Buffalo/Rochester/Upstate NY

Discussion in 'Western New York Flash' started by kool-aide, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given the continued push from the Buffalo Flash ownership (see this new article) to possibly join WPS, I thought they should get their own thread in this forum.

    here's one post from the general expansion thread:

    What about it folks. What do you think about a possible upstate NY WPS team? Where would they play? One of the articles about the Flash suggested that maybe the Flash ownership might go for a WPS team but not ness. in Buffalo-- if not Buffalo itself, what about Rochester? What's the deal w/ the Rhinos these days?
     
  2. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be an interesting test of my hypothesis that teams in smaller markets could become "big fish in little ponds" since locals have fewer sports alternatives to distract them.

    I'd prefer to see any new teams be west of the Mississippi until the league is less lopsided, but having an enthusiastic owner trumps all.
     
  3. FreeKicks

    FreeKicks New Member

    Sep 29, 2009
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Buffalo is getting serious and I like the idea. You have a market where there are only two pro temas, the bills and sabres, and with the wps being summer mostly, neither will affect it. I of course want western expansion but this could be a good team, especially if they played home games in rochester when washignton was visiting with it being wambach's hometown.
     
  4. cobi13

    cobi13 Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    NY
    I was going to suggest that it might be time for its own thread, but who am I to say? ;)

    I'll keep updating things on the site. My gut is that it could be a go, but there is a lot to get hashed out, and we know from the LA Sol collapse that "the 11th hour" can always change things. These are pretty exciting developments, though, especially as a sort of Central New York guy.

    I am with you.
     
  5. socfandan

    socfandan Member

    Jul 30, 2000
    Eastern Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All logic would tend to be with you, but aren't Boston and DC two of the attendence leaders in WPS? As they were with WUSA?

    Boston of course, is home to the Red Sox, Bruins, Patriots, Celtics, Revolution and Cannons with the Breakers pretty low on the media totem pole.

    DC is rumored to have a couple pro teams too, but I would have to verify that. They used to have a really good MLS team..... :)

    (Sorry, couldn't resist)

    What is the economic climate in the Upstate/Western/Niagra/Buffalo area? If people have some disposable income, this is good. If they have none, bad.

    I think one of the modest attractions of soccer in the Boston area, both Revs and Breakers, is the cost of taking the family to one of the big 4 sports for a game. Free tickets from a friend to the Sox and I still end up $100 in the hole for two of us, same for Bruins/Celtics. Without that comparison in the area, does that help or hurt a franchise?
     
  6. cobi13

    cobi13 Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    NY
    Boston is actually higher on the media pole than some might think. I have heard from many of people that the Revs are ignored much more than the Breakers in Boston proper.

    Upstate NY is far from booming, though I can't totally speak for Buffalo. I think Sahlen knows his market though.
     
  7. socfandan

    socfandan Member

    Jul 30, 2000
    Eastern Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Revs get far far more play in the Boston media than the Breakers, the Globe and Herald have regular reporters and they get some TV/Radio mention.
    The Breakers get a couple lines in the News Briefs for most games, although it seems to be getting better (all relative of course).

    The Breakers are much more fan friendly and accessible to Boston proper, since they are sorta in Boston proper. The Revs play at the man-mall 50ish miles south with no public transportation access.

    My point was actually that I think both models could be successful given certain minimum disposable income levels. WPS offers a pro game for minor league prices in big market areas where the big 4 have priced the average family out. The big-fish-small-pond concept works when there is little or no competition for the recreational/entertainment dollar.

    Add real soccer fans who would go anyway into the mix and you have a winner in either scenario.
     
  8. DazzRef

    DazzRef Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    Buffalo NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Overall, the economic climate is not great, but considering that we are supporting 2 major league franchises, it's not gloomy. However, there's one thing that people forget - the reach of the Buffalo market typically excludes Southern Ontario and Northwest PA. If the team is marketed regionally, you can attract fans from outside of the Western NY area that wouldn't normally be counted if you're looking at a strict demographic review. It's funny how things are viewed - Buffalo on its own looks like an incredibly small market when you only look at the influnce of US-based population, but it's one of the larger metro areas in North America when you include the Southern Ontario / Toronto corridor demographic numbers.

    That's what makes Buffalo a great untapped market for WPS. Other than the AAA Buffalo Bisons, there is no other summer professional sports franchise to compete against a WPS franchise. And, the fact that you have had very good growth at the grass roots level for soccer in the area, you have a very large untapped market that has the possibility of supporting a women's pro team.

