PBP: USWNT WWC '11 Final Roster

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kool-aide, May 9, 2011.

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  1. donaldball

    donaldball New Member

    Sep 24, 2009
    Based on the highlights posted earlier in this thread, it looks like Germany has clear advantages in the coordination of the attack in the final third, and in the quality of their finishes. Holy cats, they're going to have a good tourney.
     
  2. Crazy Old Lady

    Crazy Old Lady New Member

    May 22, 2003
    just outside Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta Beat
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Sorry you do not believe me but those statements were made on Fox5 Atlanta by Lloyd and Mitts and my hearing is very good.I was shocked that such statements were made.Yes the game today is more physical but this has led to a loss in ball skills ( that is why Marta's style/ball skills stand out above others ).Take as a contrast the play of Barcelona versus the physicality of the InterMilan style of play, both great teams but very different in style. It's hard to compare players from different eras but you do not denigrate their style of play and their achievements because the game has changed,the skill of the players back then was a pleasure to watch versus the most often used long ball style of today"s National Team.We have the skill players to take on defenses but do not use them enough.
     
  3. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like Ludvdagame says, yeah, who?

    Grings?! Hey, I like Grings but tell us why. She's done what at the World Cup and the Olympics? I'm sure she's done well at one or two Euros - but look, Germany as a team has pretty much overwhelmed everyone else at the last two Euros.

    I'm sure she's done great for her clubs including Women's Cup/Champions League. But there's such disparity in those leagues and tournaments -- except for a handful of games, the stronger teams are playing teams much weaker than themselves.

    Someone mentioned Kelly Smith. I love Kelly Smith. How long has it been since she's been a dominant player in major competition? 8 years or so back in the WUSA days?

    Sinclair? Love Sinclair too and it's no surprise that she and Marta make a great pairing and their team the dominant team in WPS. But before they were brought together for Gold Pride how did they do on their own? Marta's LA Sol was the runaway regular season champion (though losing the Championship) while Sinclair's Gold Pride finished at the bottom.

    In general, the interesting thing to note is how many of the great players, the truly standout players, have been around for a while. Batfink mentioned Prinz, Smith, Sawa, Ljungberg -- all of whom became stars in 2003 or before. We're talking a decade. Which was one of my points - that regardless of the national system, players like Marta arise unpredictably. They are a phenomenon, a once-a-decade sort of thing.
     
  4. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey I'm worried, too! But that's in my nature.

    But my God look at the defending in some of those highlights. Very poor from both Italy and Netherlands, neither of whom are preparing to be in the World Cup.

    The biggest talent advantage that Germany may have over the US? They have so many players who can shoot the ball. We talk about Carli Lloyd, and oftentimes the justification for her being on the team has centered on her shot, which we hope is on target on the day we need it. Germany seems to have 5 or 6 players on the field at any time who can shoot it like her and probably more reliably on target...
     
  5. donaldball

    donaldball New Member

    Sep 24, 2009
    I'm not worried, I flatter myself that I'm practical. I give us 1 in 10 odds of beating Germany in this World Cup if we play them.

    Your point on the defense is well taken, but I can't help but remember that this is an Italy side we struggled to score goals against.
     
  6. philafan

    philafan Member

    Mar 20, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Provide a link to video or some quotes or possibly the context for what they said and then I might believe you. I actually looked on Fox 5's website after you posted and found nothing.

    I'm pretty sure Mitts and Lloyd were not denigrating the 1999 players or their achievements but rather pointing out how much more competitive the game has become around the world.
     
  7. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    smith is severely lacking in the athleticism part of the package.

    sinclair has a clear deficit in the dribbling department, and quite some in the quickness.

    hope solo is a great gk. but she can't dribble a ball decently, and so wouldn't be compared at any time to a field player.

    really. these players are some distance behind marta.
     
  8. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    no?

    hadn't the uswnt beaten that same quality swedish outfit (that germany needed et to beat) 3-1 in that same wc?

    like clivew said. it's not something we remember or refer to often because we have such vitriol against heinrich, and disappointment for losing the semis.
     
  9. casocrfan

    casocrfan Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    San Francisco
    She's not the only player to quit because of her. Nikki Serlenga did so as well.
     
  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    What?

