R16 Analysis: ARG-MEX - Rosetti (ITA)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Should have been a yellow for the shove.
     
  2. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    First of all, most of the blame needs to go to the assistant rather than the referee.

    Secondly, I think we're all in agreement that there was a massive mistake made here. But I think there is benefit to keeping this thread analytical, rather than having it turn into just another thread where people slag off the referee. Not because we want to protect him, but because the thread will actually be more useful to posters that way.

    I mean, if you go to the WC board or the Mexican board you will find hundreds of posts abusing the officials. People are coming here for something different to that - information and analysis.
     
  3. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He should have shown some balls and overturned the decisions after Tevez started celebrating ,even overruled his assistant.

    He did not have the guts to do that.It was pretty clear from any angle that tevez was offside.
     
  4. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh boy can't wait to show up in the office tomorrow.

    I'll be put on the defensive from the git go by my newly self-appointed ref co-workers.
     
  5. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Univision just showed a fracas on the bench at the half? anyone see this?

    there is a tall tree which blocks my directv abc feed so I have to watch the games on univision
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Feel bad for Rosetti. Probably the best European ref since Collina's retirement and he might not ever get a game past the round of 16 in the World Cup.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you want him to cheat and look at the replay?
     
  8. greekchampion04

    greekchampion04 Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Richmond, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    a picture is worth a thousand words
     
  9. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Question: lets say that the AR missed it and Rosetti some how learned of the offisdes by virtue of bigscreen replay. Is it that simply there is no mechanism at that point for him to procedurally overrule the AR? More generally, can a ref overrule an AR who has gotten an offisides call wrong?
     
  10. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Happened in 2006 with Zidane, no matter what double talk FIFA ahs spouted.
     
  11. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Why look at the replay?

    The only real reason the assistant could have is that he thought tevez did not touch the ball and thus was not involved in play(even that is iincorrect and inept).

    But after he sees tevez celebrating ,and claiming the goal it is clear that he touched it. He could have just showed some common sense and changed the decision then. And besides it is the referee's duty along with the assistant to know tevez touched the ball or not.And if he did his job properly and say tevez touching the ball then he should have communicated the input to the assistant.
     
  12. ZipSix

    ZipSix BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 20, 2000
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, a referee can overrule his assistant. The referee's decision is final, not the assistant referees. Once the ball has been put back in to play, in this case by way of a kick-off, there's no going back. But, if something in that conference had convinced Rosetti that the goal should not stand, he would be able to change the restart from a kick-off to an IFK for Mexico.
     
  13. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What is even worse is that Tevez was offside also on the initial ball played by messi.
    Though marginal ,unlike the second chip by messi where it was clear even live on tv that he was offside.
     
  14. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    The push on Heinze should have been a caution, I think...hopefully the Mexican players will calm down during the second half, but I understand their frustration.
     
  15. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    unfortunately I have only seen one replay, but there seemed to be a lot of players moving and then you have the GK advanced beyond two other defenders. So it is not difficult to see how/why the AR was out of position and missed it. Of course he should do better, but it was a pretty dynamic play, no.
     
  16. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Rosetti's my favorite ref, but he's got to whip out a yellow card for the two handed push on the defender.

    Rosetti can't overrule unless he's 100% sure. They just showed the replay again at halftime and the AR and is nowhere close to the second to last defender.
     
  17. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah NO it didn't.

    They did not show Zidane's head to chest butt on the big screen in Berlin Olympic Stadion.
     
  18. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    according to the LOTG, a referee may change a decision before play has been restarted. Thus, before the kickoff, the referee may change his mind.

    Of course, the first thing I noticed about the goal was the AR snap his flag upfield and sprint to indicate good goal. he seemed very sure of himself that Tevez did not get a touch.
     
  19. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Let's see if the ref and his assistants apologise after the game openly.
     
  20. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I really hoped that mexico would have the guts to stop playing and turn the game into a farce.
    That would have put this incident as the main spotlight of the world cup and put pressure on incompetent blatter and FIFA.
    But now by continuing the game they are just lessening the pressure to correct these utter utter incopetencies.
     
  21. dclark5ref

    dclark5ref New Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still can't totally blame the AR in the ENG v GER game for the no goal call. At the shot, he was were he was suppose to be and simply could not get there fast enough to be completely sure. ENG v GER game was a call for goal line technology or goal line ARs instead of correcting AR mistake.

    But, this game is a call for something to change in the ability to correct an obvious referee error that tremendously effects the game.
     
  22. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    Even from that angle it would have been clear that tevez was offside.it was even from the Tv broadcast camera angles.

    The Assistant clearly missed tevez touching the ball. But it was also the referee's duty to tell him whether he touched it or not.Specially after seeing him celebrate they should have got to know if they had any competency. Turning the decision around needed balls then ,the referee showed none.

    But another incopetency is that even if Tevez was deemed to not touch the ball ,he was clearly interfering with the play and it was as much as the referee's duty to make that judgement than his assistants.

    What is worse was tevez was marginall offside on the first ball as well. in short utter farce of a decision.
     
  23. dclark5ref

    dclark5ref New Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here, here... exactly put! Lets maintain civility on this board. I do all my ranting on FB! LOL I come here to listen to each of us share our analysis and learn a few things too!
     
  24. ref2coach

    ref2coach Member

    May 27, 2004
    TN, USA
    Is the concept of "serial persistent infringement" not a FIFA construct? Multiple Mexican players have been taking turns fouling L. Messi. He has suffered at least 7 fouls so far. When if ever does it get recognized and dealt with?
     
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, I'm not sure that's not the right thing to do. Yes, its against the rules, but aren't the point of the rules to play the game fairly. If the ref finds out before the restart that his call was wrong, no matter how he found out, shouldn't he change his decision?
     

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