Dealing with bigger & tougher players

Discussion in 'Player' started by Effington, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Effington

    Effington Member

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Hey guys,

    I was invited to a game with my friend's team and had an interesting experience. His team was in a tougher division than mine with generally bigger and stronger players.

    I'm a very fast player with pretty decent skills, but have the unfortunate predicament of being a man in a child's body. My short legs and extremely light frame make it easy for me be shifty and get around people, but at the same time they're going to be able to push me off the ball. Think of me like Shaun Wright-Phillips, but even smaller and lighter. Every player in the league has somewhere between 50-100 pounds on me.

    Anyway, in my league I'm very successful because it's generally a less aggressive league. However, in this game, the players were quite physical and were pushing me off the ball. A firm shoulder check from a player 100 pounds heavier than me is going to knock me down, and that's essentially what happened all day. I had very little success, and am a bit sore now.

    So the question is, how do I counter this? I'm not a weak person; I work out every day and am in great shape. But someone who is also in decent shape and twice my weight is going to have no problem bullying me around. I'd hate to think that my bad luck in the gene pool eliminates me from this kind of competition...do you guys have any suggestions?
     
  2. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    This is difficult without seeing the play. Beat them with your brain instead of your muscle.

    If they are taller than you, use your advantage--which is a low center of gravity, giving you better balance. Keep low. Make them lean down to shoulder charge and it will put them off balance.

    Make yourself a harder target by turning or changing pace. They cannot charge you if you are not there. Learn to draw the foul. This will force them to approach more carefully.

    Don't try to match strength to strength against someone much stronger. Turn away from them and they cannot shoulder charge. You don't have to turn much, just enough to take the power off any contact. Or take a little sidestep. Turning away from them makes them run farther than you just to keep even with you.

    Keep at it and you will learn how to adapt. Essentially you need to create more space for yourself. Watch some youtube clips of Maradona.
     
  3. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm kinda in the same boat 5'8" (on a good day;) and 170 lbs.

    If it's not your game to bang with the big boys, it's not your game. That's the beauty of soccer, there are other ways to crack the nut.

    I am however having trouble with the "dimensions" of these other guys. Hypothetically, let's say you weigh 120, so there are guys in the 220 range in your league? Barring the occasional genetic freak who can really move at that weight, from experience most guys that weight are over-weight soccer players.

    Anyway, my advice might come across as insulting but it's really not. I have the highest regard for these players and I wish more guys would play like this. My advice is play like a girl. Like a good, female collegiate player.

    In a good, competitive coed league the women are always at a disadvantage. But the women on our team were really good and it was because they would never let the faster, stronger guys catch them with the ball at their feet. The moment you even got a yard close the ball would be gone. No ego, the decision making was fast. There's not much they can do about 50/50 balls so they concede the 50/50 and get in good defensive positions.
     
  4. HOTSHOTGELLER

    HOTSHOTGELLER New Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Play safe at any cost.

    Not worth trying to be the bigger person by charging in head first for medicine balls. Try rolling off of their body when they attempt shoulder checks. You may only be successful doing so by anticipating their moves, which in any case you still have to use your brain more than your body.
     
  5. Becks7

    Becks7 Member

    Dec 6, 2000
    Hong Kong
    You have to be selective and pick your battles.

    If you have the back to the goal or are in a position where it requires some physicality, you might have to rely on getting rid of balls quickly by opening other players up or supporting.

    Your strength should lie in 1 v 1 situations where you need to exploit bigger/slower defenders. As well maybe your off the ball work will need to be pinnacle where you can lose players with your agility.
     
  6. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    I'm a small forward. When I'm in a situation where I see the defender is much bigger than I am I like to take him for some uselss runs. You know, the ball is 60 yards away and you decide to make a mad 50-yard sprint. I'll even sprint to the other side to see if he'll follow me.

    You have endurance; he doesn't. Wear him out.
     
  7. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    From my experience, if they are bigger and stronger than you, you need to use more of your speed. In addition, you have to shield better and lower your center of gravity, when you are facing these players. The end result is that for them to dislodge you, they have to literally shove you, which will be a call against them. So, while size and strength matter, it is really how you use what you have.
     
  8. strike

    strike New Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's another perspective. I'm one of those giants. I'm a 6'3, 240lb center-back and you bet I use my size to my advantage, it's a viable tool that gets me quite a few stops when needed. (I get very few fouls by the way, I play clean).

    I love little forwards I can intimidate. I find most of it psychological actually. I make sure right off the bat my first challenge is hard and strong. Again, I don't foul, but I let him know right away, this MY turf and you will feel my presence for the next 90 minutes.

