Greatest Generations in Football's History

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by msioux75, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Read my post properly. Maybe your understanding of English isn't good enough. I didn't say that all of those names were in great form. I'm saying that there were many stars and yet they didn't play well. At least schweppe understood. You should give Matthaeus more credit. He became a more offensive player once he moved to Inter. lanman is right.

    Brazil had Careca, Alemao and Romario. Romario wasn't 100 per cent fit.

    Holland had R Koeman, Van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaard. None of them were in great form.

    Uruguay had Francescoli, Ruben Sosa, Carlos Aguilera and Ruben Paz. Did any of them play a starring role?

    Italy played Vialli who had a big name and he flopped.

    Romania had Hagi and other players who starred at USA 94 but they didn't do much at Italia 90.

    Only Caniggia sprung to life at Italia 90. Goycoechea was the surprise star. Maradona, Burruchaga and most of the other players from Mexico 86 weren't any good.

    Aside from Michel, who played well for Spain? Salinas? Butregueno? Bakero?

    Scotland had Ally McCoist, Mo Johnston and Paul McStay. They didn't do much.

    John Barnes was a big name in England yet it was David Platt and Paul Gascoigne who emerged as stars.
     
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    WC Italy 1990

    Top-Ten NTs around 1990

    These are the best ELO coefficients for NTs between 1989-91:

    W.GERMANY = 2051
    NETHERLANDS = 2020
    ITALY = 1999
    BRASIL = 1995
    ENGLAND = 1966
    SOVIET UNION = 1966
    ARGENTINA = 1949
    YUGOSLAVIA = 1941
    SPAIN = 1937
    ROMANIA = 1911


    PS: I pick Romania (20 points lower) instead Sweden for Top-10


    Closer level: with at least 100 points lower.
    Sweden, France, Mexico, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Uruguay, Ireland, Colombia, Paraguay.
     
  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    WC Italy 1990

    Top-4


    WEST GERMANY
    World class: Matthäus, Hassler
    International class: Köpke, Buchwald, Kohler, Brehme, A.Möller, Völler, Klinsmann

    Formation:

    ---------------------- Köpke
    Berthold ----- Buchwald ----- Kohler ----- Brehme
    --------- Matthäus ----- O.Thon
    ----- Hassler -------------------- A.Möller
    ----------- Völler ------- Klinsmann

    Subs: Immel; Reuter, Helmer; Eilts; U.Rahn; Kuntz, Riedle



    NETHERLANDS
    World class: R.Koeman, Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten
    International class: van Breukelen, Blind, Winter, Wouters, Kieft

    Formation:

    --------------- van Breukelen
    van Aerle ----- Blind ----- R.Koeman ----- Winter
    -------- Wouters ----- Rijkaard
    ----- Gullit -------------------- Vanenburg
    -------- van Basten ------- Kieft

    Subs: Menzo; Silooy, Valckx; Jonk; Rob Witschge; van't Schip, Bosman



    ITALY
    World class: Baresi, Maldini, R.Baggio
    International class: Zenga, Bergomi, Costacurta, Ferrara, Donadoni, Zola, Vialli

    Formation:

    ---------------------- Zenga
    Bergomi ----- Costacurta ----- Baresi ----- Maldini
    ------------ Berti ----- de Napoli
    ----- Donadoni ------------------- Zola
    -------------- R.Baggio
    ------------------------ Vialli

    Subs: Galli; Ferrara, de Agostini; di Livio, Giannini; Mancini, Schillachi



    BRAZIL
    World class: Branco, Careca, Bebeto, Romario
    International class: Jorginho, Julio Cesar, Aldair, Ricardo Rocha, Dunga, Alemao, Valdo, Rai

    Formation:

    ----------------------- Carlos
    Jorginho ----- Julio Cesar ----- R.Rocha ----- Branco
    ----------- Dunga -------- Alemao
    ----- Valdo-------------------------- Rai
    ---------- Bebeto ------- Romario

    Subs: Gilmar; Josimar, Aldair; C.Sampaio; Silas; Renato Gaucho, Careca
    .
     
  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    WC Italy 1990

    Others NTs generations around 1990

    ENGLAND:
    Seaman, Adams, Walker, Pearce, Platt, Waddle, Gascoigne, Lineker, Barnes


    SOVIET UNION:
    Dasaev, O.Kuznetsov, Rats, Aleinikov, Litovchenko, Zavarov, Mikhailichenko, Dobrovolski, Korneev, Protasov


    ARGENTINA:
    Pumpido, Goycochea, Ruggeri, Sensini, Batista, Burruchaga, Maradona, Caniggia, Beto Acosta


    YUGOSLAVIA:
    Djukic, Jarni, Katanec, Stojkovic, Boban, Savicevic, Pancev


    SPAIN:
    Buyo, Zubizarreta, Sanchis, Hierro, Bakero, Michel, Martin Vazquez, Butragueño


    ROMANIA:
    Lung, Petrescu, Belodedici, G.Popescu, Lupescu, Mateut, Hagi, Lacatus
    .
     
