LMFAO@Spain lucky Chile has never beaten Spain in a tournament, or friendly, yet they were lucky? lol......... You don't remember the last time Spain met chile before the world cup? it was complete domination 3-0 in Santiago.
Can't believe we're still discussing the Torres dive. Must be a slow day at the office for some posters. Even when that play happened I remember thinking to myself "yeah, that was a harsh red. But the game is over anyway."
mmm and you surely don't remember the last friendly game Spain against Chile (just last month)? A 3-2 win in last minutes thanks to the referee - AGAIN, Spain were struggling there in a 2-2 game until that ... (gifted goal) I don't bash Spain NT. They were the best team from 08-10, and are still the TOP3 best teams right now; in plus they play very good football and I DO LIKE watch them playing. However, my point to the fantasia idea (of some here) that they are NOT among the greatest team, NOR among the "greatest teams" that won the WC period ( aka to the title of the post) Unclesox, I did NOT avoid anything. What you guys discussed is ALL ABOUT the ref's incompetence. (nothing to do with Estrada tackle nor Torres diving) It happened - and so the games were moving on and Spain won. No matter what excuse and how you tried to view it, TORRES DIVED period even that slight contact was "made", that would NOT make him jumping high and falling like a leaf virtually 1minute LATER! I do play football so I know how to make a player falling down and what scenario the player will get fallen due to which contact. THOUGH, Torres' dive did NOT make Spain looking worse - it's individually disgraceful. People made mistakes (ref) deliberately or not we don;t know as it happened. BUT one should admit that is LUCKY (or UNLUCKY) depending on which side you stand. MOst of you DO REMEMBER WC2002, as Spanish fans cried on the ref for being a host favoritism, yeah? I guess human being tend to have remembered "bad things" for them rather than believed some "good thing" happened to them
Not just Spanish fans, but many felt Korea were given special treatment in that tournament, and not just in the Spain game. It goes both ways. People who don't a like particular team will only remember the favorable calls that certain team received and ignore the unjust calls that went against them. Please note that from the beginning I said that Villa's goal against Portugal should have been ruled out for offside. And I never claimed that Capdevila was fouled. I stated that I had never seen a video that was convincing either way of whether he was fouled or took a dive. Rivelino87 posted a video that he felt looked convincing that he dived, I agreed and acknowledged Capdevila's "shameful" playacting. Rivelino87 still wants to hold it against me, and that's fine. It says more about his agenda than mine. As for the "Torres dive", It's quite clear that he did not dive. The solitary camera angle that's often replayed is a bit unfortunate but the contact of Estrada's knee to Torres' ankle is there, causing Torres to immediately fall to ground (he did not fall like a leaf "1minute LATER!" ). Having already escaped a second booking for the Iniesta foul ten minutes earlier, there was no alternative: Estrada had to go.
Top 3? Gee, ya think? They've just won their 22nd consecutive qualifying match and 14th competitive match in-a-row, equaling an all-time record. Yes, they are top 3. And the other 2 teams joining them in that top 3 are still behind.
Thankfully, BocaFan's rundown of Spain's current streaks do not include friendlies. 22 CONSECUTIVE WINS, QUALIFYING MATCHES --- 08/09/2007: Iceland 1:1 Spain ...................... EURO Qualifier 01 12/09/2007: Spain 2:0 Latvia ........................ EURO Qualifier 02 13/10/2007: Denmark 1:3 Spain .................... EURO Qualifier 03 17/11/2007: Spain 3:0 Sweden ...................... EURO Qualifier 04 21/11/2007: Spain 1:0 Northern Ireland .......... EURO Qualifier 05 06/09/2008: Spain 1:0 Bosnia-Herzegovina ..... World Cup Qualifier 06 10/09/2008: Spain 4:0 Armenia ..................... World Cup Qualifier 07 11/10/2008: Estonia 0:3 Spain ....................... World Cup Qualifier 08 15/10/2008: Belgium 1:2 Spain ..................... World Cup Qualifier 09 28/03/2009: Spain 1:0 Turkey ....................... World Cup Qualifier 10 01/04/2009: Turkey 1:2 Spain ....................... World Cup Qualifier 11 05/09/2009: Spain 5:0 Belgium ..................... World Cup Qualifier 12 09/09/2009: Spain 3:0 Estonia ....................... World Cup Qualifier 13 10/10/2009: Armenia 1:2 Spain ..................... World Cup Qualifier 14 14/10/2009: Bosnia-Herzegovina 2:5 Spain ..... World Cup Qualifier 15 03/09/2010: Liechtenstein 0:4 Spain ............... EURO Qualifier 16 08/10/2010: Spain 3:1 Lithuania .................... EURO Qualifier 17 12/10/2010: Scotland 2:3 Spain ..................... EURO Qualifier 18 25/03/2011: Spain 2:1 Czech Republic ............ EURO Qualifier 19 29/03/2011: Lithuania 1:3 Spain .................... EURO Qualifier 20 06/09/2011: Spain 6:0 Liechtenstein ............... EURO Qualifier 21 07/10/2011: Czech Republic 0:2 Spain ............ EURO Qualifier 22 11/10/2011: Spain 3:1 Scotland ...................... EURO Qualifier Basically, this winning run includes all matches EXCEPT friendlies. Only tournament matches recognized by FIFA, be it qualifiers or finals, are taken into consideration. 14 CONSECUTIVE WINS IN TOURNAMENT MATCHES (friendlies not included) --- 16/06/2010: Spain 0:1 Switzerland ................. 2010 World Cup 01 21/06/2010: Spain 2:0 Honduras .................... 2010 World Cup 02 25/06/2010: Chile 1:2 Spain .......................... 2010 World Cup 03 29/06/2010: Spain 1:0 Portugal ..................... 2010 World Cup 04 03/07/2010: Paraguay 0:1 Spain .................... 2010 World Cup 05 07/07/2010: Germany 0:1 Spain .................... 2010 World Cup 06 11/07/2010: Netherlands 0:1aet Spain ........... 2010 World Cup 07 03/09/2010: Liechtenstein 0:4 Spain ............... EURO Qualifier 08 08/10/2010: Spain 3:1 Lithuania .................... EURO Qualifier 09 12/10/2010: Scotland 2:3 Spain ..................... EURO Qualifier 10 25/03/2011: Spain 2:1 Czech Republic ............ EURO Qualifier 11 29/03/2011: Lithuania 1:3 Spain .................... EURO Qualifier 12 06/09/2011: Spain 6:0 Liechtenstein ............... EURO Qualifier 13 07/10/2011: Czech Republic 0:2 Spain ............ EURO Qualifier 14 11/10/2011: Spain 3:1 Scotland ...................... EURO Qualifier
I was not disagreeing with Boca but agreeing with him. I meant that those who are not putting Spain as a favorite are putting too much stock in Friendlies which were lost or drawn. Spain is still a force, obviously and in my opinion still a notch above Holland and Germany. Personally I tend to put very little stock in Friendly matches.
As far as 2002 is concerned,the referee in that game was charged with curruption, and never refereed another match again. You cannot compare bad officiating,with a referee that's been bought. Regardless the match vs chile was ugly, and the chilean players resorted to hacking all throughout the game
Well I don;t know about "being bought" (any solid proof?) or not, so to me it's the SAME. I view it more "positively" as either LUCK or BAD LUCK and we have to live with it. Yes TOP 3 along with Germany and Holland - as these 3 can beat each other in their best form. What ya meant with a "GEE"? you think Spain now is like Brazil 70? that would be a big GEEEEEE Qualification for Euro is a JOKE. look at their competitors in names ... (Leitshenten and Lithiuana said it ALL) Wait until the real Euro12 'd begin ... and that will be more "justified" for their (and others) quality
Even if we exclude the official "friendlies" for Spain, there isn't anything mindblowing about their winning streak as the Euro qualifiers are really a joke, People are putting too much stock for them beating Lithuania and Estonia etc. yet when the matches against Argentina or Portugal are brought up their fans call it "Friendlies" which is technically correct but frankly hypocritical.
I didn't watch your video because your posts are biased, ridiculous, and filled speculation to justify outright bad decisions that went in Spain's favor. What I was saying about seeking the facts was to stop making up biased "what if" scenarios to explain decisions in Spain's favor. The fact is that Estrada got a yellow. What you think the referee thought, or whatever other reason you think he had, is just speculation. He has to enforce the rules, not compensate for decisions. A mistake I made in typing Iniesta's name instead Busquets' doesn't change the fact that the initial incident (the foul) was dealt with by the referee. As for this thread, I'm done. It's at best tangential to my interest, and I have my own NT from my country of birth to worry about and enjoy, and that of my grandparents' to casually follow. You can have whatever last word makes you feel better to compensate for supporting a NT you probably adopted.
What a sad character you are, searching all of my posts here to descredit what I have said here, and make an argument where you have none. I have no axe to grind with Spain at all. In the post about Thiago, I merely pointed out that he is a youth product of Flamengo, not a La Masia one, as he trained with Flamengo for about 6 years, including the important formative years between 10-15. He arrived at Barcelona at 16 after briefly training with another Spanish before (not 2005 like his wikipedia says. Noticed he is only listed as having trained with Barca B at 16, and he never trained with Barca C). That length of time is longer than Messi, who is credited as a La Masia product, trained with at La Masia (he arrived at 13 and debuted at 17). So his the reason he gave of having been formed as a footballer in Spain was PR. Even if you forget about his life story, you can clearly see that he plays like a young Brazilian in his style, and is stylistically different to any player Spanish football has ever produced for a reason. I also pointed out that based on comments to the press, before his contract extension, that he he wanted to triumph in football and not necessarily Barcelona, pointed to a career-oriented footballer. Pointing out what's in the news, and pointing out facts about his life does not equate to having an axe to grind with Spain.