    There are 2 things that Mr Sahlen needs to do to ensure that a WPS team gets noticed in the area:

    1) Advertising - getting the word out to multiple media markets in different formats will help to reinforce the fact that a team is here, and will be in the public eye. Local media doesn't cover "minor league" sports in this town well. If WPS is looked at as "major league", then you will see more exposure.

    2) They need to pick the right home field - there aren't a lot of options on venue here, but the one that stands out the most is the University of Buffalo's new football stadium. It fits the criteria for what the WPS would like in stadium size, and can house the team on Day #1. With that said, we'd need the OK from the State and the University to use the stadium for the 15-20 dates that would be needed. With that said, nobody is using the stadium in the summer....so you'd think this is a no-brainer. With that said, we're talking New York State here.....and if they don't see this as worthwhile, we're going to have a real issue getting something that fits league standards.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed every day. I have a good feeling that Buffalo will be in WPS no later than the 2012 season. :)

    Just my $.02....

    Aaron
     
  9. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    cobi13, you heard anything new in the last 2 wks?
     
  10. abby2004

    abby2004 BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 25, 2005
    East Coast
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. cobi13

    cobi13 Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    NY
    Buffalo, WPS yet to find road block for 2011 expansion entry -

    Goodness, you are on top of these things. Everything seems to be moving along for a Western New York team to come in, it is just the time that would seem to point to a 'no go.' Tomorrow, it's September. There is a lot of work to be done before kickoff in April, and some of that includes expansion drafts and such that would take place as early as October (not to mention getting the word out to the local market and building the name). My gut says it will happen, but there will be challenges, obviously.
     
  12. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Well, it is more of a promotion than an expansion, so at least the team/FO infrastructure is all there already, as is the name in the community.
    I do wonder what dictates when the expansion draft "has" to be. Why so soon after the previous season ends? Why not a month before the college/general draft?
    Anyway, it would be awesome if they could work out an agreement with the Rhinos, especially a cooperative agreement instead of just a stadium agreement, but I am wary of what may happen to Men's Div2 next year....
     
  13. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The sooner you have players, the sooner you can start selling them - and using them to promote the team. I would think the sooner you can put a human face on a team, the better. Without players, a team is just a logo.
     
  14. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Good point. Expansion teams need all the player promotion they can get.

    Though now I'm wondering if the Flash can maybe be an exception (at least in terms of an expansion draft), already being an established team and all. I mean, surely they'll keep at least a handful of their current players? Granted, they don't have any BIG names, but I would almost think having players that are already locally established figures do promotion would make it seem even more "human" than having some random national team player(s), US or otherwise, suddenly swept in.
    (Not arguing with anyone, just thinking out loud now)
     
  15. DazzRef

    DazzRef Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    Buffalo NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was talking through this with a couple of friends, and there's one way that this can get taken care of without having any big issues holding up the "promotion" of the team to WPS.....

    1) Revert Vero Bouqete and Kelly Parker (currently on WPS callups) to Buffalo in exchange for no expansion draft. (Allows Buffalo to retain 2 top players from the W-League championship team without having to perform roster reshuffles on all WPS teams)
    2) Allow Buffalo to sign free agents from other WPS teams / rosters after a specific point in time. (Allows teams to protect whatever players they want to, and allows Buffalo to pick up "castoff" WPS players during a tryout period with the team)
    3) Provide Buffalo with an additional 1 or 2 international exemptions for the first 2 years (maintains current roster as the team builds its fan base in the area).

    It might sound like a crazy idea, but it makes some sense - all teams get to maintain some level of cohesiveness without making major upheavals all over the place. On top of that, you provide Buffalo a chance to take a roster that is familiar to the fans and maintain most of it through the first couple seasons in WPS. I'm not familiar with the number of international slots WPS teams have, but I know that we have at least 7 players (Bouquete, Parker, Gemma Davison, Annie Heatherson, Eartha Pond and Pamela Tajonar) who are likely considered international players. Kim Brandao is another possible international player, but I also know that she lives in the Buffalo area, so I don't know how they'd look at that.

    It might not be totally quick and dirty, but it might help this whole process run a bit smoother......:D
     
  16. RUfan

    RUfan Member

    Dec 11, 2004
    NJ
    Club:
    Sky Blue FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had not read this Buffalo thread before, so the current discussion of a Buffalo expansion team is news to me.