  5. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    You should take Di Livio out. He wasn't even a Serie A player at the time. I'm suprised that Galli is in the team. He was 32 years old at the time. You should have put in Pagliuca.
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    I guess you completely missed on watching the actual WC...Brazil sucked every match except against Sweden, who were the biggest flop of the Cup anyways. There is no way they should be classified ast top 4 by any criteria. To me it's Italy, Netherlands, Argentina and Germany.

    Also, Bergomi and Giannini were world class players for Italy circa those times.
     
  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    You're right dor, Di Livio doesn't belong to WC'90 generation, since he had 20 years old by that time. My mistake :eek:

    I replaced him on the bench for a DM: Conte or Marocchi.

    Pagliuca would be mentioned for the next 2 generations, since he was GK and born in 1966.
     
  8. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    Between Brazil & Argentina there is 50 points of difference. So is a closer one. On paper, Brazil had a better generation of players by that time, IMO.

    Argentina's peak in that period was Copa America's victory in 1991, since they failed on Copa America 1989 and its record at WC was 2-3-2 (penalties definition counts like a draw)

    About Brazil, since its Copa America's victory in 1989, they only lossed one game, until reached its highest ELO in this period after WC 1st round.

    That's the explanations i can support for theirs ELO, but is very closer.


    About the italians, Giannini certainly would be International class rated.
    But, Bergomi in the same level of Baresi, Baggio & Maldini. I have my doubts about it.
     
  9. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    Brazil got all three wins in the group stage because they played crap teams, they would have lost to Cameroon had they been in Argentina's group. And don't forget they lost to Argentina, yet you are still putting behind them.

    Italy had, in my opinion, its greatest generation of players during this time, with a core group of legends in Baggio, Maldini, Baresi, Bergomi, Giannini and Donadoni supplemented with some superb players in Ancelotti, Zenga, De Napoli, Vialli, Mancini, Vierchowod, Carnevale, Zola, Serena, Benarrivo, Tasotti, Costacurta, Schillachi and Evani. They were extremely unlucky not to win anything: In Euro 88, they reached the semis but were upset by the USSR, and of courre in WC 90 at home, destiny would have them go to Napoli to the temple of the god Maradona and it was over for them. In 94 they reached the final and lost out in penalties to Brazil. Penalties was their undoing, had they won the shootouts versus Argentina and Brazil, they could have claimed two WC championships (Italy always beats Germany, more so at home).
     
  10. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    Conte was 21 at the time. Marocchi would fit into this team better.
     
  11. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    Thanks mate!

    I also wasn't sure about put de Napoli & Berti in the 1st line of midfield. Since i think that they were more like a box-to-box mid. Same role of Tardelli.
     
  12. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Re: WC Italy 1990

    They were either box-to-box midfielders or wide midfielders. De Napoli was usually a right midfielder when he played for the Azzurri, especially under Vicini.
     
  13. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Wc usa 1994

    Top-Ten NTs around 1994

    These are the better ELO coefficients for NTs between 1993-95:

    BRASIL = 2085
    ITALY = 1995
    GERMANY = 1994
    ARGENTINA = 1983
    NETHERLANDS = 1962
    SPAIN = 1956
    SWEDEN = 1947
    DENMARK = 1929
    FRANCE = 1919
    COLOMBIA = 1911



    Closer level: with at least 100 points lower.
    England, Russia, Serbia, Croatia, Czech Rep., Switzerland, Romania, Mexico, Bulgaria
     
  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Wc usa 1994

    Top-4


    BRAZIL
    World class: Cafu, Rivaldo, Bebeto, Romario
    International class: Taffarel, Aldair, Leonardo, Mauro Silva, Rai, Edmundo

    Formation:

    ----------------- Taffarel
    Cafu ----- R.Gomes ----- Aldair ----- Leonardo
    ------- Mauro Silva -------- Mazinho
    ----- Rai ------------------------ Rivaldo
    --------- Bebeto ------- Romario

    Subs: Zetti; Ze Maria, Marcio Santos; C.Sampaio; Silas; Edmundo, Elber



    ITALY
    World class: Maldini, R.Baggio
    International class: Zenga, Costacurta, Ferrara, Albertini, Zola, Signori

    Formation:

    ---------------------- Zenga
    Benarrivo ----- Costacurta ----- Ferrara ----- Maldini
    ------------ Albertini ----- D.Baggio
    ----- R.Baggio -------------------- Zola
    ----------- Mancini -------- Signori

    Subs: Pagliuca; di Matteo, Pessotto; di Livio, Berti; Casiraghi, Schillachi



    ARGENTINA
    World class: Redondo, Batistuta
    International class: Goycochea, Sensini, Cáceres, Simeone, Caniggia

    Formation:

    --------------- Goycochea
    Vivas ----- Sensini ----- F.Cáceres ----- Chamot
    -------- Simeone ---------- Redondo
    ----- Latorre -------------------- L.Rodriguez
    ---------- Caniggia ------- Batistuta

    Subs: Islas; F.Basualdo, S.Vazquez; Franco; Gorosito; Balbo, Beto Acosta



    GERMANY
    World class: Sammer, Hassler
    International class: Illgner, Köpke, Kohler, Effenberg, A.Möller, Scholl, Bierhoff, Klinsmann


    Formation:

    ------------------ Illgner
    Reuter ----- Kohler ----- Helmer ----- Ziege
    --------- Effenberg ------- Sammer
    ----- Hassler -------------------- A.Möller
    ---------- Bierhoff ------- Klinsmann

    Subs: Köpke; Strunz, Linke; O.Thon; Scholl; Kirsten, Riedle
    .
     
