Losing culture?

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by KC Cruzeiro, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Losing is a contagious, team threatening disease. Players that know nothing but disappointment, don't necessarily accept it but are less immune to it. In other words, they almost expect it..."oh no, not again" type response. We need men who find this absolutely unacceptable!

    The longer the Wizards get negative results, the harder is will be to change the culture in the locker room. It will soon be to the point where everyone (president, down) is cancerous and they all must be removed before the club can be healthy again...or the club will die.

    The Wizards have added talent for sure. But are they good clubhouse guys? Are they leaders? Do they care about anyone but themselves? Of the new guys, I'd say Jimmy Neilson but that's about it.
    PS. Shavar Thomas is the pick up of the season if you ask me.
     
  2. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What are you basing that on?

    Escobar also looked decent in his first game... I'll wait to make judgment on the trade. He had a decent game last night, but I'm still worried about our defensive speed in the center of defense.
     
  3. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    I've seen first hand and heard second hand, that a lot of those new guys (CR, RS, SA, PE) tend to spent the first few days of each week's training on the training table. They seem more interested in playing than training...which isn't a shock...but everyone else is putting in the time. Some of those guys have taken their time to figure out the level of commitment that is needed. Everyone else is busting their ass and they're resting. That would explain a lot the issues they have, as far as playing together goes. Neilson is the only one of the lot that is there early and leaves late on a consistent basis.

    When I give kudos to bringing Shavar back...I mean it in the sense of making an immediate improvement on a glaring need. It's been JC and no one else playing center back...and he's had to cover so often that it's made him look out of place at times. Shavar is solid...maybe no more than that, but that's a major upgrade. Just think if he had never left...the draft picks we could have spent otherwise.
     
  4. NorthbankHighbury

    Jan 25, 2009
    Liberty, MO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Your aware that all of the players you listed have had injuries? Right??

    Losing culture yes, but really --- line the facts up with your conjecture if your going to make accusations about individual players and the reasons they do not train. Stephane Auvrey for instance is recovering from knee surgery .... Smith has had a series of niggly injuries including ankle problems sustained in the DC United game and a more recent hamstring issue ....

    It is reasonable and expected for them to take treatment if they need it and it would be a damned idiot to think anything else.
     
  5. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    NorthbankHighbury, my friend, you don't think I'd be referring to recent habits do you? This goes back to the spring...even in AZ. That's why Escobar was so slow to come along...because he wasn't listening to the training staff.

    Auvrey and Smith would sit out Tuesday and Wednesday each week before any of this happened...especially Auvrey. Smith got dinged in the opener but he had already set a standard before that.

    When the season began, Diop was the only legit injury of the 3 or 4 guys sitting there. Before you go calling people idiots, you might check yourself.

    I'm not questioning these guys' talent. i'm questioning their toughness, heart or willingness to sacrifice. If Escobar is everything he's advertised to be, at his age, why would he be with the Wizards in MLS? There's holes in some of these guys' make-up.

    I'm not trying to pick apart the team. I love these guys. I'm just frustrated that they're not able to get results as a unit. They struggle to play as one because I feel they don't train as one. Some guys are a bit more dedicated than others. Does that not make sense or is that not fair to say?
     
  6. JimK

    JimK Member

    Mar 9, 2008
    WaldoKC
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Since I have not attended a training session, I will leave the training theories up to those that make it to Swope. As far as a losing culture goes, I don't know if it is so much a losing culture as it is the inherent problems of a small to mid-market team going through an extended run of poor form. The Wizards can't buy their way out of the problems like LA or even Seattle. The reserve league has gone away and we rent our home pitch which when sold out still only brings out 10,000.

    There is a parallel, I think, with the Minnesota Twins - here is team in a larger market than Kansas City, though it is not that much larger, that also can not buy their way out of any problems. So, they do the next best thing and develop an excellent minor league/development system. Growing up in Minneapolis, I saw first hand that the Twins had and continue to have an excellent minor league system - with the exception of Mauer, the Twins don't have the money to spend on players like the Yankees, Dodgers et al have, yet they continue to make the playoffs. My point? The Wizards will more than likely never have the financial resources (not that I have a clue what the resources actually are!) that the Galaxy or Sounders have, so if you are right about a losing culture, I believe to change the culture, they should spend the money on growing their development camps, acadamies etc. This also means avoiding the trap that dp's seem to be - Of course, to go this route requires patience and time and effort. I believe that it would be the best course when you consider that a dp signing may give an immediate boost to tickets and performance, but the question is where will the team be after the dp retires in 1-2 years?
     