    Boy! And to think I got accused of going over the top. You need to get your lithium levels checked.


    she' the luckiest player on earth, then, since she has about twice as many international goals as Marta . (115 vs. 56)

    She's 27 and Marta is 25....Let's talk again when Marta gets 59 goals in the next 2 years.


    I've never heard anyone say she couldn't dribble before.
     
  11. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's never, ever gonna be another Marta so I don't know why people are trying to compare.

    I think what patrickwolf and others are trying to get at is that every top tier team in the world has a world-class player. Some have multiple (ex. U.S. and Germany). Brazil has Marta, England has Kelly Smith, Germany has Prinz and Angerer, U.S. has Wambach and Solo, etc.

    But I think what people are getting at is that there are some countries where you can see the replacement to these players: like Popp for Germany. But who for the U.S. is the eventual replacement of Wambach and Solo? People may argue that Wambach's replacement is Morgan or Cheney.. and Solo could be replaced by Heninger.

    The unsettling thing is that Pia is taking too long to allow these players to live up to their potential. While I don't know if Morgan should be getting a start since she has proven herself as a super-sub, waiting until the 75th minute to put her in every game is not going to allow her to grow.

    Look at what Silvia Neid has done for Germany. She has been giving young players like Bajramaj, Kulig, and Popp a lot of playing time lately and it's certainly paying its dividends. Bajramaj is poised to have a HUGE tournament. Why? Because she's grown immensely as a player since she began her time with the senior side 6 years ago. And she's only 22 years old. Being brought in so early is going to pay off big time for Germany this summer.

    I'm not saying we need to bring in 16 and 17 year olds. But Pia certainly should have been looking at players like Winters, Edwards, Engen, Taylor, LeRoux, Henderson, Heninger, etc. a lot closer than she actually did. It's going to come back and bite us since I expect players like Boxx, Wambach, and Rampone to retire pretty close to one another leaving very big shoes to fill for players with little experience.

    The U.S. likely won't find a "Marta-esque" player for a long time, if ever. But if Pia had handled the opportunity to develop her player pool better, we'd look much better off for the future.
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    When Grings was in the running for the Ballon d'Or, she was the leader for her club and international team in scoring. In the process she won the German cup, the women's uefa cup (old champions league), and the European championships with Germany. No mean feat considering she had to play more than 7 quality teams all season ;).

    In the same season Marta won hmmmmm........a WPS golden boot, and the (insert sponsored name here) WPS player of the season, plus we must never forget she kicked ass in the '07 WWC. So of course, as Marta plays in the states, and shone in the '07 WWC, lets round all those few months of club football accomplishment up to qualify Marta as the years best female player on earth :rolleyes:.

    You dismiss Grings based on the supposed lack of quality throughout the European game, but that's a pretty lazy assessment of things you obviously don't understand. Grings would have to play considerably better than your average player to accomplish all she did over the course of a long tough Euro season.

    Based on the way you and Luvdagame want to look at things, it seems you can only measure up to Marta based on what she accomplished during the '07 WWC onwards. But that doesn't make sense. Just because American players can't come close to Marta in WPS, with her '07 U.S. beat down clinic fresh in WNT fans memories, doesn't mean other nations players can't be better than her over the course of a season, a year, or longer.

    Remember Marta did play in Europe for quite a while before heading to the states. She never cruised through seasons. She never found herself routinely wining top uefa and domestic honors each and every season she was playing. For a supposedly weak continent, the games greatest player wasn't able to achieve what Grings did in a standout season with her club, and then her country.

    If the U.S. struggle with the idea of cultivating an American Marta level of player, don't just throw a blanket statement over questions to why the WNT program can't or wont do it. Marta may be once in a generation type player for what the U.S. system could hope to conceive, but it's too easy to think that everything we don't see must be way below anything to rival Marta.
     
  13. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, I know she's Portland and all that but still, c'mon, we can do better than this.

    I'm not even going to look it up but how many more international games has Sinclair played than Marta? And how many more of them were relatively meaningless friendlies? We all know Brazil doesn't get their team together until they have to distribute the airplane tickets every 4 years for the World Cup and then again the following year for the Olympics...

    Don't get me wrong. I think Sinclair is great. Definitely one of the top 5 or 6 international players to play in WPS for example and probably one of the top 10 players in the world.
     
