Independiente.... Los Diablos Rojos thread.. (r).

Discussion in 'Argentina: Clubs' started by devilman, May 27, 2006.

  1. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    I don't discount the rivalries one bit. I understand its hard to get over that, I just feel that on the International level we need to support our teams.

    + 1
     
  2. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    I can understand your POV and I can understand your feelings but at present you aren't living in Argentina. Why wouldn't you support an Argentine team against foreign teams?

    I'm not saying bust out an Independiente flag and go to the corner singing "dale rooooo" but at the very least want them to win.

    Just curious.
     
  3. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    Ha! I have a history with those teams and their fans, ever since I was a kid. We took the club rivalries very seriously. I'm not saying we should hate them, I think it's sad and unfortunate when I see that some people take it that far. But wanting them to win is a bit too much.

    Each person is different, but I think I speak for most fans who grew up in Argentina when I say that we just can't erase certain attitudes towards rival clubs, just because we emigrate.
     
  4. johnie1

    johnie1 Member

    Oct 30, 2006
    cork, ireland
    Club:
    CA Independiente
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    It is great to see them do well, altough they seem to have been lucky at times, especially at home against defensor. Strange how two teams that are doing so badly in their leagues should make the final. Should be interesting to see how the red devils do against estudiantes later today
     
  5. Andrés_

    Andrés_ Member

    Nov 16, 2007
    Argentina.
    Club:
    CA Independiente
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    The whole thing of supporting for other's clubs i guess it's up to each person, however there's kind of criteria installed on who we should support or not coming from the media, for example supposedly not just us argentines but all of south americans should've been proud if Boca was to win the Intercontinental in 2000, but they didn't say that with Estudiantes last year, nor with River in 1996, not even with Vélez in 1993, however they did it with Independiente in 1984 when we played Liverpool for the Intercontinental Cup, but that was more of a element of morbid based on the recent events between Argentina and England.

    Plus i think that the team to be supported by everybody regardless of the club one supports, it is the national team, which is why i don't root for other teams to win on club competitions, in the end clubs compete against each other even if they're from the same country. The national team is the one that should make us all proud alike.
     
  6. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    For an old cat like me, that would be a motivating factor. I think it's strainig positivism to think that thse kids know who those legends are other than pictures on the wall. Pardon me for sounding so cynical, incidentally.
     
  7. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    THIS.

    I can count on one hand the number of times you and i have agreed on "matters." This is one of them. The notion of rooting against Argentine teams is utterly foreign (pun intended)to me. I understand how a River guy couldn't root for Boca, and vice versa. But, as you said, living in the US - where most of the people in this country think Argentina is the same as Mexico is the same as Puerto Rico - i root for all Argentine club teams. Always.
     
  8. zant

    zant Member

    Sep 7, 2009
    trikala,greece
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    Don't forget that if independiente win the copa,then they will automatically qualify for libertadores taking newell's place.There is a serious dilemma here!;)
     
  9. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    yea well i live in the US, but that doesn't mean my feeling towards certain teams and their fans has changed... in my eyes, boca, el rojo, racing, san lorenzo are equal, and i'd probably throw velez, estudiantes, newell's, central as other teams i could never support. But as I said, if we're talking about a small team from the interior of the country, like Godoy Cruz, I will be backing them 100%, but other rivalries i don't just cast aside based on where I live

    I think this is a stupid rule. Newell's or Racing, whoever wins out, deserves to be in the CL. If you want the Sudamericana winner to be in the CL, then make it something different, but don't punish other teams that have been consistent over a long stretch
     
  10. Andrés_

    Andrés_ Member

    Nov 16, 2007
    Argentina.
    Club:
    CA Independiente
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    At least with this we figured out how much the Sudamericana means to CONMEBOL, just a 1/32 of the Libertadores. "The other half the glory", my ass FOX Sports.
     
  11. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    Well then ... forget everything I said before.

    FOOOOOOOOOOOOORCA GOIAS!!!!
     
  12. RacingGirl

    RacingGirl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    SoCal
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    I usually root for all Argentinien teams too. But not when their win might jeopardize my teams chance at the Libertadores...Which i think this is the case. No offence Andres_ but...

    Vamos Goias!!!
     
  13. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    RG:

    Racing won't be in the mix anyway, though...

    ;)
     
  14. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    I know I'm going to catch heat for this but we are being rather provincial about this. This also goes to posters in the USA but being that you NO LONGER ARE LIVING in Argentine your scope of rival now changes. It's no longer your friend's cousin's uncle but rather the other nationalities that live down the block.

    For example when Boca was hot and winning everything, it wasn't just the Palmeiras fans, or the Chivas fans etc etc etc but rather it was all the Brazilians and all the Mexicans etc etc which were rooting against BOCA. These people are ANTI ARGENTINA not ANTI BOCA. And thats the MAIN REASON why ALL ARGENTINES need to UNITE behind ALL ARGENTINE TEAMS.

    We can't afford to be myopic about Boca River, Independiente Racing, Newells Rosario etc etc etc. but rather we now need to expand our views as Argentines and everything associated with it.

    Daily I'm assaulted by other South Americans. Ecuadorians, Colombians, Chilenos, Paraguayans, lets not even begin to talk about the NONSTOP ASSAULT of MEXICANS. All of them trying to take a hit at Argentina, doesn't matter if it's for National team accomplishments or Club team accomplishments, its simply because we are Argentinians.

