Clubs have been lining up this same way against us last season and we have been clueless as to how to break them apart. I have seen a lot of suggestions that changing our formation to 4-4-2 or something else will solve our problems, but will it solve our problem? I do think that the root cause of our problem is that number 2, 3, 7 and 9 just aren't giving us the width we need to break down opponents. Number 7 and 9 in particular has been rather ineffective while the delivery from 2 and 3 are subpar. Something to think about, do we need new wingers and full backs?
You could have picked a better title for this (looked like it was another Wenger Out thread). The problem with our play is that there is not enough movement from our players in the final third. We are slow in the attack which allows the opponent to get a lot of players back, and then everyone stands still and expects the player on the ball to pick them out despite the 7 bodies in the way. Teams just have to get players back and wait for us to attempt an incredibly difficult pass, which, unsurprisingly, fails 9 out of 10 times. We need to have multiple players make themselves available for a pass - which is what makes Barca's passing game so much more effective. They always have options, and always have an easy outlet.
Well, we went to a 4-3-3 because our 4-4-2 wasn't giving us enough width. You are right, though, that we are not getting the width either from Clichy or Sagna or whoever it is lines up in your 7 and 9 positions. The guiding principle of defense is to cluster and deny space so that the passing lanes clog. The guiding principle of attack to spread out and attack space, forcing the defense to react. The formation you have illustrated shows that we don't do that well and we make the defense's job much easier. The first problem we have is that Clichy and Sagna are not good at providing width. Sure, they are indefatigable chugging up and down the touchlines, but they are not dangerous. At all. Other teams, esp Man Utd, love to see us run the touchlines and they willingly cede that ground to us because Clichy and Sagna can't do much when they get the ball wide in the opponent's third. Think back a couple of years to our Chelsea game where Bosingwa got free along the right side, drove in a low, hard cross to the near post where Drogba was charging, and Djourou had to play the ball. Only place he could play the ball was into our net. Own goal and a Chelsea win. We rarely get crosses into the box, be it on the ground or in the air, that challenge the defense. And the players who occupy your 7 and 9 are not wide players either. Theo offers pace, but he's not a wide player. We've seen too much of Arshavin (nominally out wide) and Nasri out there. They don't stay wide, and unlike an Iniesta who starts wide and cuts in, AA and Nasri don't seem effective moving against the grain as it were. Bendtner, who is not a wide player at all, at least gives is a go. But then we see Clichy's one good cross a game and wonder why Bendtner wasn't in the middle to make the play. The one quality attacker we have, van Persie, can play the middle best of all if we are clicking one-touch inside the box, is not a true central striker and would be best on the wing. The 4-4-2 won't help much. So we stick with our nominal 4-2-3-1 Seems to me the best option would be to get one true wide player, cost be damned, and try to upgrade over Song. Then we'd line up as: Keeper -- Chesney He's shown enough progress to merit a season long look. Back Four -- What he have now. If we didn't get a new CB with us in contention and Vermaelen out, we certainly won't spend money on a CB with Vermaelen and Djourou coming back. Midfield -- Song has improved nicely -- there was a time when I thought he was the worst ever player to wear an Arsenal jersey -- but he's not good enough. We don't need cover for him, we need him to BE the cover. Go with two defensive, deeper lying midfielders, Song's upgrade and Nasri (presuming Cesc leaves). Attack -- Play van Persie and our new wide player out wide. van Persie can play either side, so we can get the best available wide player. Play Arshavin the hole behind the striker. We ain't going to get much for AA at this point in his career, so if we're going to be stuck with him, play him all season in his best spot. Striker -- We've got Chamakh and Walcott. Chamakh has a nose for goal and he gets more than a year to settle in. Or we finally see if Walcott is the striker Wenger talked about. Walcott's no winger, let's see what his pace can do for us as the focus of the attack. Bench -- Wilshere and Ramsey will get lots of playing time rotating between Nasri and Arshavin. I would make a point of subbing Wilshere in at the 60 minute mark every game, making him a 12th starter like Aragones did with Cesc in 2008 Euros. If Cesc stays, we're just that much stronger in the middle. Eboue and Walcott are the secondary wingers, just like they've been their entire Arsenal careers. That's it: two players and I think we could reinvent this team, otherwise it's going to be more of the same. Chesney is young and not the finished article, and both Cesc and van Persie miss stunningly large chunks of the season, and that's not going to change. I like Vermaelen and Koscielny, but without a top DMid in front of them, they are, at the best of times, merely good. And Vermaelen's got the Arsenal injury bug. I'm not confident.
can you stop with this van Persie out wide stuff? he doesnt have the speed to beat English fullbacks out wide, he has shown that a lot... h that, and he is one of the best strikers in the league... keep him up front... he scores goals outside of that, I agree with some of your post, and some I dont agree with... especially the Chamakh has a nose for goal... he doesnt... his natural instinct is to bring the midfield in, not score goals
Actually, I'm a proponent of the sell-van Persie mindset; I've not spent much time advocating for him to be out wide. I think speed is overrated when looking at player and team effectiveness and van Persie is still effective out wide, more than any other player we've got. And I'm not too worried about him getting goals because he does support the cross off the ball from the wide position like no one else on this team. Given Wenger and the state of our finances, what's your proposal to fix this team? Or do you want to continue playing narrow, slow football and pray that van Persie stays healthy?
