MLS flavors of the week: 2011 Edition Part II [MLS R's]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by giffenbone, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, he bypassed a teammate showing or the ball too many times.
     
  2. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gonzo looked horrendous in this match. He was way out of position a bunch, cleared the ball when he should have passed it, and took too much time on it when he should have cleared it.
     
  4. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

    May 30, 2011
    HoustAtlantaDMV
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hopefully the sounders can make due tomorrow.

    First Galaxy bunker and pay for it, and colorado lays an egg at home in front of a "home crowd." . Sheesh:(
     
  5. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Would you consider Taylor Twellman to be one of those undervalued goal scorers? How about Ante Razov? Should those guys have been given more caps than they actually received?
     
  6. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Yes, definitely.
     
  7. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because often times, goal scorers are one dimensional.

    We were just talking about this issue in the Schalke thread. Schalke plays with both Raul and Huntelaar on the pitch at the same time. Both of those players are brilliant in the box, but relatively useless everywhere else on the pitch. As a result, Schalke has a hard time generating chances and keeping possession. It also puts our attacking wide players under more pressure.

    In the modern game, you're much better off utilizing a player that can play three positions decently than one position excellently. In other words, it's better to have Shea on the pitch (he can play attacking mid, defense in a pinch, AND finish decently) than Wondo (who's brilliant in the box, but below average everywhere else).
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Aaryque

    Aaryque Member

    Apr 26, 2007
    Norcal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure I agree with this. In fact, I might say the opposite. Any player that has shown any ability to score at levels above MLS and CONCACAF is practically canonized. The problem is that list is a depressingly short one.

    If you want to say that US fans have undervalued goal scorers at lower levels, I guess that may be true. We've just been burnt to many times by the types of Twellmen, Cunningham, EJ, Razov, Kreis, Lassiter, etc. Players that have proven that, while one above average skill (be it speed, composure, timing, technique, and so on) may be enough to get it done in MLS, you have to bring a much more well-rounded game to the table at higher levels. We've seen what happens to the pure speed guys when the defenders get faster and smarter. We've seen what happens to the pure poachers when the spaces get smaller and the opportunities fewer. People sometimes talk like "scorer" is some unwavering skill that operates independent of the quality of competition. Clearly that's not that case.

    Even the guys that are often brought up as the pure finisher types (RVN, Huntelaar, etc.) have much broader skill sets in addition to performing their singular exceptional skill at a much higher level.
     
  9. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS poachers have generally failed at the Nats. Speed, skill, and power guys seem to do better....
     
  10. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ghosting - was this Gonzo's first match outside of the US? I'm not counting the Puerto Rico Islanders game from last year - not the same environment.

    He would have had nerves. Even his Nats stint was at the HDC.
     
  11. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meadowlands v. Brazil as well.
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. If Chris keeps scoring in MLS, he'll keep getting chances. People seem to be equating Wondolowski with Twellman-type MLS guys. That's fine............but Taylor Twellman had 30 caps. Plenty of chances. Ante Ravoz had 26. Roy Lassiter had 30. Jeff Cunningham had 14. All four were in the mix for World Cup rosters. Why? Because they scored goals.

    I'm not saying Wondolowski is the answer. I'm just saying it's ludicrous to think Wondolowski isn't going to be called up and given chances to impress Klinsmann in the future. When people make lists of forwards they want to see with the USMNT, they list guys nowhere near as good or proven at any level as much as Chris Wondolowski is. I saw somebody list Bobby Wood and Conor Doyle ahead of Wondolowski the other day. Those guys have zero combined pro goals in first-team football. What are people smoking? I like CJ Sapong. We can certainly look at him. I believe he has fewer career goals than Chris Wondolowski had in the past two months. And in case people aren't watching, he scores a lot of nice goals. People make it out like he's sitting in the box waiting for tap-ins to be gifted to him. Not the case.

    This would be a different argument if we had a stable of guys with the attributes you're describing. We don't. There are no Sergio Aguero's or Zlatan Ibrahimovic's waiting to be called up in Dallas and Chicago. There are question marks and maybe's.............
     
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  13. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not that I disagree with the general point on the specific players mentioned, but Brian McBride and Brian Ching prove MLS poachers can succeed at the next level (or are you considering those guys power guys?).

    And I don't think Cunningham ever really got a legit shot. Kries nor Buddle either. At least not to the extent others did (EJ, Twellman, Razov, Lassiter).

    And, keep in mind, the NT level is a level up from club, and a different situation to boot. Many players who are successful at one level (or in one situation/system) are not going to be successful at the next level (or in a different situation), regardless of where they play their club ball.
     
  14. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    People see an unfamiliar guy have a poor performance for the NT and they write him off completely. Wondo fluffed a sitter. So, for a lot of people, that's it. That defines him as a player. Hell, there were people on here saying that Shea should never get another look after his 1st 2 caps.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McBride and Ching are more than poachers.

    I don't think Wondo will be getting any more caps with the national team being headed by Klinsmann. He seems to appraise Agudelo and Bunbury as his MLS strikers. They have less goals but have played significantly less minutes than Wondo. They are also more than pure poachers.
     
  16. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We all know that people overrate youth and underrate veterans all the time. If Wondolowski was 21, he'd be the next superstar.

    I haven't seen anything from Wondolowski to think that he is anything more than a good MLS player, average national teamer. But I haven't seen anything from Doyle or Wood to show they are anywhere near deserving a cap.
     
  17. Jumbalaya

    Jumbalaya Member+

    Apr 27, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Sunderland AFC
    I'm not even sure you can say he's an average national teamer. The guy isn't cut out for international play.
     
  18. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    To me one of the most telling things against Wondo was a clip I saw of him training with the team during the Gold Cup. He simply didn't have the nimbleness and comfort turning with the ball and playing it fluidly that the other guys had.
     
  19. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Average national team forward? Seriously, that's a low bar to reach.
     
  20. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is a low bar. I still don't think he reaches it.
     
  21. pwoblo

    pwoblo Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Sometimes I think BS posters really believe international play is like a different sport to league play. Like instead of playing soccer, they do a decathalon.

    That's how I rationalize these comments about how some good player in league B would be worse in league A than a bad player from league B.
     
  22. pwoblo

    pwoblo Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Anyways, what about Geoff Cameron? He's: a top 20 or so MLS player, one of the youngest ever to get 100 mls caps, has played almost every position behind the front line and is 25 years old.

    He's always impressed me more than the other MLS central mids we have used (R clark, beckerman, larentowicz, mastroeni)
     
  23. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    It's been witnessed repeatedly. Really good players at a lower level doing well at a higher level is the exception more than it is the norm. Some people are better than others at picking out the likely exceptions, of course.
     
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Geoff Cameron should, and I believe will, get chances with the USMNT in the near future.

    He suffers a bit of Spector-itis.........in that people say he's very versatile and can play everywhere. Which is great, but is he one of our best options anywhere? Probably not..........

    I kind of like Cameron as a centerback, but I may be alone there.
     
  25. pwoblo

    pwoblo Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    No doubt. That sounds right to me.

    I'd just add that it's next to impossible for a bad player at lower level to do well at a higher level. I wll take my chances with the good player

    Of course there's plenty of luck to all this. Great players go through long slumps and bad players make miraclous plays for various reasons. Most of the time it's due to luck

    Anyways, MLS is really the same level competiton or higher than most of the teams the US international plays.... many concacaf stars are just another player in the MLS.
     

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