  7. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    Be careful of your critique of players and management on this blog; some posters will question you right to do so!
     
  8. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    A. This isn't a blog
    B. Were you expecting everyone to agree with you, or are you saying that a few people disagreeing with you = persecution?
     
  9. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    JoePa's article on Uruguay had some relevant points to the Wizards and our fanbase. Uruguayan fans would say that what their team lacked was fire - that they essentially didn't want it enough and that they needed to play harder (or meaner) to achieve the results they wanted.

    Forlan countered that what Uruguay really needed was smarter, more tactically and technically proficient players. Last game, it seemed like every single Dallas player had a better first touch than our guys (except when Ryan Smith came on). They were more comfortable on the ball and smarter off the ball.

    Some of that is effort, but like Gunther Cunningham w/the Chiefs, it doesn't matter if you wake up at 4am and put 20 hours into your day if you don't have talents that compliment each other and a coaching staff that knows how to put them in a position to be successful.
     
  10. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards

    I agree with you. We need to draft better. We do a good job of getting out there and scouting foreign talent. Even though some of these guys might not work out now, it opens up channels and creates awareness for future free agents abroad. As far as a dp goes, No one wants to come to KC because it's in the middle of nothing. It's not the money. Our ownership has been throwing cash all over the place (ManU match, facilities, etc)...all in an effort to attract players.

    Yes, the new stadium should help. My concern is that we are unable to take advantage of the grand opening's excitement, because we underachieving on the field. We need to do better.
     
  11. Spoon

    Spoon Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Overland Park Ks
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well the coach brought in all these new talents you would think he would have a better idea of what kind of player he is bringing in. What kind of personality they have. Work rate in the game and on the practice field. I thought simple stuff you look at before you decide on bringing in new players.
     
  12. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    I agree - some of that is probably "This is who is available to us and willing to come to Kansas City" but I'd rather go with young guys that can actually play the position you want them to than keep trying to fit square pegs in round holes. Jack Jewsbury as a RM in a 4-4-2 looked doomed from the beginning. Josh Wolff has always been a square peg due to the fact that he likes to play centrally but requires perfect service or teammates around him in close quarters to have success. What is Davy's best position? I still couldn't tell you after all these years. What position does Meyers play? Kei on the right? Kei in the center?
     
  13. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    There you go! I gave an opinion and you had to say something about it!
     
  14. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    ? It's an internet discussion board. What were you expecting? People comment, and other people make comments based on those comments. I think you need a blog or column if you just want everyone to read what you write and leave it at that. Thick skin is required.

    I was trying to tell you that just because one or two people make a comment that you don't like, it's hardly a universal opinion.
     
  15. ojsgillt

    ojsgillt Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lee's Summit MO
    lurkers with an "inside" knowledge who hide behind the screen names starting to come out. Sounds like 1 of two things. A mutiny, or dirty diapers. I bet it is the dirty diapers.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    Go back to the original post on the "internet discussion board."

    The poster merely stated that he had 1st and 2nd hand info on some players training methods or lack thereof, and tried to connect it to the teams overall performance. And what happened: His credibility is immediately challenged as well as being called stupid.

    It leads me to believe that there are some management folks reading the posts and are constantly discrediting posters that have a different view-talk about thick skin.

    You are right about being thick skinned. I can give as much as i take when it comes to soccer knowledge, so i say, bring it on.
     
  17. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    So Northbank and kuhnscoot are management plants? Jeez man, the only one paranoid here is you. Both of them are longtime fans first, bloggers second, and neither have ever worked for the team. They have strong opinions like you and the internet doesn't often provide much diplomacy. It doesn't mean they're right, or that Northbanks' idiot comment was the most pleasant, but you're making a mountain out of a molehill because you have some hurt feelings.
     