    But talking with the GM of a WPS team tonight leads me to believe this is petty advanced. We were taking about another subject which led him to say something about an expansion team in '11. I asked LA?, and he answer was "No, Buffalo". There would be an expansion draft for the new team followed by a int'l player discovery (recuitment) period only for the new team.
     
  17. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Washington Post soccer reporter Steven Goff is saying similar things.
     
  18. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After Boquete's play for Chicago.. I'd say they are going to get her to sign a contract for next year asap, if she hasn't already. If Buffalo joins the league, I dont think Chicago will be very willing to give her back.
     
  19. DazzRef

    DazzRef Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    Buffalo NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure that they won't be - but if Buffalo gets to pick players from all different rosters, I'm sure that it's not going to help other teams either. If nothing else, Buffalo would be sure to get a better squad with more WPS experience. However, giving Buffalo back 2 players for stability in the rest of the franchises' rosters may be of more benefit to everyone. Six of one, half a dozen of the other....

    In either case, Coach Lines had about 95% roster turnover from Year 1 to Year 2 of the Flash. So, it's not that he can't coach around that situation - but from a overall league marketing perspective, having Bouquete stay in a Flash uniform might do more for Buffalo than it would for Chicago - on and off the pitch.

    I don't believe that getting Bouquete or Parker back will happen, personally. I'm sure that their current WPS teams will want them to stay on their rosters. I'd rather that they could come back to the Flash, but I'm not counting on it. Then again, if Washington allowed us to have Abby Wambach (who's from Rochester), that wouldn't be so bad either......not that I'm holding my breath on that idea either.....;)

    Aaron
     
  20. moog

    moog Member

    Mar 2, 2003
    eastern PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    I think you want to look at Philly's approach to roster building, since it was pretty darn successful for an expansion team this year. Surprisingly, they did very little in the college draft--only one of their picks is still on the roster, Kelly Henderson, and she didn't join the team until late in the season. They traded college draft picks to get ARod, Allison Falk, and Val Henderson, picked up Lori Lindsey, Nikki Krzysik, Jen Buczkowski, Sara Senty, and Danesha Adams in the expansion draft, and picked up Caroline Seger, Lianne Sanderson, and Frida Magnusdottir in the international draft. They signed Heather Mitts and Jo Lohman as free agents, got Karina LeBlanc and Estelle Johnson in the Sol dispersal draft, Christina DiMartino in the Athletica meltdown. All of those players have made significant contributions this year. And LeBlanc was the only one you could call a legitimate WPS star--Falk, Mitts, Senty, Buczkowski, and Lindsey had played regularly, but none were retained by their team from the first season. Just goes to show what a change of scenery and opportunity can do for you.

    If they work an expansion draft the same way and teams can only protect 10 players, Buffalo should get a core of experienced players, but probably not stars. Unless they can figure out how to get a certain tall forward that currently plays for Washington. I wonder, though, how many new internationals will come on board with world cup qualifying and preparations heating up. I bet there will be more from non-qualifying countries in Europe--should still be a significant talent pool that might be interested in an excellent American adventure.
     
  21. soccerbs

    soccerbs Red Card

    Jun 14, 2006
    Thank god the eastern area will be getting another team! What good does this do for the league? Why not Texas? Why not Washington?
    Just because a a group or person has the money doesn't mean the league opens a team where they are located. If they want a team they go where the league wants the market. Another Dagger!
     
  22. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree w/ your underlying premise that expansion west of the Mississippi is preferable for a league that wants to be "national."

    But, if an existing team/ownership puts sufficient money on the table and WPS ownership has run off or cut off a strong commissioner, it is more likely they take the money offered and run.

    But the ownership must get another team in the west.
     
  23. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And if they say, no, if you want us in the league, it'll be with a team in Buffalo, what then? I don't think this league can afford to say no to an ownership team that embraces women's soccer, regardless of where they're located.
     
  24. soccerbs

    soccerbs Red Card

    Jun 14, 2006
    You say what if the league says no?? Hmm What league--you mean a glorified W-League now...No Comish - No leadership- all owners running and doing what they want.
     
  25. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    the owners are the ones spending the money. How much of her money did Commissioner Antonucci put in?

    http://www.chicagolandsoccernews.com/sections/wps2.php?article_id=7971

    According to this article little of the sponsorship money was shared with the teams.

    I'm moving to the belief that the team owners have every right to take over the league. They pay the money.
     

Share This Page