who performed his trademark "get close and squat" defense move. Ball goes into Ljubijankič, who slides it to Matavž, goal.

    Close down the damn space, Michael.
     
  19. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

    Jun 21, 2004
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Kaiserslautern
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matavž was very good for Slovenia.

    I just looked at the goal again and can't put the blame on Bradley on that goal. The defense was not organized. Goodson should have been closer to the assist man so that Boca doesn't have to pull up and Chandler let the attacker get the inside positioning.
     
  20. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWk8vCBg_sM"]Slovenia Vs USA 2-3 All Goals & Highlights 15.11.2011 - YouTube[/ame]

    Starts at about :53, some annoying fog cover.

    Ljubijankič makes a great turn off his first touch, is Mike supposed to predict that?

    Where's the "dedicated 6" Beckerman on that play? You'd think that's exactly the area he's supposed to be shutting down, not have Bradley come in from far out to do it?
     
    deuteronomy repped this.
  21. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure. There are typically a number of errors leading to a goal. I like Michael, but this is a bad and frustrating habit of his. He needs to clean it up.
     
  22. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I pretty much have to agree. From this video at :51, it's hard to tell if there is a player at the top of the screen. Bradley has no idea how the defense is organized behind him, things happen too quickly.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLRO_OrmeYM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLRO_OrmeYM[/ame]
     
  23. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MB is not the type to really close down imo. He just is not athletic enough to track back with real vigor. He helped keep the flow of the game moving which is his main job. I blame that goal more on the lineup we were playing. It was pretty open.
     
  24. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do not participate in Bradley threads for this reason. There are those who think he can do no wrong. There are those who think he can do no right. Neither is true. He did a lot of things well today. Not closing down a mark and leaving an angle to send a pass through the middle of the US midfield was not one of them, and it is a bad and repetitive habit of his. Because I want to see him become the player he has the potential to be, I want him to clean this aspect of his game up.

    Great corners though!

    I am out.
     
  25. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno. I think we should just accept that this is the player he is. He won't swarm guys down. But he helps keeps the flow. Especially against low-mid level teams.
     

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