11/15 US v. Slovenia; the midfield

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TinManJoshua, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. TinManJoshua

    TinManJoshua Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Portsmouth FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. INKRO

    INKRO Member+

    Jul 28, 2011
    Mikey needs to play.
     
  3. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Beckerman's worst game. When asked to do more when we push more forward, he did not look up to covering the additional space. But mostly I just don't think he smokes anywhere near enough weed for that haircut.

    Johnson looked good. Nice job by Bradley on the right. He may be learning some positional discipline in Italy which will serve him well, especially under Klinsmann.

    We did look weaker defensively in midfield this time out. Not sure if I blame Kyle completely or more the absence of Edu (which I was in favor of) and a different mode of play.
     
  4. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe no 90 minutes every game, but every game. EVERY GAME.

    Beckerman has looked a little out of his element against France and Slovenia. I think he is a good player, but I'm starting to lean towards the Jones crowd.
     
  5. CenterLine

    CenterLine Member

    Jan 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jones over Beckerman, LD for Buddle, Gooch over Goodson & I think that's our first 11.

    Shea/Johnson as the wing subs. Edu as 1st DM sub. & Buddle as 1st forward of the bench.
     
  6. moytoy12

    moytoy12 Member

    Jun 20, 2008
    Tough to see everything on the ESPN3.com feed, but thought Bradley did ok. He had some nice moments getting out of trouble and was very very good on set pieces. He didn't stretch the field horizontally (perhaps by JK's instruction) and still chases the ball way too much.

    Dempsey and Johnson were pretty good.

    Beckerman and Shea, not so good.

    Others, too little time to judge.

    I'd like to see Dempsey and Jones in the center, with LD and Shea on the flanks.
     
  7. Cleats Up

    Cleats Up Member

    Jun 25, 2010
    Saint Louis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, Bradley makes this team better.

    Beckerman's worst game. I think he was exposed because of his lack of pace and recovery speed. (It doesnt help that the 2 center backs also lack pace and recovery speed) I'd like to see Jones in that spot in the future. If Jones can stay disciplined enough to not get caught forward, I think he would be the best option.
     
  8. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    -------Demps------
    Johnson------Mike
    ---------JJ--------

    Next time.

    If Landon can go then stick Dempsey up top with Jozy, have Mike supporting the strikers and move Landon out right.

    Beckerman cannot go at this level imo.
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Why not Jones? Because so far in the USMNT Jones has been used mainly as a CM, or as a DM who makes runs forward.

    JK wants to try wider attacking options, which means Chandler moves forward with whoever is in front of him, leaving a gaping hole in defense.

    Since the CBs are slow, you need a third man to be a stay-at-home DM. In the USA pool, the only guy who's done it for the USMNT is Kyle, so far.

    That's basically it.
     
  10. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

    May 13, 2009
    I think Bradley has had decent positional discipline when asked to play a more defined role for a while now, his defensive problems were always much more likely to pop up in the free form/pulley type CM role, both with national team and with his clubs.

    I know a lot of people have been saying Bradley replaced Edu, but I see him more as replacing Williams, I think Williams was just playing the position completely wrong the last few games.

    Johnson also had a good game and both Bradley and Johnson were much more effective supporting the attack than Edu and Williams. I think Johnson should have played longer, we played significantly worse after he came off.

    Going forward I think the skinny diamond midfield set up suits our personnel well, provided Donovan can find a way to fit into it, as we have way more good CMs than wingers.
     
  11. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think everyone has nailed it here so far. Kyle called out in this game- showing that he's not athletic enough to play the 6 behind the extra forward. Jones is.

    Bradley looks good- perhaps the waiting has sharpened his desire[EDIT - That's not really the right way to say that, because Mike is a monster in his desire to play. Perhaps I should say "focused his energy"]. Regardless, he played good passes and smart offense.

    Johnson and Dempsey were very, very good. Johnson proved dangerous from the start and prevented Solvenia from marking Dempsey out of the game. Good job all around.

    I'll need to watch again to puzzle out what happened at the start of the 2nd half when we couldn't keep possession. Looks like Solvenia flooded the midfield and we were slow to react and get more bodies there to provide outlets for our three poor-passing central defenders (Kyle, Boca and Goodson). Better passing out of the back- it's a must for the USA.
     
  12. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Beckerman is simply not good enough, fast enough enough or big enough to play a single DM. JK needs to move on.

    MB had a good game. Would rather see him in Beckerman's spot though.

    Fabian was good

    Shay - another stinker

    Dempsey - not in that spot. It has to be Torres or somebody like him (Not Donovan)

    I think id like to see Buddle and Dempsey as forwards. Jozy just isnt doing anything game in and game out
     
  13. Aaryque

    Aaryque Member

    Apr 26, 2007
    Norcal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't mind Beckerman in the squad, but I think he will always struggle without another defensive-leaning CM next to him to provide the range and athleticism he lacks. Unfortunately, as we know, that always threatens to hamstring our offense.
     
  14. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It looked like Slovenia flooded the midfield, making it difficult to get a ball through there to our players up top. They also start pressing high up the field. The US came out flat mentally, and combine that with the tactical changes by Slovenia, they were overwhelmed for the first 15 minutes of the half.

    As I saw it.
     
  15. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Dempsey -

    He didn't light the world on fire, but probably a dozen occasions where he shows skill that no one else on the field has. He is just really good right now. Oh, he scored and set up another. Perhaps he did light it up after all.

