It's time to Reflect on the USA-Honduras Game

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by USAsoccer1, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would like to first say it's nice to get win! Next, the game started off Rough but once it got going...I started to see the team come together. I thought Danny Williams was a nice surprise. Over all, I give it a B+...We still left some goals on field; however I feel like it's starting to roll:DGo Klinsman Go USA!
     
  2. Aconti2

    Aconti2 Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I find it hilarious that when we lose there are 10 new threads made about how we're shit and are the laughing stock of soccer but when we win this place is a ghost town.
     
  3. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's this thing called the USA-Honduras Post Game Thread.
     
  4. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry I wasn't articulate enough you...If the thread wasn't worded correctly for you, you could have just ignored it. Matter of fact, I think everyone would have preferred that. Now back to the topic, I even like Danny Williams more after this article:

    http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2011/10/Danny-Williams-QandA.aspx
     
  5. CiudadanoDelMundo

    Mexico
    Jul 23, 2008
    Mexico City
    I think it has to do to whom y'all lose to and whom y'all win against.
     
  6. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree, he is right...Whenever we lose to anyone it is front page news. And Honduras is strong team but nobody wants to say anything...
     
  7. heavydluxe

    heavydluxe New Member

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm relatively new to the board, and slightly less new to soccer-fandom overall.

    Outside of the last WC cycle, I hadn't seen any USMNT games until the Klinsman era started and managed to catch his first two friendlies. We don't have cable at the house, so I can only catch games that are streamed (typically on ESPN3).

    Again, I'm a total n00b, but I have to say that I've really enjoyed what I've seen so far out of JK's team. There were flashes in all the friendlies of some really fluid, exciting soccer (again, from my n00bie vantage point) and the games were - for the most part - competitive. I'm willing to give a rather long leash to Klinsman to develop his strategy for the team and for the players to become comfortable within the system.

    I would imagine that, with patience, the fruit will be worth waiting for. I think the performance against Honduras in this last game, which I got to see at a friends, was more of the same. There's definitely a progression, and progress is progress.
     
  8. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    If anyone watched the Belgium game there were some notable improvements that also lead to some interesting trade-offs.

    1. Clint Dempsey has more time with the team. He started off shaky, as did MOF, Edu, and TC, but as the match continued, he settled into the 10 roll and was winning possession, keeping the ball and passing well. Still a ton of kinks, but way better than Belgium.

    2. Bodies in the Box. We finally had players making runs into the box, waiting for the cross or the cutback. There was more emphasis on crosses into the box than cut in and shoot.

    3. THis of course left us open to quick counter attacks. With Edu, the wing backs and wide mids mixing it up on the attack we were left open to too many 1 v. 1 battles for the defenders. It didnt help that our defenders were having a poor time controlling mildly talented Hondy players.

    4. More compact, more options on the wing, but still not great. Against Belgium there could be 50 yards between midfielders. In an effort to spread out the opponent we effectively took our wide mids out of the match. Against Hondy, there was an effort made to move up the field as a team.

    5. Jozy or as I like to call him the 60minute man, was more effective against Hondy backline than the Flems. He needs to go to the Adu dribbling school though as he certainly thinks he can dribble, but he cant.

    6. Veteran power. With Beaz, Howard, Dempsey, and Dolo, you had some veterans you could count on. Boca was wasteful, Beckerman is not athletic enough at times, Edu was wasteful early and not aggressive enough defensively, Gooch was in his own way not great and MOF was beaten. MB was not bad, but this is the role he should be playing. Sub off the bench when we have a lead. He can back pass the match into oblivion.

    7. Because we committed to the attack and possession in Hondy half our defense played a high back line and was always one good pass from being completely exposed and beaten.

    8. As we saw against Ghana and Mexico, the US is a VERY POOR DEFENSIVE TEAM when Howard has a bad match. If he has an off day the US is not very good. Vasquez and Klinsie should be blooding the youngsters right now. Gonzo, Cameron, Lloyd, Spector at CB, and anyone else under 25 who plays defense. Hypothetical, Hondy has a speedy RM who is killing us, if Dolo or TC go down to injury Boca is left isolated on speed with probably Edu playing the LB position. Bad planning.
     
