More of a baseball related article, but it makes the case that from an economic point of view, downtown stadiums where the bulk of the financing is private (aka, the team owner) provide the most economic benefit. Doesn't mention anything about attendance, since only us MLS fans are obsessed with it and how location affects it. But it does mention that for other reasons, downtown stadiums are the way to go. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/us/24bcweber.html?_r=2&ref=sanfranciscobayarea
You can't say that Staples center is bad for downtown LA, even if you dont like downtown LA. But re the article, its premise, is fine: location location location , provided the taxpayers aren't screwed from the outset. But good locations re hard to find. ( See NE Revolution and DC United) Portland's facility is close enough to critical mass density. Same with Montreal/Houston. Vancouver's is good. The alleged Cosmos resurrection. See the pattern. I think this article is not news to MLS. Now, out here in NorCal, from where the article sprang, we turn to the Quakes. Their proposed facility is NOT downtown. There is zero street vibe around. ( It's not too far from the future 49er/Raider palace). And it's in NorCal which turns out big for winners only. So it is critial that this facility be a destination in and of itself, i.e. not done on the cheap, top notch food/amenities and tailgating friendly. Just sayin.
Agreed. LA is one city that is definitely an exception to the rule. It would not benefit an LA team to be located in downtown over any other location in the greater LA basin. However I think the article was a bit off base comparing a football stadium to a baseball stadium. Fans tend to go to both venues with different goals. Baseball is a much more leisure sport that can be taken in on the spur of the moment which often leads to fans going out in the town around the ballpark before and after the game. Football is more of an "event" sport where the average fan makes a day of it by tailgating, etc...
The Earthquakes proposed location is within a mile of downtown San Jose. Unfortunately, there isn't much in that mile area, so it will be hard for people to park and eat downtown before the game then walk over to the stadium. Especially since Americans hate walking for the most part. On the plus side, its right by public transit (Caltrain, future BART extension) and a university. Once BART to San Jose gets built in about 10 years, it'll be easy to hang out in downtown San Jose then hop on BART for one stop to get to the stadium.
I think it would. The pathetic subway system in LA county is only useful for getting to handful of places and downtown LA is one of them. Plus it's been drastically transformed into more of a destination since Staples Center opened. Not as good of a location as AT&T Park, but better than almost anywhere else in the LA area. It was saying suburban vs. urban (specifically, downtown). The fact that football games happen less often makes it even more of a bad deal, since there are 10 times more baseball games in which people can spend money and stimulate the economy. And considering that football is more of a tailgate event, fans are less likely to spend money in local establishments.
Actually San Jose's new stadium site is over 5 miles away from the 49ers new stadium site in Santa Clara. And is only 2 1/2 miles from the center of downtown San Jose (on the same train line). As for immediate "street life" the development around the ballpark is going to contain some "street life" itself when it's completed.
True but Staples Center is the busiest arena in the US and probably the world. That wasn't the case when the Lakers were at Inglewood.
And Coleman Road is becoming increasingly developed. There are many places to eat about 1 mile south of the stadium site, and at the Lowe's right across the street from the site there are three building pads that are earmarked to be restaurants. And the plans that Wolff has for the rest of the property contain a hotel, retail, office, and possibly places to eat. About 1/3 to 1/2 mile north on Coleman there are already a couple more restaurants.
The walk between the Downtown Shark Tank and the Quakes stadium will be shorter than the walk between the Downtown Staples Center and the Downtown LA Coliseum. And the walk in San Jose is up the Guadalupe River Trail, while the walk in LA takes you through some of the nastiest neighborhoods in California - USC. BTW- that article sucked. The difference between a downtown baseball stadium and a downtown football stadium seems to have been lost on the author.
Not sure why everyone is saying Downtown LA suck. It is getting better and better, especially around Staples Center area. There are a lot of stuffs to do there now. New developments, eateries etc. Downtown itself is also getting better. There are still room for improvement, but I don't think it is that bad, especially if you compare it to a few years ago.
Where does an urban MLS stadium fit in the pre / post game fan culture spectrum between football and baseball/hockey/basketball? To me baseball, basketball, and hockey are all meant to be played in the city. They all have many weekday games and therefore people can go from work to a bar to the game and then to a bar to celebrate / let the crowds die down. But maybe I'm just conditioned to that because thats the way it is in Boston. I really have no idea what a real MLS experience could be, again because I'm from Boston... In Foxboro its a tailgate culture (the Pats light...) In Somerville I imagine it would be more like the other 3 teams but then again most games are on the weekends.
Interesting usage. L'ed ol? And is it bluetooths or blueteeth? You can bring Mohamed to the mountain or vice versa. What you can't do is just say "screw it - it's too hard." You have to have a plan for being accessible. Brings up a question - people talk about Toyota Park like it was in the middle of a corn field fifty miles from town, but it does not look that way on the map. Is there no plan for getting public transit there?
I was in LA for work a couple of months ago and stayed in the LA Live area. I could see that place hopping for a game even though you might feel a little worried (like I did) walking a few blocks away. That said, BringSoccerToIndy is right - every city is different and you can't make a blanket assumption for every place or for every sport.
This is a poster who spent yesterday getting slapped around on MLS: General about location not being the issue in Dallas. Do we really need to bring that argument over to this thread?
Where would TFC be if the National/Provincial/Local Governments hadn't subsidized 75% of the construction of the stadium for MLSE? Likely, they wouldn't exist.