Match 29: Brazil Cote x d'Ivoire Post Game

Discussion in 'GROUP G: Brazil, North Korea, Ivory Coast, Portuga' started by Ombak, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. Iranianfootie

    Iranianfootie Member

    Sep 8, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I agree. Brazil really dived a LOT.
     
  2. Pedro_Fut

    Pedro_Fut New Member

    Mar 10, 2006
    This flying back five feet is really impressive and nice to read. But I do want some example. Was there any particular play (like Ozil´s in the germany game) that upset you so much? Or is just a general feeling?

    You said after Drogba scored. I would say, after Elano and M. Bastos very dirty foul. The referee was not calling, what should a winning team, up 3X0, facing a nothing to loose team triyng to intimidate with physical plays do? Play physical back (and risk injuries + cards?)? Open the play? Or slow down, fall at every contact, not try to get advantage (for what, for another goal? For another and more physical foul?). 3X0, against a dirty team you don´t want advantage in fouls. You want every foul to slow down the game.
     
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  3. vhatever

    vhatever Red Card

    Jun 16, 2010
    USA
    FIFA almost always cheats or gives preferential treatment to Brazil. Unless the brazilian puts on a other/German uniform-- then they will card them for diving. Hi, Caucau!
     
  4. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


    so you are saying Brazil resorted to that AFTER they were being constantly beaten, had Kaka red carded in a weird way AND the Ivory Coast players had almost broke the legs of two different brazilian players in plays that would deserve a RED CARD anywhere in the world??

    no wonder Brazilians were avoiding being fouled (or rather, having their legs broken) and were acting in the end of the match. They had a few options: go for the ball, get a broken leg and see the IC player walk away without even a yellow, play rough and get red carded (like Kaka was for NOTHING, while IC players were not getting reds for REALLY violent tackles), give away possession till the end of the match and simply let IC players score... or dive and avoid a broken leg at the same time they tried to give IC players the red card they deserved since the beginning of the match.

    and STILL I dont see many examples of the exagerations you are making.


    I DO see a reason to hammer americans/british because these are the people who are ALWAYS hammering latin countries (including from europe) for diving and all this stuff. And interesting enough, those are two countries who base ALL their game on the physical aspect.


    why wouldnt I know what the MLS is? IF diveing is penetrating the german league, maybe that happened because referees were not enforcing the rules against hard tackles well enough.
     
  5. Kempa

    Kempa Member

    Sep 6, 2007
    Washington Suburbs
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Blanco got away with diving every single game he played for Chicago Fire.
     
  6. kaos1970

    kaos1970 Member

    May 2, 2008
    Halifax
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    God help me. Ummm.......there was one call where the CIV player slightly touched the thigh of a Brazilian player with his knee. To me that was not a foul but the embellishment that ensued drew the call. I believe the Ivory Coast player may have received a yellow for angrily telling him to get up already. I could be mistaken though. I will not go over the entire game and each tackle. The 2 posts that responded to me proved me right when they said "What would you do?" indicating that the diving was in response to hard fouls that were not called by the referees earlier.

    Again, all this proves my point which was that this match was refereed poorly and it was the fault of the referees that it turned into the mess that it did. It does not excuse the rough play or the diving though.
     
  7. kaos1970

    kaos1970 Member

    May 2, 2008
    Halifax
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    That's a funny statement. You are right. There are those in MLS who dive, thankfully not many though, and we all know what their names are and from where they played in the past. i am still laughing that you chose this this player as your example though. :eek::D
     
  8. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I guess no one can deny that the referee was atrocious and that his lameness made him lose control of the match, leading to that bad ending to an otherwise entertaining game.

    Doesn't matter if we are called divers on this situation. I'd rather be a diver with two legs, than a honest crippled ex-player. Ivory coast let their frustration get the better of them and that turned to aggresiveness... A shame, but it's understandable.

    Btw, we never signed any contract saying that we HAVE to entertain the crowd on every game we play... Even though our play wasn't that pleasing to the eye, we scored 5 goals in two games, while there is some big teams that struggled to score one in two...

    Plus those were some damn nice goals... Well it doesn't matter, n the end the haters will cry no matter what we do, that's their job :rolleyes: Their tears are delicious.
     
  9. kaos1970

    kaos1970 Member

    May 2, 2008
    Halifax
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Brazil knows how to win....that's a given and you are right......it doesn't matter how or why or how good you look doing it, you just win. I give you that!
     
  10. Nexuus9

    Nexuus9 New Member

    Jun 22, 2006
    Germans, English and even U.S.(the least by far but still happens) players, dive at times. When the fans of a Nation are not calling out their own players for behavior they seem to so openly despise, I'll call them out on it. That's hypocrisy. Can't stand it.

    Rationalizing diving is different though. You don't like the overly physical play/dirty tactics and you feel it is affecting the beautiful football. Okay I’m with ya there. You should want to solve that problem. Address the issue with F.I.F.A, the referee or start being more physical yourself (adapt). Don't create a new problem to address the old problem. It only makes it worse. Refs not only have to watch for the physical stuff now they got to watch out for the dives as well. It also affects us, the fans, since now there is more overall cheating and more fragmented game play.
     
  11. BSGuy321

    BSGuy321 Member

    Sep 2, 2008
    ^This.
     
  12. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    My take on the game:

    Diving

    IC were very violent today. Elano and Michel Bastos received studs up tackles that should have been straight reds.
    At the end of the match it was clear that they gave up playing and went for intimidation.
    The ref does nothing, what do you want brazilian players to do?

    Before that, I remember just 1 dive from Lucio.

    Kaka being sent off

    His first yellow card was stupid and deserved, but the second was a disgrace.
    He just protected himself.