  14. pattrickwolf

    pattrickwolf New Member

    Nov 7, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    HAHA, thanks for picking this one up. I didnt feel like explain the sport to the guy
     
  15. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Frankly I don't know what valid point the others have been making, but you're making a pretty good one.

    Still, isn't it interesting, the players whose name pops up are the same ones we've known for a decade or more? Kelly Smith. Prinz. Marta (almost 10 years; I think her breakout year was the 2003 World Cup when she was 17). Someone else mentioned Sawa.

    Wambach? No one else besides you even wants to throw her in that group which is ridiculous. I think that's telling.

    (by the way, I've heard great things about Yoreli Rincon from Colombia but of course no one thinks she has nearly as strong a supporting cast as Marta has with Brazil)

    (also by the way, I think the interesting area where Germany may be lacking a replacement is this - the passing central playmaker in the mold of Maren Meinert and Renate Lingor. Lingor is always overlooked, always in Meinert's shadow, but, for me, she was one of the key components of Germany's last two World Cup teams.)
     
  16. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What part of my rebuttal do you care to address?
     
  17. pattrickwolf

    pattrickwolf New Member

    Nov 7, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Have you ever watched any of these players play, Smith is a beast of a player. Quick, strong ok lets say she isnt athletic. Either is Paul Scholes Xavi, Alonso, Berbatov some of the top players in the world. Xavi could easily challenge Messi as the best in the world...Very silly rebuttle on ur part.

    Sinclair is one of the fastest players in the league. She is a beast.

    Marta has a different style of play thats like comparing Ronaldinho to Messi. Ronaldinho has the flashy passes moves and flair messi doesnt. Both will go down as some of the greatest, just different style.

    If Hope Solo wins a worldcup or 2 she will go down as the greatest goalie ever. Why can she not be put up there with some of the greatest soccer players. She is on the field, she is a player of the same caliber as Marta just different position.

    Please watch these players play b4 u make premature statments
     
  18. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008

    Nope, they have been replaced with Kulig (and Popp often plays in mid), with much success so far. we'll be seeing a lot of the two 21 years olds in the future.

    Did someone on here say Smith WAS NOT athletic? that's just cra cra. She's wildly athletic. fast, agile, athletic, strong- really amazing athlete.

    Foreverlost - thank you for bringing up Silvia's ability to develop her youth players into very good nat team players at the opportune age. It's going to help Germany win the WC, no doubt. It's another thing Pia fails at.
     
  19. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure there's a lot I don't understand about the European game and I don't mind someone enlightening me. And I like Grings to boot. But enlighten us. I don't see you telling us much.

    Are you seriously suggesting that the Frauen-Bundesliga has the same level of parity that existed in WPS its first couple years? Even in the Champions League (European Cup at the time), there's a huge disparity until you get to, what, the semifinals? Quarterfinals?

    If I'm wrong, enlighten me and the rest of us.

    Even so, let's say OK for one year Grings may have a case based on her treble. But really? In a World Cup year, you think we're unreasonable to think the World Cup is one of the key measures? Was Grings even on the World Cup squad (not that she didn't deserve to be but some kind of internal politics thing might've kept her out)
     
  20. philafan

    philafan Member

    Mar 20, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To say that the WNY Flash "could win with Marta, Sinclair and nine muppets" IS over the top, which is what you said.
    To say that Sinclair has a "deficit in the dribbling department" is a matter of debate that I'll leave to you two. But it's not a wild assertion like your statement.

    As for ForeverLost's sentiment that the WNT/Pia have missed a chance to give young players a chance to play, I'm not sure it will hurt the team when those vets retire. I would expect Britney Taylor and Whitney Engen to step in for Mitts and Rampone respectively next year without much problem. Both have received callups and Engen was capped. I don't think you need tons of caps at age 22 to be able to step in WNT. These particular kids got a chance to play U23 internationally and in WPS and some have received callups. You have to get thrown into the deep end at some point, whether you are 20 or 25.

    Becky Sauerbrunn didn't get a sniff of the WNT for a few years before getting capped this year at age 25 and now there is a large contingent of posters who thinks she's our best CB. So I don't think not being capped stunted her growth.

