no, there are players better than them on the u23 team and in wps. and i love all these players. love pressley's left boot. love dunn's quickness since she played in the u17 wc in new zealand. and if you follow this board you know that i certainly do love leroux. pia certainly knows about them. she called in leroux, but she didn't make the cut.
It isn't Pia's job to teach the players soccer fundamentals-passing, trapping/first touch, running off the ball, etc. However, it is her job to make changes when she sees a player who can't master these things from game to game. There should come a time when performing well in training but having consistently poor games should put a player on the bench and provide someone else a chance. Pia didn't waste much time after this qualifying tournament to call in Tarp, DiMartino, and Osborne. Clearly, she had other players in mind. Instead of just keeping them in her back pocket and allowing the same players to plod through games, why not give these fringe players a chance? Getting to play on this team is like getting a career outside of the sporting world. Companies want to hire exciting, creative young people...but they want them to have experience too. Well, if no one ever gives the young people a chance, how can they have experience?
I really liked Pressley from what I saw at the U-2-'s but I'm not sure she's quite there yet. Maybe a call into camp but I can't see her getting farther than that just yet. I will say yet again that Whitney Engen is the CB with the most potential in our player pool. Her, alongside Markgraf, organized the best defense in WPS. (Yes I know their numbers were second best but that was with an incompetent keeper behind them) Anyway, unfortunately players like Engen and Pressley won't ever see playing time until Pia is gone. Pia seems to be in love with LePeilbet, Rampone, and Buehler and until Rampone retires, or Pia is gone, I dont think we'll see Engen or Pressley play CB for the WNT.
I take it my earlier post got lost in the shuffle. Edwards & Marshall are two players from the 2008 U20 team that (imo) did very well in WPS--both won starting roles and performed well there--and play positions where the USWNT is currently old (and based on Cancun, under performing). Neither are injured (unlike Heath & O'Hara, two others from that particular age cohort who I think might have made the WWCQ roster had they been healthy). I agree with you on some of your points. It is not the job of the head coach of the USWNT to "develop" players, particularly when there is a league such as WPS. And I agree that folks who want to see the 2010 U20 players on the USWNT right now are jumping way ahead of things.
My argument isn't that Pia isn't starting the right players, but rather the entire program doesn't develop a deep, competitive pool of players. How many players have over 100 caps? It's insane and it demonstrates an old girls club that isn't Pia's doing, but rather the culture of the program. As for the concerns of losing fans if the team lost too many non-wc/Olympic games.... I don't buy it. The team is off the radar of the general american public and the soccer fans understand. Win during the wc/olympics and people won't care what happens in a friendly against Canada - most won't even know the game happened (and it's not like winning all those games now is building great media coverage and growing the fan base).
not if the someone else can't even play better than them in training. that doesn't make sense. what are you talking about. these are all players she knows and has called in/used before. we think they're better, but this doesn't mean that she thinks they are better. looks to me like she's just adding some useful limbs to a sore legged team. once again, this team looks as tired to me as the germans looked in that may game at the end of their season. i just looked at that game again on my dvr and the uswnt looked much more spritely. but that was early days in the wps season. you're not making sense. who do you think made krieger, heath, morgan, cheney, rapinioe etc. standard uswnt fare. engen has been called in by pia. she'll just have to beat out the players ahead of her in camp to make the team. furthermore, no coach worth anything makes too many changes in the back line - especially when the back line has been forced to install a new and less impressive gk behind it. that would just be enormously silly. pia already had to move buehler out to the left side - i have no idea why - i assume because cox and schnur are simply not good enough. why would she make another change there. that's just asking for even more trouble. this post is already too long because i'm replying to 3 different posters. let me just say that i like both players - especially marshall because she can do very well up front in a pinch. but the beauty of this board is that we differ about the next step. these players apparently have been in camp and have not beaten out their competition so i'm sure they'll be ready in the future, but they're not now.
What I'm saying is that Pia has made it clear that she will play LePeilbet, Rampone, and Buehler no matter what. So the chances for other up-and-coming center backs to get looks does not appear to be likely anytime soon. Certainly players like Engen will have to beat out other CB's to get playing time and I understand that. I just hope that Pia doesn't have tunnel vision with who the defenders are in the US pool.
that's actually a good thing. altho i don't know about the no matter what. look at good coaches all over the world and you'll find that even when there are disasters in the back line they rarely change the players because a stable back line where the players have some chemistry and are familiar with each other is probably the most important thing in building a team. i'd be afraid of that if she stops calling them in to camp.
