Alert: The offical "Fire Peter Vermes thread"

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Spoon, May 15, 2011.

  1. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually a few people here go to practice. One example somewhere in either this thread or the LA thread someone talked about our movement off the ball and Northbank responded that Vermes has them working on that fairly regularly.
     
  2. drhoades00

    drhoades00 Member

    Aug 13, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Dp_C6ZX6c&feature=related"]YouTube - Family Guy: The Real Article[/ame]
     
  3. Chairman Mau

    Chairman Mau Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    Birdland
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa

    hm, well i'm specifically talking about the... "every time i get the ball i'm going to send a cross into the box regardless of where i am on the field, and whether there's anyone up there" which actually seems to be getting WORSE.
     
  4. Moufwash

    Moufwash New Member

    May 26, 2009
    Prairie Village
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    doesnt help when the majority of your midfielders complete passes well below the mendoza line, i really think a great deal of the problems mentioned hinge on the midfields inability to dictate basically anything in the game.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah -- and its funny because we never see that out at Swope. Sean is down there a lot now, so is Thad. There is an odd disconnect out there somewhere.

    I wish I could tape a training session and show you.
     
  6. ShepDaddy23

    ShepDaddy23 New Member

    May 15, 2011
    Olathe, KS
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The fact is we do not have a credible midfield and that comes down to the TD and Coach who are both the same guy.

    I met Peter following the announcement to sell from Hunt and he seemed like a great guy but he is not getting things done now. Either move him back to TD and hire a coach or turnover the whole thing.
     
  7. Chairman Mau

    Chairman Mau Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    Birdland
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    oh yeah, and auvray shouldn't be out there. he's one of my favorite players on our team, so i don't know if it's the mask or what but he looked lost out there and clearly isn't in game form right now.
     
  8. kafka

    kafka New Member

    May 31, 2010
    Olathe
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get that teams do not always play the way they practice. The question becomes how do you get players to play what they practice? If the coach can't, do you get rid of the players that will not or replace the coach?

    I know which is easier.
     
  9. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    In terms of your question I think its a 50/50 -- the players are pros, they should do as they are asked, and the manager should be able to motivate them to do as much if they don't.


    I feel like they actually executed the practice today ..... maybe its just having the right players in there. In my opinion this is the first time we have been full strength all year. I still think I like Sapong as a CF better though ...
     
  10. the_cyclones

    the_cyclones New Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    The Cauldron
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ancelotti is available... :cool::D
     
  11. Silock

    Silock Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    KC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1-1-6. 4 points.

    Welcome to KC sports, folks.

    This city is crying for a winner. Instead, we're just crying.

    DO SOMETHING, OnGoal. Prove you want to field a winner and not just win at building fields.
     
  12. ryanhetu

    ryanhetu Member

    May 16, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quoting Peter Vermes from the most recent press conference "For 92 minutes and 35 seconds I thought we were very very good. If we continue to play like that, theres no doubt in my mind that we'll squeak out results here and there against teams for sure."

    Squeak out results here and there for sure? What? The guy has no confidence in the team or himself as a coach. Squeak out results? As in barely get by? Here and there? Barely get by and only some of the time? Thats weak.

    We want a winning team in Kansas City. Simple as that. I am behind Kansas City but not OnGoal. Not yet at least. Don't get me wrong. I'd like to be! I can't lie. I bought half season tickets in east stand and am not too proud of myself for doing so. We need more DP's. We need more midfielders. We need to stop lobbing the ball up the field and wishing for a miracle bounce. Really sad play last game except for the defense. Also can't stand Harrington's attitude on the field. I could go on. I'll stop.

    Go KC
     
  13. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's funny, James was at the same press conference and came away with a completely different feeling on Vermes.
    http://sportingtimes.net/articles/a-vote-of-confidence-in-peter-vermes/

    Results have shown that multiple DPs haven't exactly been the way to go about winning MLS Cups.
     
  14. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    DPs do not equal winning. How many MLS Cup titles do designated players have?
     
  15. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Does Landon Donovan count?
     
  16. ryanhetu

    ryanhetu Member

    May 16, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think multiple DP's alone would make us win but they couldn't hurt. We could use a good midfield DP. The Galaxy currently have two midfield DP's and one boy up top. Beckham, Donovan, Angel are all DP's and they all scored against us in one game. Thats more what I'm getting at. It's clear we need more guys with a sense of control on the ball like Bravo.

    Aside from that to me it's clear that coaching or some invisible voodoo casted on us is the problem. In public I stick with the former. I was only stating that more DP's after a coaching swap could be a good direction to go. This isn't sans the coaching debacle.
     
  17. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, they could. How many DPs have been a bust? They also take up nearly 400k of our cap space which means we would have to get rid of depth in order to create cap space to acquire one.
     
  18. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And before that game LA fans were wondering why the hell they were paying Angel DP money. One game doesn't change that fact.
     
  19. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    PV was the very essence of confidence. I wasn't the only one that came away charged up. I know Andy Edwards interpreted things the same way I did and he wasn't the only one.

    Truth

    We have no chance of a DP right now with our cap space unless we cut people. We cannot cut people with our already small squad. That is just a fundamental fact that anybody that writes about this team should appreciate. Even folk like Korede and Chance Myers will have a roll to play over the next few months.
     