  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Wc usa 1994

    Others NTs generations circa 1994

    HOLLAND:
    Winter, F.de Boer, Vanenburg, Cocu, Witschge, Bergkamp, van Basten


    SPAIN:
    Zubizarreta, Sanchis, Abelardo, Sergi, Guardiola, Hierro, Luis Enrique, Fran, Amavisca


    SWEDEN:
    P.Andersson, Thern, Limpar, H.Larsson, Brolin, Dahlin, K.Andersson


    DENMARK:
    Schmeichel, Helveg, Nielsen, M.Laudrup, B.Laudrup


    FRANCE:
    Angloma, Desailly, Blanc, Lizarazu, Deschamps, Djorkaeff, Cantona, Ginola


    COLOMBIA:
    Higuita, J.Bermudez, L.Alvarez, Rincon, Asprilla, Aristizabal
    .
     
  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Wc usa 1994

    A few comments below.

    Brazil: Mauro Silva, Leonardo and Jorginho were world class. The extremely overrated Cafu was a sub during WC94, and he followed it with a mediocre CA 95 and a poor spell in Spain, before finally lifting his level during the 97-98 season.

    Italy: Albertini, Bergomi and Ferrara were world class, and Schillachi was in Serie B by this time.

    Argentina: Caniggia was world class, in fact much better than Batistuta for the NT. Also Simeone was world class, and would only improve his level in the years to come.

    Germany: Klinsmann was world class, five goals in WC94 and four in Euro96 should be enough to confirm that. So was Effenberg, who was actually better than Sammer for the NT, I think banning him was a huge mistake by the German Federation and their NT paid for it in both WCs 94 and 98.
     
  17. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Re: WC USA 1994

    Thanks for your comments, mate:

    About Giuseppe Bergomi, he's only picked as part of the 86' & 90' generations, because the rule of #1 post
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1381429

    For the category world-class, i tried to mean, a top-100 legendary player material. From the names you listed: Albertini, Caniggia, Simeone, Klinsmann & Effenberg could make room for that status, IMO.

    BTW, i considered for the starters & subs formations, the status players in an overall career, not for their actual level in that year.
     
  18. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: WC USA 1994

    Ok, understood, so Cafu should then be labeled world class. However, I would still place Jorginho as world class, and possibly Leonardo and Mauro Silva. Ferrrara also had an amazing career, somehow didn't much feature as a starter for the Azzurri, but lesser right-backs such as Tasotti and Mussi did.
     
  19. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Re: WC USA 1994

    I pick Jorginho for the 86' & 90' generations, but also could be part of 94' generation, since he was 30 years old.
     
  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    These are the top-10 ELO coefficients between 1907-09:
    England - 2017
    Denmark - 1865
    Netherlands - 1862
    Argentina - 1835
    Boheme - 1764
    Scotland - 1744
    Belgium - 1733
    Uruguay - 1675
    Hungary - 1653
    South Africa

    My top-4 circa 1908 would been: England, Denmark, Boheme & Scotland

    I'd replace Boheme x Argentina, since Slavia Praha was the most dominant continental club at those times.

    BOHEME:
    ---------------------- Jenik
    ------------- Benda ----------– Vesely
    ----- Kovarovic ---– Kotouc --------– Jetel
    Baumruk --– Belka –-- Freja --– Kosek --- Macoun

    Subs: Semansky - Hrabe - Rezek, Vosatka - Maly, Stary, Valasek
    (Stars = Kosek, Benda, Vesely, Belka, Freja)
     
  21. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    a small thing i wnat to say.

    by holland 1974 you put in worldclass not van hanegem.

    big big mistake and also simply wrong.

    van hanegem was by all standards worldclass
     
  22. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I heard that from some dutch friends, so it's fair comment.
    Sadly i can't edit the post.
    But, i agree to move van Hanegem to wc players alongside Neeskens, Krol, etc.
     
  23. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Boheme is Austria or Czescolovakia?
     
  24. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    yes he truly was. most dutch people above the age of 40 rank him behind cruyff as the best dutch player ever.
    he was very very complete player.
    he had very good passing and technique and overview and game intelligence.
    but also he could head very well and tackle also could be a mean player if nescassery and was not afraid to work hard or to use some vilence when the game required it.
     
  25. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru

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