    And for those that didn't get the call at all, I'm not sure many of them earned it. Edwards is the glaring one to me. But Averbuch and Lindsey were ahead of her on Pia's depth chart (which I disagree with) so it was pretty crowded as the team was trying to figure out specific roles in the year leading up to WWC. I hope Edwards gets the call after WWC leading up to Olympics and think she'll be ready when that call does come. But sometimes you cannot find room for everyone.

    This is a legit philosophical difference and I completely understand your viewpoint. But the US is different than most other countries that have such young players suiting up for their national teams because our talent pool is so deep that you cannot possibly call up everyone, especially in the year leading up to the WWC and Olympics when you are trying to nail down roles for the players you have. They did manage to look at Nairn, Leroux, Farrelly, Klingenberg and Engen this year even though most had little chance to make the WWC team. Not sure of the exact nature of the German talent pool but I wonder even if that is as deep as the US program.

    On Alex Morgan, the problem with getting her more time is who do you lift. You have two other young forwards in ARod and Cheney who are only two years older than her that need to be evaluated and Abby needing time because she's coming back from injury. All three of those young players certainly played more when Abby was injured. But experimentation and developmental time in friendlies and smaller tourneys should not be emphasized in the year before WWC IMO. You've got to take a core 30 players or so and whittle it down to 21 for WWC and figure out a starting lineup and bench roles. Now did Pia take all the right players, that's another story.
     
  21. Crazy Old Lady

    Crazy Old Lady New Member

    May 22, 2003
    just outside Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta Beat
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This was posted yesterday on Facebook by Atlanta Women's Professional Soccer
    Hey fans! Be sure and watch FOX 5 Atlanta tonight at 6:50 PM/ET for interviews from practice today with Coach James Galanis, Heather Mitts, and Carli Lloyd talking about the upcoming Women's World Cup in Germany!! http://bit.ly/jB3o8D
    FOX 5 News teaser
    www.youtube.com
    Fox 5 News interviews Atlanta Beat head coach James Galanis, Heather Mitts, and Carli Lloyd

    This is all I can find am not too tech savvy but this was posted on Facebook yesterday prior to the interviews.Have no reason to lie about comments, am a Beat Fan who attends all home games and very vocally supports the players ,that is why I was so upset with the comments that were made, but you will believe what you want to. This is the response I had via statement from AWPS to my comment on their site which has since been deleted.

    Atlanta Women's Professional Soccer also commented on their link.
    Atlanta Women's Professional Soccer wrote: "Thanks for the comment Pam. Glad you had a chance to catch them on the news tonight. Of course, Carli and Heather have tons of respect for the path that was paved before them. They were simply stating that it is about time the USA retakes the crown. GO Beat"
     
  22. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love Kelly Smith and I have an England jersey with her name on it but seriously she's not the player she was 8 years ago. She does not take over crucial parts of the game the way she might've years ago or the way Marta still does now.
     
  23. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I may have changed my mind regarding Alex Morgan starting (and I don't think it's just because Brandi Chastain said it).

    The others who've been arguing for it may be right here. But a big factor for me is that she stepped into a major role for her WPS team and has done well, even in a couple games where Marta wasn't playing. *

    I don't know on that one. At the moment, I could go either way. But the way A-Rod is still so erratic about putting shots on frame... (but we always knew that, right?). In fact, I wish Pia had started Alex against Mexico.

    * (I wish Alex had even half a season's experience in WPS before this World Cup - that would've been helpful)
     
  24. philafan

    philafan Member

    Mar 20, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed on ARod. I personally would start Cheney to get some possession and ball movement going. When she entered that game Sunday, the complexion completely changed IMO. Using her size, strength and passing skills to create opportunities. She must has reversed the ball over to open space for the right wing four of five times in 30 minutes of play to create some excellent scoring chances. Not to mention that amazing goal.

    I would bring Alex off the bench for energy. I think she's tremendous; I just think Cheney offers more right now.
     
  25. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember Marta being a dominant player in the Damallsvenskan for Umeå. Didn't Umeå win a European Cup with her as well? (I don't remember)

    But if Marta didn't dominate in Europe playing for a Swedish team compared to some of the German teams, maybe you'll just have to take that up with some of the Swedish fans in these here parts as to why that might be... :)

    And again, are you going to tell us what Grings has done for her country at the World Cup or Olympics?
     

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