  9. o Sigma o

    o Sigma o Member

    Jun 30, 2008
    The Suncoast
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More so to do with people expecting us to win against "X" opponent with "Y" roster and if that result is not met... The sky starts falling. The same crap happened during Bradley's tenure, it's just fans being fans. We're all guilty of it at one time or another.
     
  10. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Sorry, High Holidays are over - no more reflection for a year.
     
  11. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good Point, There's definitely a progression, and progress is progress...Stay Positive
     
  12. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By stating no more reflections, you actually gave a reflection :) Thanks for playing and have a good day.
     
  13. elvinjones

    elvinjones Member

    Jul 4, 2011
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree about the silence. It's vacant in here without the I-told-you-so baby-bob-mob in here after a win. It's almost peaceful.
     
  14. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thumbs up Elvin :)
     
  15. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    I think the win has less to do with the team starting to understand Klinsmann's tactics, and more to do with Klinsmann starting to realize his tactics are dog shit and switching up to a 2 striker set.

    I'm not surprised that we created more chances and won a game with more guys in the box and our playmakers closer to goal as opposed to our first three games where we had one player in the box and our playmaker (Torres) never ventured closer than 35 yards from the box.
     
  16. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Shocking what happens when you play a two striker formation and move a center mid closer to the goal rather than play a deep lying playmaker.

    He's getting better at the little things, which I like. His fitness isn't as much of a concern for me to be honest.

    And Jozy's job shouldn't be to dribble. Look at his goals in Holland. He isn't being asked to beat defenders. If the service gets better with the US, he won't have to dribble. He'll just have to score.

    MB was heads and shoulders better than Mo. Virtually every time that Mo attempted to pass the ball forward, he either passed it directly to a Honduran or passed to a guy that was tightly marked or double teamed, which ultimately led to a turnover.

    MB might not be flashy, but he made better penetrating runs and passes than anything that Mo showed all night.

    MB absolutely should be a starter on this team ahead over every other CM in our pool with the exception of a healthy and in form Holden.

    Orozco-Fiscal is completely worthless. People gave Bradley shit about Borstein, even though we don't really have a lot of options at left back.

    Orozco is turning into Klinsmann's Bornstein. The major difference is that we have several better options.
     
  17. dsirias

    dsirias Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    Really dont like boca taking all these minutes at the expense of all the young CBs never called in. I don't care about boca's experience He's slow and a bad passer. If he is even on the team in '14 I will have made a mistake regarding my support of JK.....
     
  18. elvinjones

    elvinjones Member

    Jul 4, 2011
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe later this week I'll look for a replay and see if Boca was more than slightly better than Fiscal? He was pretty bad from what I remember. Not that Fiscal was very good (not to partake in group-think).

    And for the love of God we need two strikers. We're just not a team that will do well otherwise.

    I can't remember a time in the past year before JK when we were able to open up even a U10 level defense how we did this last game, doing something crazy like something other than a delayed extremely obvious offensive pass, so I'm hoping for continued improvement. Honestly I think we tried and simply failed the last game; I think that corroborates the formation improvement.
     
  19. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Predicted by many before the Hondo match BTW. Oh boy...we will get chances and possibly score was the chorus of glee!

    To his credit, JK he isn't forcing something that clearly isn't there.

    If he keeps calling in "core player" Fiscal it's time to start really roasting him.
    He is what he is, average and mediocre, whether for MLS or FMF, and he is a "core player". Ha.

    I remember starting to get really hard on Edu a couple of years ago when the anything but Lil Mikey crowd acted as if Mo was some victimized star in the waiting. BB was forcing him out for his son. Edu's quality is clear!

    I said it then, I say it now, if he is anything other than a spot player for us come 2014 then a lot has gone wrong for us.
    At least now folks have seen enough so the childlike prostestations of "hater" can't be made anymore. He is what he is. Eh.

    Oh yeah...the SPL truly sucks. No way to judge a player. It sucks.

    Lil Mike is, as has always been the case, clearly a step above Edu. Not even close.

    BB & MB were the best thing that ever happened to Mo's rep. Sure as hell isn't his play.

    Let's see what tonight brings.

    Can't see Ecuador being as wasteful as Hondo.