    This is a critical moment. This is where that forward makes a decision for the rest of the game. He will either stand-up to me, or crumble. I would say 60% of strikers crumble after that (psychologically). They are the one's who get sloppy when they see me running at them like a bull. They either immediately pass the ball or freeze when I close in. These are the one's I love.

    This is not about size! The other small strikers, the one's who do not crumble, smirk after that first challenge and can't wait for me to try that again. They look at my first hard challenge as a "show of hand". These are the dude's that worry me. Because next time, they get low, change pace and change direction. They use those three elements to smoke me. I really think too many small forwards blame their size, when they should be blaming their confidence.

    If the big guy is coming in fast, let him blow by you. Seriously, it's the one's who panic that allow me take the ball. The one's who make a quick step over or outside of the foot turn at the last moment as I charge, beat me every time. This is usually when I start going into the arm-length defending as he's already figured me out, and I him. So now the small striker knows I will play at an arms length, which gives him more options. I'm more hesitant to tackle after being beat with speed. Make sense?

    Good luck.
     
  9. strike

    strike New Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't confuse endurance with quickness. In fact, being a giant myself, I can usually out-endure ANY striker, any day. We are long-distance type of guys, whereas most strikers are dashers. They are quicker, but if you're a good defender, you use the rope-a-dope and keep the little bugger speeding around till he's out of juice.
     
  10. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    I would never confuse endurance with quickness. I run a 3:10 marathon. If you, weighing 70 pounds more than me, can out endure me then, yes, I've probably met my match.

    However, as a general rule I would say a soccer player weighing in at 240, probably, doesn't have the endurance of a much lighter player.
     
  11. strike

    strike New Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then I would suggest you still don't know the difference between endurance and speed. Endurance has very little to do with weight and everything to do with conditioning, conserving energy and playing smarter, not harder. You can say smaller guys outlast bigger guys all you want, but there's no validity to that whatsoever as a smaller guy who wastes his energy, sprints all over the place and is not properly conditioned will be outlasted (see: endurance) by a well conditioned big-man who conserves his energy every time.
     
  12. strike

    strike New Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, you're suggesting a faster time over a determined distance, which is speed, not endurance. Yes, you may run this marathon faster than me, but I bet if you did, you would not be able to run a consecutive one, whereas myself, having conserved my energy and running at a slower but stable pace, could outlast you for back to back marathons. I hope you understand the difference.

    My original point stands that many attacker (especially American ones) blow out their energy within the first 60 minutes and are usually a piece of cake for me to handle at that point. No big deal man, just trying to clear up some semantics here.
     
  13. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria

    I actually agree with you Strike. I am not as big as you (5'10, 160lbs), but play central defense also.

    I am never scared of bigger guys, they cant outrun so they are always going to be in front of me. Worse comes to worse, I push them, and they get angry and extend their arms and shove me to the ground, and then the ref calls them for a foul. The strangest issue is that their team mates never seem to play high balls, but even that I am decent, because I will hold my ground very well.

    Now, smaller quick forwards are scary. It is not so much that they have to be lightening quick. All they have to do is be able to change directions quickly and they will wiggle away with their low center of mass. Even if they weigh less, you are challenged as a marker, because you have to get lower to effectively mark them.

    @Effington, like strike said you have to have more confidence, and use your speed.
     
  14. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    You do realize a marathon is 26.2 miles? I doubt either one of us would be able to run a second marathon.

    If you could finish 2 back to back marathons then I'm not not even on the same planet as you are in the realm of conditioning.
     
  15. strike

    strike New Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Seriously dude, talk about missing a point. You're killin' me.
     
  16. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    How so?
     
  17. strike

    strike New Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wasn't being literal, I know neither of us can run a double marathon. I was hoping you would understand the analogy. Anyway, no worries, we'll agree to disagree.
     
  18. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Strike, Jose,

    Take it out on the field, LOL
     
  19. BillyGates

    BillyGates Member

    Aug 4, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I must say one of my more memorable moments last season was when a team we were playing against was starting to play fairly rough and one point I was dribbling then stopped and 2 guys on the other team that were going to 'sandwich me' ran into each other and both fell down... it was worth a good laugh.

    The point being, as already mentioned, hopefully you can use agility and quickness to evade and get open.

    It's one of the things I like about soccer unlike, basketball, (American) football, hockey... it usually isn't a requirement to be physically large to play well.

    Good luck!
     
  20. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    On the original topic, this is the key. When you come up against a fast, strong defender (the ultimate centerback) that you just can't shake, well it's a team sport. He can't defend the entire field.
     
  21. Seaside Mafia

    Seaside Mafia New Member

    May 29, 2005
    London
    I spent all of my school years playing in teams with and against kids older and bigger than me.

    In those days, like you I was also pretty small and slight. Unlike you, I wasn't quick. However, I had good vision, control, passing range, and shot, and I read the game better than most.