    So whenever I see an Argentine go against another Argentine club it irks me to no end. It's like we are being destroyed from within and it just absolutely hurts.

    When we play against each other in the National Tournament I can completely understand the division, as a matter of fact it's expected but on the international level, its a completely different level.
     
  15. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    I live in the US but I had just been back in Argentina for seven months so even though it had been years since i last lived in argentina, in those seven months i was reintroduced to dealing with other teams and their fans... especially in and around the stadiums. i went to every home match plus had run-ins when wearing my jersey in a bar or something (nothing violent just talking and what not) Plus, I was around my cousins and friends, people i went to school with, and worked with at an internship i had.

    Now in the US, one of my best friends is a Boca fan and i was dealing with him before the season started about going to the B. We don't even watch games together

    As for other South Americans, 3 summers ago I worked landscaping with a guatemalan guy who was a huge Boca fan- and trust me, i was very much rooting against them in the CL (I would have any way but it just added to it)

    Lastly, on ESPN radio right before the Copa Libertadores Final between Chivas and Inter, they were debating about if other Mexican fans, particularly Americanistas should be rooting for Chivas. They all came to the conclusion, that it showed a weakness of Mexico as a soccer-country that fans of other clubs were desperate just for ANY mexican team to win something.

    In Argentina, all our clubs have long, storied histories. River, Boca, Independiente, Racing, Velez, and Estudiantes have all been World Champions... We don't have to be so desperate to win things. All the main clubs have trophy rooms full to the rim there is no need to act like Mexicans whose clubs have never accomplished anything outside of their country or produced top players

    When Inter played Estudiantes for example, I was rooting for Inter so a player from my club's cantera would progress. I don't care about Estudiantes, Veron, Bilardo, or any of their fans who were calling Buonanotte assesino. I was PUMPED when they lost.

    I'm proud of my club's accomplishments nothing more.

    As Andres_ said, the national team makes us all proud, but even then, i'd be even prouder if it was a River (or ex-River) player who lifted the cup
     
  16. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    This is all fine and dandy when we are talking between Argentines but the minute another nationality comes into play, we should all fall in line behind the Argentine team.
     
  17. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    It just doesn't work that way. I definitely get where you're coming from since I've lived in LA for a while, so I clearly understand the statement about the anti-Argentine sentiment. Still, there's just way too much pride and rivalries don't allow you to cheer for the other side just because they're from the same country.

    I'm on Andres and RiverGaucho's side on this one, but I do get what you mean anyway.
     
  18. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    We are all family. There is NO REASON WHY I WOULDN'T BE PROUD OF MY BROTHERS.

    Inside our house, it's a different story. We aren't at home.
     
  19. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    I would otherwise pull for Independiente were their success not to the detriment of Newell's. Of ocurse, this is assuming Newell's don't catch Velez in the next round, a Velez they've already beaten this year (I'm looking at YOU, Cosmos :D

    I'd say the 2 biggest rivals for Newell's are Central (of course) and San Lorenzo. There are others (Racing) but in the international tournaments, i rot for all of them, despite loathing on the domestic front.

    The Reason - As many of you know, Argentina is in an economic pickle. It has surpassed Brasil as the world's largest exporter of talent. Argentinos are leaving to play in Brasil and Mexico, for Fuks sake, because the money is simply better.

    The way la Primera - not Argentine players, but the league - will get more positive recognition, is through success at all levels of international competition.

    I'd say there's bronca for Estudiantes on behalf of Newell's hinchas, given that several Lepra players have ended up there recently. But it did not prevent my pulling for them, particulalry against Cruzeiro and ESPECIALLY against Barca 2 years ago.

    I think I can see the forest through the trees on this issue, but i can understand how some of you at ground zero find it difficult to be so magnaminous. I'm not saying the preferences aren't legitimate, but Argentina's teams and leagues needs the boost in this day and age.
     
  20. Arthur V

    Arthur V Member

    Dec 29, 2008
    Brasilia, BRASIL
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    There's no way, in any possibility, that I'd support Corinthians/Palmeiras. In the finals Boca x Santos and Boca x Palmeiras, I was glad that Boca won.

    It's impossible to me.
     
  21. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Independiente.... Los Diablos Rojos thread...

    After winning 3-1, Independiente managed to tie vs. Goias (global score 3-3).

    The penalties are about to begin.. winner takes the Copa.
     
  22. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    5-3 on penalties and Independiente win their first Copa Sudamericana, their 16th International title.

    Congratulations to el Rojo and all its fans, especially you Andres!
     
  23. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Re: Independiente's Copa Sudamericana Win

    Fuk...
     
  24. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Mildly happy for them.

    If Newell's end up in the spot they have just taken, I'll be pissed that this stupid rule cost Newell's a shot at CL.

    Oh well...
     
  25. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I never rooted so much for a red team!!! But it seems Independiente wanted the heart of 6 million Grêmio fans... so they dressed in blue for the match against Goiás... holy shit, I almost had several heart attacks in this match!!!!

    All the blue side of Rio Grande do Sul state thanks Independiente for beating Goiás!!!

    Yes, we are also partying tonight in this side of the border
    [​IMG]
     

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