Analysis: USA-ALG - De Bleeckere (BEL)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. CravenCrew

    CravenCrew New Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That should have been a red.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The striking in the penalty area not called?

    Or the foul on Altidore?

    Agreed with the former. Latter is a yellow card.
     
  4. CravenCrew

    CravenCrew New Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. The slap to Clint's face.

    The Altidore call looked right; Harkes is just dumb
     
  5. dclark5ref

    dclark5ref New Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    fist to the face... then as close to an on goal takedown as one can get and no red... so, I am not posting for a while... I am frustrated!!
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not just a red, either. It was also a penalty.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lost in all the mayhem is that he just sent off the wrong guy, I think.

    He turned his back as he decided to book someone for dissent. As he beckoned one of the players over, the captain was stupid enough to go. Second yellow and then the red.

    It's possible that he wanted to send the captain off, but given what was going on, it seemed he was the least guilty of dissent.
     
  8. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    There is no question. Two other players were going crazy in his face and he turned his back. The captain followed him to have a discussion and De Bleckere just turned and cautioned the guy standing there. I noticed it as it happened. Thankfully, it was final seconds so no real impact.
     
  9. Another NH Ref

    Another NH Ref BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 29, 2008
    Southern NH
    It looked as if the captain was trying to settle things. Could easily have been on Yabda.

    It's fun hearing Lalas trying to keep his emotions in check.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lesson to all of us to not turn your back when you beckon a player. The chances of that happening are almost nil, but it happened to a world-class referee in a World Cup match.
     
  11. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    perhaps he cautioned the wrong player at the end there, but we also don't know if perhaps the captain said something and the referee recognized his voice and took exception to it etc. Does not seem the most likely theory, but something like this should be considered.

    Altidore's caution was legitimate. He tries to kick the defender while making no play for the ball. Even if he made basically no contact, the caution is correct. You shouldn't do that.

    Not sure how the elbow/slap to Dempsey's face right in front of goal DURING PLAY was missed.
     
  12. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    The bold part is an outstanding observation and I suspect very few people had that sort of thought process rolling around in their head before reading it. It is spot-on. If you think he did it on purpose, it's a sendoff. If not, you bitch him out and give the free kick.
     
  13. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Yeah I had no clue what was going on there. Perhaps DB was ready to caution anyone in that grouping and the captain was silly enough to follow.
     
  14. ElasticNorseman

    ElasticNorseman Member+

    Apr 16, 2004
    Natick, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    For what it's worth, the "wrong player" (#4) was also the same person who had the elbow to Dempsy's face, so maybe there is a small amount of justice. Surely that was coincidence, and that did not enter the ref's mind, but it made me smile.
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yebda was in his face first, but the captain I think started swinging his arm around very demonstratively (and almost popped the referee in the nose in the process). One of them was going to be sent off, and I don't think he really cared which one.
     
  16. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    Heart-stopping! :)

    Just pausing to enjoy the moment.


    #19 Yebda was the man to send at the end.
    Don't let it go unnoticed that this time the US was the side benefiting from foul called against the offense in the penalty area on a corner kick (slash deep free kick).
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have mixed feelings on De Bleeckere's performance. For the moment, let's leave the offside goal call out of it (as that's the AR).

    On the one hand, I think De Bleeckere handled things very well. He managed the match, dealt with the misconduct that needed to be addressed and didn't impose himself on the game. On the macro-level, if you will, he did exactly what he should do and made the game enjoyable and as flowing as possible.

    Now, on the micro-level, he missed some major decisions and/or decisions that FIFA likely wants. There was the 100% penalty to Dempsey for the slap to the face. There was the kick-out at Altidore (very weak and something I don't want to be a red card, but that by the book it is). And then he appears to make the mistake and send off the wrong guy. In between, there were questionable penalty shouts where Demerit grabs a jersey and where Dempsey gets carelessly elbowed (all within a minute of each other).

    Can De Bleeckere get a passing grade when he misses all of that? Likely not. But he should also get credit for his overall management, style and foul recognition.

    We may not see De Bleeckere in the Final, but I'd still take him on any game compared to who else is at this tournament. Baldassi is the only one who I think compares to him in overall quality at the moment.
     
  18. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    This is what I THOUGHT I saw too, but lost track of everyone, as it seemed like there were three players dissenting. Whoever the guy was that was flailing his arms around was clearly the one to caution....I'd just need to see if Yebda was that player.
     
  19. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    With so much action in the area, it would be very difficult for any referee to catch the smack to Dempsey. The arm was already extended so there was very little swing making it even harder to detect.

    I may be in the minority, but I'm not going to downgrade a referee for failing to see that. He is focused on watching for fouls between the players right next to the ball. Dempsey is one place removed from that action.
     
  20. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    Exactly right. He managed the game well but missed more than one major decision. When is Jay DeMerit going to stop grabbing opponents' jerseys in the penalty area? Will it take a penalty kick before he stops? This is exactly the sort of behavior that referees do their homework about. E.g. Markus Merk / Oguchi Onyewu 2006. And with the 2nd round coming up and fewer games to prepare for, you better believe the USA's next referee will be very aware of this.

    I didn't think the 'careless elbow' against Dempsey was a penalty. The one where he got slapped to the face obviously was.

    That stupid kick-out at Altidore by the fouled Algerian player...if that draws a red card, I would be irate. It is understandable and harmless. I sure hope FIFA is okay with the way the referee handled that one today.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying it wasn't difficult, nor do I really find fault for him missing it. But the fact of the matter is that it's a game-critical call. It's a red card and a penalty that are missed.

    I don't know what the term is with FIFA, but I know in the FA, if you miss even one of those it's difficult (perhaps impossible... Englishref can clarify) to pass your assessment. Fair to the referee? Not really. But it's reality.
     
  22. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the replay I saw the captain was behind and go the right of Yabda, and he seemed to move his hand toward the De Bleekere's face rather rapidly. I saw De Bleekere flinch, so that may be what he was reacting to.
     
  23. vhatever

    vhatever Red Card

    Jun 16, 2010
    USA
    Too bad a great ref can't prevent the incompetence of his assistants. And ya that elbow on Dempsey should have been a straight red since the guy had a yellow... but it wasn't easy to see that foul.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I share your feelings on this. But, what's the difference between what the Algerian did and what the Nigerian did to get sent off the other day? Both rather weak, feeble retaliatory kicks. It was nearly universal here that the Nigerian needed to go even though the contact was minimal, because the intent and the act itself is what mattered. Do we then excuse the Algerian because he missed totally? It's not logically consistent.
     
  25. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    eh, I see this as an ok game. He missed the elbow on Dempsey, but there was a lot going on there. I think that it's really hard for us to say who should have been cautioned there at the end when we have no idea what was being said at that level. Both AR's appeared weak this game, but the center can't do much about that. In the end, a pretty well managed game.
     

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