I actually think that the best solution to our attacking problems is to get rid of Clichy; people complain about his defensive lapse but they seem to ignore how bloody awful his delivery is and how little width he provides. Sagna at least has improved a lot in his delivery this season, but Clichy has gone from bad to worse.
when? he is a center striker, a damn good one... and if you sell van persie, you have to replace him... the club hasnt shown its willing to spend on a world class striker because thats what van persie is when he plays my solutions: i want us to play more direct... im tired of this this tippy tappy football... its like Arsenal went back to the 80s and 90s, while the rest of the world are playing a power game... the way Arsenal used to play under Wenger... we need some athletes... formations mean little if you have the players... I think Wenger needs to put it in Nasri's head that he is fast, and that he should use it... we need to just play more direct and need more speed out wide
agreed - we need players who can play in at least 35 games a season. either improve the quality of depth and rotate everyone in a better fashion or get players who can last a 50 game season. RVP is not getting any younger and his ability to play in 25 to 30 games is not enough if you want to win trophies. it is enough if you want to finish in the top 4 - so if we're content with that - let's maintain the status quo...
Walcott is a bad winger, really? I thought he was doing well out wide from what I recall. He can't score goals, so how exactly would he be a good striker?
OK, for the purposes of this thread, I'm no longer advocating selling van Persie. I don't think it is going to happen, so I'm off that soapbox (for now, until he gets injured again). We can go one of two ways: get better at playing tippy tappy or we can more direct. What I proposed was a way to better utilize the players we have with a minimum need for more player purchases, since that is not going to happen either. van Persie can play the tippy tappy game as a central striker. Nasri and Arshavin have the requisite ball skills to do so, but it's not in their makeup to excel, and they just aren't effective out wide. You watch more Arsenal than do, and if you say that Nasri is really fast, I'll believe you, but I don't think he's going to use that speed a la an Overmars (and TBH, no one is expecting him to have that kind of speed) or even an Ljungberg. If you don't van Persie can play wide, then we need two wide players who are better than Walcott. Walcott brings world class speed and decent enough finishing on the break, but not much else. Eboue has become a trusted squaddie, so we've got backup. Do you see Wenger getting two top flight wide men in the next year? I don't. Even if we sold Cesc (and with his injuries and relatively poor year, I think he less value than he did last year, and with the continued development of Busquets, Barca need Cesc even less) Wenger has shown he's willing to bank the transfer fees. One wide player means we still another season of Arshavin on the wing, and if we're stuck with him, that's just not where I want to see him. You don't like my assertion that RvP can be effective wide. I watch Arsenal passively, I guess, and I can't remember him super effective or a super dud out wide. But I know it's not in Arshavin's footballing DNA.
van persie is the best lone striker in the prem (when fit) if anything we need a direct left winger to go byline as an option atm we have too many congesting the midfield and not enough directness, look at the diff theo makes when we attack when he plays
........VanPersie Nasri...........Walcott ...........Cesc ...Wilshire...Song That midfield and attack above is stellar and is definitely not the problem imo. The defense and keeper need upgrades and that's the only thing keeping the team from dominance. If Cesc does leave, I would slot Nasri in his place and spend big on a player that can fill the outside role. A big name like Robben or Neymar.
I think the hope was that Vela would be that player but unfortunately he hasn't been able to put it together. It seems that the next generations of young players coming through have more size and athleticism to go with all the technical skill so maybe we will see a return to the faster game the "Invincibles" played in the next few seasons.
IMO that's been more of a collected team effort, especially with coverage of Song and Wilshire. too often when they concede it's been mental lapses in the defense
Idk, I think it's because of how good Kos/Djourou have been together I still am not entirely convinced by our team defending However, my point was more about how not brill our attack is...
I wonder if Walcott wouldn't surprise at center forward. He makes some nice plays with his back to the goal, and it gives him freedom to run left or right. I would experiment with it if we have nothing to play for.
A lot of people like to rip Sagna and Clichy for their poor wide play, but I don't see enough of our attackers making meaningful runs in the box for crosses on a consistent basis, nor do I see those same players showing any sort of clinical finishing in those positions.
The problem (with Clichy at least) is that he plays the ball in the box anyway Sagna doesn't do that as much anymore...
so is the general consensus that we would have won on saturday with better attacking fullbacks? Everything came down to two players? Really?