  18. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably the main reason his credibility gets challenge is because of his join date. Many of the posters on here know who people are outside of the forum, or many of those that aren't personally known have developed a history of solid contribution to the forum. Credibility is earned not just automatically given, especially on an anonymous internet message board.
     
  19. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Thank you bobunbury!

    ojsgillt, Mutiny? I'm not trying to make anyone walk the plank. I'm just pointing out that the results we've been getting can be toxic and I'm questioning if we have the character to right the ship. Dirty diapers? I don't know what that means exactly but I do smell something foul in the front office.

    kuhnscoot, I understand your point of view. my credibility should be questioned. I've always just been an observer of the message boards. There are a lot of people involved directly and indirectly with the club and MLS that don't participate in message boards...they just observe. I recognize most of you but you've never seen me before...understandable and fair to question me.

    Am I hiding behind a screen name? I'm not thinking of it that way but yes. Does that make my points any less valid? who cares who I am? I don't care who you are. I respect and appreciate everyone's passion and I enjoy the open forum. I know what I'm talking about. Trust me or dismiss me...doesn't matter either way.
     
  20. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    bobunbury's conspiracy theories aren't completely without merit. He might be pointing fingers in the wrong direction but these boards are monitored and there are ideas planted and dashed out as well. All the front office does is spin, spin, spin. That's why they have employees doing the broadcast...so they can constantly sell, deflect the negative, exaggerate the positive and dismiss the speculative. The media isn't doing anything to question the Wizards decisions. Name a negative, controversial or doubtful piece that the media has ever done on the Wizards (besides the alleged, intern thing). You can't because they either don't care enough too or the Wizards cover up or spin everything up or dismiss the "credibility".

    This is a forum where people that really care about the club can voice their concerns as well as praises and maybe even come up with an answer. Do I have to be a member since 2001 to know that? Question authority. Piss off!
     
  21. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    The media doesn't know enough about the Wizards to analyze their problems. Northbank does and Kuhnscoot does, and both regularly rip the FO a new one here and on their blog. Anyone who has been around long enough knows which posters come from an honest place and know who tends to be biased.

    Every company spins. The Royals announcers work for the team, or at least used to. Suggesting that we aren't smart enough to tell the difference is rather insulting. In fact many people have called out Dave and Sasha glossing over the performance and talking about the referees in the Dallas game. I also haven't really seen anyone questioning your right to post what you think. I'm not quite sure how anyone has first hand knowledge of who is on the trainers table everyday, so that makes me wonder what your motives are, but frankly, I haven't formed an opinion yet.
     
  22. KC Cruzeiro

    KC Cruzeiro New Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    my appologies. I wasn't trying to question anyone's intelligence or soccer IQ. But my credibility and intelligence have both been in question so I get a little defensive. I stand by what I say about the state of the club though.
    The Royals guys are paid for by the Royals but they're professional broadcasters first (at least play by play). Dave is the assistant PR guy...who couldn't even spell MLS before 2006. Now he's an authority? A lot of things bother me right now. I guess that's why I've jumped in at this point.
     
  23. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

    Aug 16, 2004
     
  24. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    I think Dave has the job because they only have to pay one salary, and he has experience in radio from his 810am days. I think he's found a love for the game and the team, but is obviously still learning at the same time. Really every American pbp and color guy is either a homer or a cheerleader. Few are actually any good at this yet.

    Really Wizards broadcasts have always been terrible from sideline reports, video quality (that's actually much improved now), produced pieces (few and far between and amateurish when they happen). Wheelock was better at true PBP, but it's not like he got rave reviews here or anywhere else. Gansler, Arena, and everyone else sucked doing color too. Harkes is by far the weakest on the World Cup announcing teams. I like Glenn Davis a lot, but he's as big of a cheerleader for the sport as anyone, and always has a tinge of pro-Houston in his calls. We're just not that great at calling a soccer game and part of that is MLS quality doesn't really help make their jobs any easier.

    With as poor as that first half was in Dallas, I'm pretty sure I would've been telling stories or something to distract myself from that mess. There was nothing worthwhile to report.
     
  25. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    That's kuhnscoot
     

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