    Johnson -

    Excellent. Really got forward in dangerous positions, finally getting the PK late in the 1st. Perhaps even MOTM, I'm still deliberating on this one. He didn't seem to have much to do getting back on D, so nothing to fault there either. Interesting to see where he winds up playing for us. He looks like a possible #10 out there.

    Bradley -

    Getting a lot of undeserved praise on TV. I am glad he played, but the fact that his insertion changed our shape did more to do with our success than his actual play. His touch was extraordinary sloppy today, and was fortunate on a few occasions and made some poor passes as well. Still, I give him decent marks today. He consistently showed up in the right spots today, both offensively, but especially on defense. He's a runner, all day long, and in that it was an impressive job.

    Beckerman -

    Wasn't real good today. He did cut out some attacks as usual, but again produced only negative marks going forward. I don't remember any real horrible mistakes though.

    Shea -

    Sucked again. Not much to say here really. Hope he can regain the traction he had earlier over the Winter.

    Edu -

    Very much needed and played really well in his time. I think this is probably the best role for him, fresh legs to pair (or replace) a tiring DM.

    Jones/Rogers - They played, sort of.
     
  16. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    At this point in time, minus the guys with injuries where we don't know when they'll be back to old form (Holden and Torres), I think this is exactly right.

    442 vs 4231 vs whatever I'm still agnostic on. It's a matter of the players and basic roles.

    I'm still on the fence about Beckerman. I'm not as down on him as most, but tonight was not a good night for him, and I was hoping to see Jones a lot sooner.
     
  17. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thought Johnson was excellent. Demspey very good. Bradley good. Beckerman poor. Shea awful. Edu did what he was supposed to do. Jones and Rogers weren't on long enough to say.

    Johnson. Drew the PK. Almost scored right off the start. Should have had an assist but Jozy Wondo'd it. Poise and control on the ball. Intelligent runs and good at finding space off it. Nice crosses. He's a keeper. Like to see him on either flank, also a possibility as a #10/#8, or possibly as a fullback. But I really like him closer to goal. Looks well ahead of Shea and Beasley to me.

    Dempsey. I thought Clint was pretty good today. I'll make a bit of allowance for him playing in a new spot, the CAM under two forwards. Always classy on the ball. Created the chance for the first goal with pressure, scored on a header. Almost scored on another header. Wish the ref would have played on after he was hacked in the second.

    Bradley. Clearly, Harkes has a man crush, but we was pretty good tonight. Especially on his set piece deliveries. Had a nice pass early and was a part of several nice attacking sequences, including the build up to the penalty. Still, for me, he's an inside player. Though he did play some RM in his 'Veen days, I believe. Great motor as always. Lack of speed may worry me a bit wide.

    Beckerman. I agree with what others have said. He's much better at this level with someone else to break up plays in front. If we go with 2 forwards and Dempsey (or another CAM type) as a #10, then I'd much prefer a more athletic/higher motor DM type, be it Jones (my choice), Edu, Williams, or Bradley.

    Edu. Did what he was supposed to do. Help us calm things down and clog the middle. After the two post and then the goal at around '60 minutes, not too many clear chances after that.

    Shea. Shockingly poor. I just think the lad is out of gas. He needs a rest. Let Johnson, DMB, Donovan, Dempsey, and say, Benny Fielhaber or Brad Davis has a look at LM next. Still, I like Johnson better as a player at this point. More polish.

    Jones and Rogers: nr. Too little time on pitch.
    \
     
  18. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny how I predicted that Johnson would do better than Shea on the left wing. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He was playing very heavily pinched in more as a CM, but I agree. Shea I think will be a force playing wide in qualifiers against guys that he physically outmatches, but in games where he's not an athletic mismatch, I think his effectiveness drops off significantly.

    I rate Johnson a little higher all-around, and if real matches started today I'd probably prefer him in the line-up, with Shea as more of an impact sub/situational player (ie starting him against a smallish team like El Salvador, for instance).
     
  20. jamezyjamez

    jamezyjamez Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Would've been a good prediction if we were playing with, well, wingers.
     
  21. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    The other thing that needs to be discussed here is our shape, and I can't decide whether I like this skinny diamond or not. I'm not wild about it as our default shape, but I can see using it situationally.
     
  22. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Though I dislike Shea because of his poor skills on the ball, I have to agree that against CONCACAF opponents he should do alright.
     
  23. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We looked a little harried defending, scrambling to cover guys quite a bit and not picking up second balls off their direct play.

    But Bradley brought a lot to the side today offensively. His passing was probing, he looked to combine, and his set piece delivery was devastating all day.

    And Johnson seems to have the brains and the skill to play anywhere in the midfield - great to see that!
     
  24. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I don't have much trouble with his skill so much as his speed-of-thought. At this point in his career he's playing with blinders on, and is unsuited to smart one-touch.

    When he has a chance to be a bull in a China shop, punishing the opposition with sheer size, speed, and aggressiveness, he's tended to be quite effective. But I rate Johnson more highly. He's smarter, his touch (particularly first touch) is at least as good if not better, he's got good attacking instincts, and he's also a battler who seems to try one thing then the other until he finds a way. Shea tends to stick with his bread-and-butter. He's more limited.
     
  25. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was right by assuming that Johnson would be a better midfielder than Shea simply for that fact that he was brought up through the German system. I don't think you can play for Hoffenheim unless you have elite skills on the ball.
     

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