    I was taught and learned the following which enabled me to be more than competitive in these teams.

    a. If you're shielding the ball correctly, they shouldn't be able to get a clean sight of it. The only way they can get it off you is by fouling you. This was the first lesson I learned when playing against bigger lads. Get your body in the way.
    b. When going for a 50-50 ball shoulder to shoulder, I learned to bounce my shoulder into them first, before they had a chance to do it to me. I was never going to knock them over but it would put them off balance enough for me to get control of the ball on my own.
    c. If someone’s marking you tightly, make them suffer for it by laying the ball off first time and running into space to receive the return. You’ll soon find they drop off a bit after you’ve left them nowhere a couple of times.

    Finally, like the bloke earlier said, if you lose heart after the first physical challenge you might as well go off. You've got to grow a pair. Dump your current side and try to sign up with this new lot asap. You’ll learn more and faster.
     
  22. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is great insight into defender psychology. I actually faced a defender like this two weeks ago, and it surprised me because our league is pretty "gentlemanly". Anyway, the way I dealt with him when we played again this week was to position myself further from goal and closer to the wings. To come out to challenge me would've put him in no man's land and placed a gaping hole in the middle of the field.

    the other thing I did... The first time he "got" me I had my back to goal/him. So from there on out I paid attention to my body shape. I angled my body so I could always see him and the possible pass. If he came out to challenge me I made the run in behind him, if he stayed then my teammate played to feet and we'd make runs in behind him. Essentially, we had to work in pairs/threes to get by him.
     
  23. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    [What position(s) do you usually play? Where you line up on the pitch has a big effect on how you handle larger, stronger opponents IMHO.]
     
  24. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    im the small dude that big guys hate :D

    as a kid i grew up on big house, i was about 9-10 years old, and i would play around with my older cousins whom were about 14 and 15 years old.

    i was strong as f... for my age thought.

    first of all, hitting the gym is not enought, protein bars, protein shakes, creatine, you need to get muscles, thats not an option, the stronger you are the more chances you have of winning.

    now, i was always a very skilled player, but assuming you are not as skilled, very few kids in this world would spend everyday playing soccer like i did when i was younger, i was a little callejero.

    let see.

    you will hardly ever faced a perfect defender like pique who is tall, fast, strong, smart, skilled, in fact, the only defender i can think of that comes close to pique is Baressi, not even cannavaro was as good as pique.

    Anyway, to beat somebody like pique is almost impossible, but i doubt you are facing defenders that good, i doubt you are facing defenders as smart as puyol also.

    let say you are facing average defenders like pepe, or descent ones like nesta.

    you have exploite what you are good at, now, if you are fast, you have to exploite your speed any time you have a chance, if you dont know how to use your speed, watch videos of eto, and start working on it.

    speed is also mental, i played as a defender too when i was younger, since i was a very skilled and a tricky player, i would anticipate most of the plays, basically you read the play... if you read the play, you gone anticipate everything, and you would barely ever get touched or come in contact vs bigger opponents.

    it wasnt untill i was older that people were bigger than me, speciallly when i moved to the US, i still played some defensive mid sometimes againts white boys, and when it came to contact i lost 50/50 balls but most of the time, my speed and my ability to read the play would make me win the ball.

    when it comes to contact, be smart, use your elbows (for protection) many many times i had that big 6 4" defender trying to indimidate me with hard tackles since the begining of the game, this is when you show you gone use your elbow if he comes down to hurt you, of course they just want to scare you, but you also want to scare them :p they have to know you are not the little dude they gone mess with.

    when it comes to attacking, speeed, speed and more speed, work on it.

    you do not have to dive, but if you feel that you are being pushed illegaly, stop and let the ref know, defenders hate that and eventually they get cards, i used to dive and i was a great diver too, but as a new "american" i cant dive anymore haha

    the more skilled you are, the less trouble you will have beating defenders of all sizes.

    oh one more thing, covering the ball, very important, when they come to push you around, you have to cover the ball well, and when they push you the ref is gone call that a foul, you have to master the covering of the ball.

    alrite bro, good luck, and let us know how it went.

    btw, learn some boxing or martial arts on your free time, the strenght is not only physical but mental, if you are small but you can fight, you are mentally stronger...
     
  25. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    nope, it doesnt work at a higher level.

    i have seen women in mens leagues, they can play the lower divisions where they play vs fat old guys.

    when it comes to playing d2 and up, they will struggle in all type of situations.

    this is why is better for women to play with women. very very few women would play at the top division with men, even in amateur soccer.

    im not trying to put women down in anyway, im sure there are some super women out there that would out muscle or out run a dude, but is very rare.

    the slowest player i have seen was carlos valderrama, riquelme is very slow too, but they are so f... good with the ball at their feet, and they are very strong players too.
     

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