    Dunga was a moron for not taking our offensive players off the game when it was clear that the game was over and IC was in for a fight.

    Luis Fabiano's handball

    The first one was unintentional, as he didn't even had his eyes open.
    The second one is debatable and should have been called.

    I think the ref said it but he wasn't sure, so he let the play go. If this is what happened, the ref must be congratulated. When there is doubt, the attack must prevail.

    I believe that's what he was talking about with Luis Fabiano. Something like "I think I saw you control with your chest/shoulder, did you?"

    Most beautiful goal of the WC, nevertheless.

    Brazil's strategy

    In the first half it might have appeared that IC was in control of the match, but that's just our gameplan.
    We want to defend and strike on the counter. It was very clear that they couldn't penetrate our defense.
     
  13. ridv34

    ridv34 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Even if he did have his eyes shut, that doesn't shut out his other 4 senses. It might of been unintentional the first time, but the second definitely wasn't. He tried to go with his shoulder, but instead had to use his hand to lower it, in my eyes, this makes it a clear handball.

    And I don't think anyone expects him to drop the play, I certainly wouldn't. If the ref didn't call it, then that's his problem. Fabiano is not the ref.

    And from seeing the replay with the ref, the body language is more than clear. You don't need an expert on the matter, you can even see the ref's smirk while he talks to LF. They had a good laugh about it, but it could cost him his job.

    This could have had something to do with IC's reaction. I don't know about you, but, as a player, if I saw that, I'd kick into 6th gear rage mode.
     
  14. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What sucks is that I'm not sure the ref missed it. After the play it looked like the teff was congratulating Luis fabiano and patting his bicep as if to say "nice job using you arm to bring it down"
     
  15. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Dec 5, 2005
    Macondo
    And not one Ivory Coast player said anything? Really?

    Weirdest series of events I've seen in a cup in a while.

    I'm surprised Brazilians are even trying to justify this horrible series of calls by making excuses like he had his eyes closed or whatever. "Most beautiful goal of the WC". Honestly? Fabiano's first goal was better imo.
     
  16. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The second handball by Fabiano is a good example of "deliberate" which has been discussed a lot on the ref forums wrt Kewell's handball.

    Fabiano has no intention of handling the ball, he does however deliberately place his arm in that position. His intention in doing so is to balance himself and help center his chest to trap the ball, but intention does not matter, all that matters is that he took the action that placed his arm in that position. It was deliberate and therefore should've been called.

    For the thread in general: a friendly moderator reminder to stick to the game. If you want to discuss diving and why it happens that's fine but don't derail the thread, keep it all on-topic.
     
  17. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    When was the last time you saw a goal in the World Cup scored following two sombreros, chapeus or whatever you want to call it? The last one I can remember is one I saw on tape from 1958.
     
  18. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think the defenders didn't see it either.
    I didn't see it the first time, did you?

    So the goal can't be beautiful because he used his hand? It was a striker alone against a defense with crazy people running at him. Few strikers could do it.
     
  19. JethroTricolor

    JethroTricolor New Member

    May 1, 2009
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    The most disgraceful for Côte D'Ivoire is that Kaká won't play against Portugal in a game that they need Brazil to win, and win good. They will have to cheers for JULIO BAPTISTA auhauhahuauhauh
     
  20. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Dec 5, 2005
    Macondo
    I don't remember either, but I saw 2 clear handballs including one where it was extremely obvious and he used it as leverage to get by the defender. I also saw the worst defending this cup so far by any team in IC.

    Beautiful to me was Higuain's 3rd against Korea after 2 masterful passes by Messi and Aguero and a brilliantly placed far post header. Not 2 blatant handballs.

    Yes I did. There were tons of defenders around and not one of them saw anything???? When was the last time you saw 2 handballs in the area and nobody complained? Never.

    It was just very weird. And then you saw the ref laughing with Fabiano afterwards?
     
  21. JethroTricolor

    JethroTricolor New Member

    May 1, 2009
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    The first handball had no intention. The second, well, was the very Brazilian malícia.
     
  22. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Did you read my very long post on this same page? :D

    I didn't see it and the other 3 people watching the game with me didn't see it either.
    You say that it was "blatant", and sure wasn't. Don't let the rivalry blind you.
    I think the ref wasn't sure, so he let the play continue and later talked to Luis Fabiano about it.
    That's FIFA's guideline, right? When not sure, allow the attacker to proceed. At least on offsides...

    Defenders complain about everything. If they didn't say a word, they must not have seen it.

    About "what goal is more beautiful" I'm not even going to argue, because it's a matter of taste.
     
  23. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I'm sorry, but Kaka threw the elbow and a guy coming upp behind him. STraight red. Forget second yellow. I am glad to see his ass suspended, We don't need that kind of crap.
     
  24. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    [​IMG]

    To me it looks just like someone protecting himself from impact.
    People want Kaka to jump out of the way so that Keita can run his course?

    Changing the subject: no love for Lucio and Juan?
    They were perfect.

    Poor Drogba must feel at home at Lucio's pocket after 3 games this season.
     
  25. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    What do you think the ref and Fabiano were saying? I've given my opinion previously, it's pretty easy to conjure a situation that doesn't require some sort of conspiracy where the ref was in on Fabiano's plot to use his hand.

    Also, the handballs weren't easy to see on the live shot. They became obvious on replays.

    Finally, worst defending of the WC was easily Cameroon x Denmark. Check out some match reports and tactical websites. They generally agree Brazil played very well and got hacked by CIV. But such is life as a Brazil fan, watch our team persevere, play well and get hacked all day only for others to rationalize ways to not give us credit for winning and to focus on all the negatives (the embellishment, the one ref mistake that favored us as opposed to those that went against us, etc.)
     

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