    One day, we are gonna give up a ton of goals quick to just an average/decent team unless JK gets serious about the center of the park.
     
  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Our defense in the center of the park has been tighter since Klinsmann has come on board with his predilection to utilize more defined rolls in the midfield and specifically assigning one or more guys to sit and clean up in front of the defense instead of putting in two box to box guys in the middle and letting them run free and leave holes behind them. People harped on Bob and the "empty bucket," but really he let the center mids pretty much run free and preferred a much more high pressure on the ball style of play rather than a positional style of play. We ended up with our center mids attacking the ball and being bypassed far more often playing this style.

    I'm not anti-Bradley at all (Mike or Bob really, although I prefer Klinsmann) and would like to see Mike work himself into this team as I think he is one of our more talented midfielders. But if he's going to do so, he is going to have to learn to play with a bit more restraint. He did seem inclined to do so against Honduras and I fully believe playing in Italy will help him become more tactically aware, but he has never really shown the inclination to be a guy who holds his position all that well. This is where he will need to improve, and I fully expect he will, to be a full time guy for the US under Klinsmann.
     
  21. DC_United

    DC_United Member

    May 8, 2008
    I wouldn't say Dempsey was an out and out striker, I think he played the number 10, "hole" role. Brek and Williams both were better at running up and down the pitch than we've seen from the wings the past few games.

    The formation looked like:

    -------------Jozy-------------
    -----------Dempsey------------
    Brek-----------------------Williams
    --------Edu--Beckerman-------

    Jozy was the furthest up, getting into the 18-yard-box, but also moving out wide. Dempsey was told to sit in the middle, but play deep as well and hang out at the 18. Brek and Williams were allows to cut in and were both told to run up and down. Edu was told to push further up, and Beckerman was told to hold back. I'd argue it was a 4-5-1, that adapted itself based on attacking or defending.
     
  22. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    I wouldn't be too quick to praise Klinsmann's defensive tactics. For every golden opportunity we blew against Honduras, Honduras blew a golden opportunity of their own.

    Tim Howard was our defense on Saturday.

    I saw him as more of a supporting striker...allowing him to get into the box easier, and also provided an outlet for Jozy. Point is...there was a concerted effort to ensure that Jozy wasn't left isolated on an island by himself, unlike the first few games.


    I don't really recall Dempsey every dropping that deep to get the ball except when we were breaking out from corner kicks. When we had possession, Clint was parked right next to the 18 with Jozy.

    If Edu was told to push up, he sure as shit wasn't listening. I honestly can't remember point where he pushed much further than the center circle. And he was a turnover machine the entire match.

    The contrast betwen him and Bradley was like night and day. Hopefully we see MB start against Ecuador.
     
  23. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    I really don't agree with this at all. The only match so far under Klinsmann where the center of the field was locked down was Mexico, where Klinsmann had 4 CMs and Donovan always willing to defend.

    Despite his personnel switches from the Bradley era, in the rest of his matches he's had the same defensive problems that Bradley had.
     
  24. ark215

    ark215 Member

    Jan 16, 2009
    America
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's easier to nitpick a loss.

    Beckerman had one of his weakest games ever. I still like him in that deep mid role but I'm still waiting to see Spector, Bradley and Williams deep.

    Could we see Agudelo and Bunbury together with Agudelo playing Clint's role?

    Can't wait for tonight's game.
     
  25. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    its just as easy to nitpick a win.

    In the game we had all the same issues that posters used against Bob when he was managing.

    The game was anything but "beautiful", but earned the result. Strings of passes here and there, but too many silly turnovers. We failed to finish clear cut opportunities. And we gave up too many clear cut opportunities to Honduras at which point Howard had to come up big to save the game. Hopefully Gooch or someone can help solidify the defense. I have little if any confidence in Orozco.

    There were positives as well. Dempsey played very well when he was given freedom to roam. I agree with GVPATS that if i had to label his "position" it would have been a striker. Of course there were times he checked back into the midfield, but rarely drifting too far back. He spent most of his time working off of Jozy. Williams had a nice debut, looking forward to seeing him play more under JK. Shea didnt have his best game, but still overall he's improving certain aspects of his game. Jozy played very well. Good to see his PT in Holland is paying off.
     

Share This Page