luvdagame, I think the main difference really is that you seem to really trust Pia's choices with respect to the players chosen for camps and to make final rosters (and see the field). Secondly, it sounds (reads) to me that this trust extends to her player evaluation/development so that despite what we fans have seen during games, Pia knows best. Maybe I've misunderstood your meta-point, though. I have been in a similar place w/ respect to placing a lot of trust in Pia's choices -- eg. I've been very slow to jump on the Wilson bandwagon b/c I simply did not think she had the actual defensive skills necessary to take "the next step." However I'm moving a away from 100% In Pia I trust given how the team looked in vs China and in Cancun. And really, had Pia not made some very poor coaching moves during the WWCQ tourny, I'd likely have much more trust in Pia than I do now. She failed a crucial test. I don't think an entire overhaul of the roster is necessary, feasible, or desirable (unlike some posters here). Nor do I think immediately "promoting" players from a U20 team that underperformed and looked tactically subpar (eg the 2010 class) will help at all. Most Uxx players in any country (yes, folks, even Germany) never make the full WNT roster. But given the age of several of our key players and the good performance of several younger players in the WPS, I think there is room to add a few younger players without upsetting the apple cart as it were. Well, it is possible if Pia has the wherewithal to make difficult choices. Granted, now I would see that happening after the Italy series if we get past them. But I think calling in one younger (but WPS experienced) defender would have been good. But, if we get past Italy, then I think there need to be some changes--including a couple of younger (but experienced in WPS) players at the expense of vets (such as Mitts).
good points all around. no, i don't trust pia per se. i trust whoever is the coach in camp seeing these players have to compete when everybody around them is even better than in wps. the fact is that if we replace pia with anson dorrance, or paul ratcliffe, we'd just be posting about different disagreements and players. but that's the fun of it. and i don't think that pia is unable to make the hard decisions. like i said, it was pia who made people like krieger, heath, morgan, cheney, and rapinoe regular players on this team. it was pia who decided to break up the back line and reinsert rampone and move buehler out to left back just before an important tournament. the fact that this last one probably bit her in the rear (solo conking out didn't help), and the fact that we don't like it doesn't mean that it wasn't a hard decision. so, like you, i fully expect pia to make some changes on the team before the world cup if we get past italy. in fact with all the college/wps games that pia has seen and with all the players that she repeatedly calls into camp, i'm sure it was also a hard decision to go with the team as is for this wcq tournament. because she didn't make our changes we think that no decision was made and she is just sailing thru without thinking about it or making conscious decisions about it. but that's not necessarily true. she made the hard decision. it might have been wrong. but she made the hard decision.
I think kool-aide said what I wanted to say in a more eloquent way, but I'll try anyway. My point is that there are obviously players Pia's noticed or seen play well in training or in the very limited minutes they've gotten in games. Unfortunately, these players sit in favor of players who get minutes because they've been around forever--not because their quality of play warrants it. I simply don't believe they're that much better than the people we think should be playing (or at least getting more chances to play). Still, I see what you're saying, luvdagame. I'm definitely guilty of thinking Pia has her head in the sand and avoids making any changes or decisions. Finally, I also think tossing in a bunch of new players for the final qualifiers vs. Italy is a bad idea. That kind of experimentation should occur after the Italy series, whether the US qualifies or not. Send them to Four Nations tournament, send them to the Algarve, let them play in a meaningless friendly against Chinese Taipei.
I can't speak for others, but I'm not saying immediately promote U20 players for starting roles on the WNT. Putting young gifted players on the roster does not mean that they will start WC qualifiers right off the bat. It means they will be given time on the pitch in friendlies for player development and evaluation. New talent has to come from somewhere and that means experimentation and giving young players a chance to play. Most international teams make significant use of their Uxx players. They do it significantly earlier than we do. Here are some examples. England have already capped at least 7 players from their U20 2008 roster. We've capped one. Germany have capped at least 3 players from their U20 2008 roster, and 3 other players who were eligible for the 2008 U20 WC roster but didn't play on that team because they were already full fledged participants on the senior team. The Mexico team that just schooled the USWNT on basic soccer skills in WCQ had 7 players from their 2008 U20 WC squad. Brazil's qualifying roster has 4 players from their U20 2008 squad. I could on go on.... Of course, this is not to say young talented WPS players or other college players should be excluded from consideration for the USWNT. Finally, I do think that the USWNT need a drastic roster overhall. However, that can't happen before the Italy matches. It could be done before the WC if they qualify. Brazil did it in 2003.
I too was puzzled by this. I respect/idolize Rampone and I'm sure that Pia values her leadership and savvy, but a young US central defense was starting to gel well without her. I think Pia slightly subtracted from the D by adding Christie back inside and moving the Buehldozer out to the left. Hopefully the D will click in Italy... The fatigue issue bothers me. After the second CR match, I think that two of the players mentioned being tired. And I think they're travelling to Italy today. Sure hope they have fast recovery times.
this point is meaningless without mentioning the fact that these teams do not have u23, or college, or pro teams with better players than u20 to choose from. it's also worth very little if you don't point out that a couple of those teams are more desperate to step up to the international standard that even a struggling uswnt already has. it does say just that. since young talented wps and or other college players (along with a u20 now and then - nairn, leroux) are the ones being considered now, who do you think will be excluded if more u20s are brought in. now, if by uxx, you mean u23, then i might agree slightly. wps players should be the chief resource. many u23 players can't even make wps substitute squads.
And this will be a huge problem in the WC with the older players and why we need some younger legs on this team in key positions like CM.
I completely agree with your posting and actually did an elaborate post 2 years ago during the algarve cup when not 1 player form the current u20 world cup team was called into the full national team for this tournament..or the camp, i believe. Sweden, German, Norway, etc, etc..all had numerous players from their u20 teams, which obviously didn't WIN the tournament. This is when when i first had a problem with Pia and realized we would be in for some problems in the future. I was hoping those problems wouldn't surface during the WC qualifying games, but it did.