Of course you don't. No need for me to search your posts since I found that in the Spain NT forum. I only ran across that bitterness of yours because, if you had "checked the facts", I went to post about Spain's upcoming friendlies and looked at the thread title of "news and rumors", opened the thread and had the flashback. I then decided to leave that thread alone and posted in the "teams lining up for friendlies" thread instead. Simple as. Anything else I said that you'd like to spin before you're done with this thread... again?
Wow, me telling you to "check the facts" because you were claiming footage wasn't available really hit a tender spot of yours, huh? Just because I said I was done with the thread doesn't give you carte blanche to invent things and try to discredit what I posted here (largely videos) by bringing up another thread I posted facts about Thiago's life in. I haven't spun anything you said around. I posted videos on here that you claimed to either not have seen or that weren't available on the internet. On the Thiago thread I posted facts about his life. You brought up a thread that was completely irrelevant to this topic and the discussion you and I were having, in order to claim I had bitterness toward Spain, so you could try to discredit my posts here. I have no bitterness toward Spain, and have no envy whatsoever. Why would I?
What is hypocritical about saying that they have done very well in the matches that count? Are you saying that you think friendlies are or should be important to a team which has won the Euro and World Cup consecutively?
Only you would know. All I know is that you're quick to post videos of plays that went Spain's way, yet when I post a video you're not willing to view it because it's somehow viewed as me being biased. I had no problem admitting Capdevila's act was shameful, so no soft spots of mine were touched. Since you're not strong enough to live up to your words, I'll show you how it's done. I'm giving you the last word in this thread to say whatever you want about me. I'm even giving you carte blanche to say as you please.
This is not true. You were even denying evidence existed. By the way: you had a point there, the live replays weren't indeed very convincing. But that this was left unclear by the FIFA (who has this under his control), among other fouls, can also point to the favouritism that was in play. Yes, I honestly believe that an atmosphere existed which favoured the Spanish (the fair play award for the spanish was ridiculous), just as the Dutch and Germans were approached in a negative fashion during the tournament. When Holland beat Brazil, it wasn't stressed that Holland won, it was stressed by both the FIFA and the international press that Brazil lost. A slight but important difference. That was equally the case when Germany won against Argentina and England. Somehow, it was stressed that the other lost. Furthermore: yes it is true that Estrada should have been sent off for his foul against Iniesta. But that was not my point. My point was that both sides committed very blatant fouls and Spain were lucky to see Chile raking up all the cards. Also in this match I saw some fouls by the Spanish that were somehow not replayed by the FIFA. Just think about how the image (and the number of replays) can distort the perception of the public.
Agree. Beating those type of teams isn't that impressive. They lost again in a friendly again with England. I remember in the game Spain vs Argentina ESPN's Fernando Palomo said something to the effect that teams didn't only win prestige winning World Cups (or int. competitions) but also going around the world and beating the big teams (in this case Argentina) in friendlies. That's one important way to establish dominance over the rest of the teams. Not by having a long record of wins over some random Euro teams. But of going into other countries and taking away wins in foreign soil.
Time for a reminder: 86th minute World Cup final, Robben comes for the second time one-on-one before the keeper, but Puyol (had already a yellow card) pulled him on his shirt. Casillas was thus able to grab the ball away from Robben's feets. Spain was a really poor champion, about of the same level as Brazil 1994. The difference is that Spain has only a couple of more cheerleaders than that Brazilian team.
You seem to forget that Spain won Euro 2008 and World Cup 2010. And if going perfect in qualifiers for 4 years was so easy, how come nobody else did it? I didn't realize that Euro 2008, WC 2010 and all of Spain's qualifiers were played in Spain. Anyway, your whole argument is nonsense since Spain put together an unbeaten streak of about 40-45 games which included friendlies. Yes, that streak ended, as every streak eventually does. But at least it ended at the right time, not in South Africa or Vienna.
Well not to diminish Spain NT performance over last 5years as they are #1 in title and ranking, however out of those winnings (against lower teams i.e. Euro QUAL and some sweat luck in WC10) Spain got a poor record against big teams like last few friendlies Portugal (1-4), Argentina 0-4, Mexico 1-1, Chile 3-2 (should be 2-2) and lastly England 0-1 ... They did not do bad there, still enjoy a good deal in possession but their key weakness is finding a clear chance to score goals ... Either they need a new coach or Bosque needs to trim up his attacking force in front!