  20. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is in regards to your blog post as well.

    he's selling it, and you're buying it... just like ownership did when they first hired him. i don't think there was ever a question of vermes believing in himself and his system... regardless of what some posters may have been suspecting in the past. it's what that confidence translates into on the field.

    you mention how vermes "picked up the pieces" after onalfo was canned. it's not like onalfo operated in a vacuum. vermes was responsible for those players being here during that time. he keeps making the same mistakes that onalfo kept making too. players playing wrong positions, bad starting lineups, bad substitution decisions.

    you're seriously advising that if we fail to make the playoffs again this year, vermes should still be given "well into next season?"
     
  21. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I have seen demoralized players and coaches before and this lot are just not there. If you want to take the time to come out to Swope, watch the guys train, attend the press conference and so on feel free to put in the time to make it happen, and then you can tell me what I am seeing.

    And yes I am aware of the TD time of Peter Vermes time with us. I have written extensively on it in the past saying that Peter Vermes has got all the rope he needs to hang himself. That said non of us has any insight on the relationship between Onalfo and Vermes. Did Onalfo insist on certain players, or did Vermes foist players on Onalfo? Given than Vermes basically wiped the slate clean and started again I would suspect the former but unless you have an idea of the dynamic between the two we really have no idea. Given that I'd rather think of Vermes of as a Manager that started his job on August 3rd 2009.

    I fundamentally believe NOW is premature and I believe given that how the season has been setup for failure that the remainder of the season is also not enough.

    Nothing is ever born out of impatience and inconsistency at any level in a team. I just am not ready to go for a third coach in three seasons, I don't think anybody better than Peter Vermes is out there, I do believe that the 10 game road trip the FO lobbied for is something that was not in the interests of the playing performance of the team and I watched tactical changes (the team dropped 10-15 yards back) worked out in training yield very positive results in Seattle. Players that have lost the coaching staff do not go out and execute exactly what they were asked to.

    Training attitudes are excellent, everybody but the benched Santos looks to be working very hard and the entire vibe at Swope park is of a massive build up of potential energy that is going to be unleased on somebody soon.

    Right now I believe that Peter Vermes is the man for the job and given that I believe that he should be given a proper run at things. Now obviously is performances spiral out of control and we are getting whooped at home this changes.

    I don't ask you to agree -- while there is a ground swell of people wanting a coach fired you don't write the opposing position and expect people to be enthusiastic about things, especially regarding Sporting Kansas City fans on BigSoccer where the tagline could be changed to 'Hysterical Blindness' and it'd ring true for a large chunk of the posters. I'm not running for office, I'm not doing the populist thing to earn cheap hits and shill advertising, its just my opinion.
     
  22. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i wasn't telling you what to think or trying to deny what you're seeing. i'm saying that i don't give a rat's ass about that if it doesn't translate into results on the field.... and so far, it's not translating into anything positive on the field.

    so, if vermes wasn't the manager, and was still only in his td position, how would you feel about his job? say the new manager he had hired (instead of himself) had produced the same quality of play and results that vermes has. if we fail to make the playoffs again, don't you think after 5 full seasons of failure under his directorship that it was time enough to move on? 5 years is plenty in terms of having consistency. he's had the chance to hire 2 managers and we haven't progressed at all as an organization on the field in that time.

    this means nothing to me, and frankly, is irrelevant. it's not your job to know of anyone. you may fancy yourself a knowledgeable blogger, but it's up to ownership and robb heineman to know of anyone better than vermes out there. i'm SURE there's someone out there better for the job, you just don't know of them... which isn't a knock on you. like i said, it's not your job, so it's no surprise you don't know of anyone better. it is a knock, however, to presume that one doesn't exist when you aren't privy to that sort of information.

    and if ongoal is so committed to being such a great organization, why do these positions have to be filled with people who are currently unemployed? outside of rare instances, there's usually a good reason why these individuals are unemployed. conversely, good managers get poached from successful teams all the time. ongoal may be willing to dump some change for a dp, but so far, they've done the coaching/management side on the cheap... and the results have followed.

    who said you were? we just have opposing opinions on this matter.
     
  23. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would love for OnGoal to attempt to pouch Stevie Nichol or Dominic Kinnear from their prospective jobs. I think Nichol would be doable because he would be coming to a better situation with more committed employers, an SSS, and a nice practice facility.
     
  24. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Do we really see much intra-MLS movement of coaches?

    For me I have no real idea about who is obtainable and who might realistically want to come here.
     
  25. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Honestly I don't know because the definition of what a TD does seems to change from team to team and it is a position I don't believe in anyway. It just seems to add an extra layer to things. If a team believes in a coach the coach should be able to select his tactics, and his personnel, and his training methods and in that light I am not sure what a TD would actually do and where the overlap is ....

    ... I feel like coaches out there certainly have been undermind by poor TDs but as I said earlier I am not sure who did what with KC and therefor its hard to judge. Obviously if the TD is hiring the coaches as PV did with Onalfo then after the second you have to ask questions but without knowing how things work behind the scenes its hard to pass judgement for good or for bad.

    We'll just have to disagree here -- I really do believe if you are going to publically call for the head of anybody based on their performance you should have an idea about who you would like to step into their shoes. I mean really I have yet to see a plausible nomination from anybody and given that this community tend to have their eyes open to the remainder of the football world (or at least large elements of it) I think it is rather telling that there isn't strong candidates that are leaping forward.

    I have often argued that spending on good coaches in the long term may well be a better investment than spending on DP's -- I really had not considered that we might pursue somebody that was already employed though, maybe because I normally think of MLS as a place to be fed upon rather than doing the feeding ...
     

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