Fiat 500

is this a rare car in the states? here in france they've been all the rage for the last couple of years.

 

Saw a 500 for the first time on the streets today, but then, I don't think the Denver Fiat dealership has been open for long.

 

Rare? You could say so. Until this year, Fiats had not been sold in the US since the 80s.

Awesome car. i would buy one if I wasn't so much in love with my Mini Cooper.

 

the only problem i have with the new minis is that the first ones looked enough like the old ones to elicit nostalgia, then the first facelift looked enough like the precedent version, but the latest one... if it wasn't for the intervening models no one could look at it and detect a resemblance with the car that inspired it all. it looks as much like a dodge laramie as a classic mini.

renault missed out on a big opportunity to get in their nostalgia mobile in 1996... just after the first new beetle prototypes but well before the mini or 500. it was called the fiftie, and was reminiscent of the 4CV. obviously not destined to the same world market as the beetle or mini since the recognition wouldn't have held outside of europe, but it was a saucy little prototype. the 1.2L engine on the geneva car only developed 60 hp... but only weighed 82 kg. and along with the aluminum and carbon chassis parts from the sports spider it was derived from it must have been a sweet drive... especially since unlike the new beetle and F500 that went F/F, the fiftie stayed faithful to the mid-engined configuration of its ancestor.

 

i'm going far afield here, but the thread isn't so dense that a little off-subject will kill it...

let's look at a characteristic which is primordial in terms of all around performance but so neglected these days that some specifications lists don't even carry it: curb weight. comparison between the originals and their clones is edifying.

let's start with the good old beetle: the last european models were around 790 kg (US versions with the 5mph bumper etc. approached 900). the new beetle came out at 1272 kg, to add to my dismay it has crept up to 1308 for the same version and options.

for the mini, the last classics weighed 720 kg (the oldest models were just over 600 kg, but i'm always using the last production year), the first new minis hit the scales at 1235! fiat was and still is the flyweight: the last "nuovas" were 525 kg, the new ones are 930 to 970! we're talking 66% to 85% increases!

though these are of course completely new designs with only superficial resemblances to their forebears, the comparison is not apples to oranges; it sheds a glaring light on a generalized bulemia that also holds true when analyzing the evolution certain models: the polo ballooned to the point that the lupo had to be introduced to take its original niche. for renault, put a new twingo next to one of the first clios and you see the same thing. in a world of dwindling resources this should shock and dismay. it does me anyway.

the paradox is all the greater when you consider the new technologies and materials available to constructors today. a trend to lighter vehicles would be more logical. and more than just logical! we in the industry completely it to happen! in the earlyish 90's, on a project to replace a steel suspension arm on an existing vehicle with an aluminum one. it turned out more complicated than it should have so i asked the designer what the big deal about gaining les sthan4kg on a vehicle that was still a behemoth (volvo 960 to be precise). the reason was precise and convincing: those 3800 grams would avoid eco-based fiscal penalties for the model in certain countries. but the conversation went farther, into an explanation of the virtuous circle of a huge range of lighter weight parts we were developing together; kilos gleaned on an aluminum suspension arm, on a steering knuckle, open the way for lighter weight wheels.. a plastic gas tank, a computer-optimized rear axle assembly, and you can go for smaller gauge springs... and now you can get the same performance from a smaller engine... and the kinetic force is reduced to where you can get the same accident characteristics with less sheet metal. and from there your chassis parts can be lightened again!

none of that is free, but between the gains in mileage and upkeep (after all: who's going to develop back problems first: someone fit or someone 30 kg overweight?) and government pollution and consumption incentives it all made economic as well as simply industrial sense. our icon was the audi A2. we witnessed the operation where they welded a steel tube onto an aluminum frame and came away with our jaws in our laps and almost with tears in our eyes.

what's happened since then? the steel parts of the 90's ended up being replaced... with cast-iron ones. progress is now measured only by "productivity"... meaning cost reductions (often only illusory ones, but that's yet another story) that in large part translate into cruder production means and materials.

sigh... i can either stop now or continue for another ten pages. so i'll stop now.

and btw, the 500 is indeed a very nice car as they go these days. it's what i would get if i was buying.

 

Love that little Renault. What I'd love to see is a new Citroen like the ones that used to compete with the little Fiats.

 

hmmm... i'm not the greatest expert in the subject but i think you may actually be talking about the little old renault in question: in its class it won the monte carlo rally, the coupe des alpes, the 24h of Le Mans and the mille miglia.



its successor the dauphine also did some racing, but the only little citroen i can think of (the 2CV) very little.

 

without being as ubiquitous as the beetle, in my childhood both the dauphine and the citroën DS were foreign cars common enough to raise no eyebrows.