Match 13: Cote d'Ivoire x Portugal Post-Match Thread

In keeping w/CAF's performance in cup's. 1 for every cup unfortunately. Of course one does need to add that in back to back cups, the weakest S. African sides have drawn the easiest groups. Algeria and S. Africa drew moderately difficult groups while Nigeria, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, and Ghana all drew goups w/two legit, strong teams (Argentina and S. Korea, Holland Denmark, Brazil and Portugal, Germany and Serbia). Back in '06 Togo drew a weaker S. Korean side, a weak France side (they only played well in the knockout rounds, they sucked out loud in group play) and the Swiss, while Tunisia drew Ukraine, and S. Arabia to go w/a very tough Spain, and Angola got Mexico, Iran and Portugal. What did Ivory Coast, and Ghana draw? The Co-groups of death.

In back to back cups the two teams most capable of playing w/the big boys were dropped into the groups of death, and this year Nigeria and Cameroon were done no favors either (although after yesterday, its pretty obvious Cameroon isn't likely to scare anybody or last very long). So CAF has kind of gotten hosed in back to back draws, but all things considered, they were gifted two more slots than they should even have this tournament based on their performance historically, so maybe they're half-lucky.

At this point, I think Ghana is likely to advance, S. Africa's got more of a chance than I expected, and Nigeria have a nice chance due to GD, and Ivory Coast due to that draw today. We'll be able to cast the verdict on CAF soon, but one can honestly say this in favor of CAF: Ghana, Ivory Coast, and to an extent S. Africa exceeded expectations, while Algeria, and Cameroon were huge disappointments, and Nigeria well, Nigeria has it all to play for on thursday.

 

My final comment is that those that predicted that Portugal's midfield would be overrun by CIV's one were right, but they forgot that Portugal's defence is one of the most solid, not allowing CIV to create many chances. And Portugal's weakness is the lack of a constructive and fast midfield, like the one formed by Maniche, Constinha and Deco in 2004/2006, or Paulo Bento, Costinha, Rui Costa in 2000/2002.

 

I greatly dislike C. Ronaldo (while acknowledging his indisputable greatness as a player).

But the last "dive" being discussed above seems a bit harsh to me -- the incident that resulted in the handbags and the two yellow cards.

Even if he is not touched, the Ivorian is sliding with both legs across his path with no hope for the ball. I think the defender can charitably be said to be going for the ball, but he's rather far from it, and Ronaldo has to jump over him.

Yes, Ronaldo could possibly have jumped over him and continued his run -- but that is a huge impediment to his run without getting the ball. I think he should have been given a free kick.

How Ronaldo reacts to these things is another story of course. I will never, ever, ever forget his dive 4 years ago where he wasn't even touched and he was appealing to the ref in mid-air before he even hit the ground. Disgraceful.

 

If there is a plus for Portugal is Fabio Coentrao. He didn't disappoint at all.

 

Neither are contenders for anything. Their reward for second will be a meeting with Spain (barring Spain being upset by Chile), and that's where their tournament will end. Of course they have a punchers chance, just like Chile, and hey, even the Swiss [...cough..], but it's far different from getting the pairing a 2nd place team will get from B, D, E and F. Those teams actually get an opponent that doesnt necessairly present "potential best team in the world" resume when they walk on the field. For Portugal and Ivory Coast, just as for Chile or Switzerland (or long shot Honduras), the second round looks basically like a match they would have expected to see if they made the Final.

 

apologize if this has been mentioned already, but is pepe not ready to play yet? thanks in advance.

 

Portugal played much better in the second half of qualifying, and had been a finalist at Euro '04, semifinal appearance at World Cup '06, Won their group before losing to finalists Germany at Euro '08, Ivory Coast hasn't really done anything other than look good in losing at World Cup '06 and qualify w/ease for World Cup '10. They were disasters in back to back Nation Cup appearnces, including surrendering an 89th minute lead to Algeria. Ivory Coast are probably the most difficult team to evaluate among the Africans because there is zero consistency. They looked like they belonged against Argentina, Holland, and Serbia four years ago, they found a way to lose the '06 Nations cup, the '08 nations cup featured a 4th place finish and then they just stunk at the '10 nations cup. They are totally baffling, as they were at the end of today's game. Just bizarre.

Portugal, it's kind of easy to figure out. They are mentally weak, and their coach is well and truly horrible. However, they had played quite well over the past 9 months, and appeared back on the boil so to speak. Well not today, Carlos Q was in full effect and Ivory Coast got a very valuable point, and were close to getting 3.

 

Otoh, Ivory Coast has the good fortune of getting N. Korea last, when they may be quite demoralized. Both have their advantages. Really makes Sunday's game against Brazil absolutely huge. I don't think Ivory Coast can afford to play an open game against Brazil, but can they play any other way? Anyone seen them enough to say where they'll bring a flexible approach, or are they fundamentally a team that like Chile, plays to attack.

 

Absolutely not. He had to try and get a point without him to give him more time to heal, he got away w/subbing him on, got the point, and Drogba didn't reinjure himself. That was huge. Starting him would have likely been foolish.

 

Results from these scenario's:

1994: 2-0 w/6

1-1 draw with Sweden

1998: 2-0 w/6:

1-2 Loss to Norway

2002: 2-0 w/6:

5-2 win over Costa Rica

2006: 2-0 w/6:

4-1 win over Japan

Not sure what we can make of that. I think the safe bet is that they'll sit guys w/yellows, rest anyone hurt, and otherwise play to win, subbing anyone off who looks slightly at risk. And I also happen to think that they'll win. It is also quite fair to say that pressure will be on them, as they're already playing far too of a defensive game for their fan base, if they chuck the third game because they have six points, that could be a problem, not least because Portugal will likely be on 4, and if they lose it, they'd likely have a date with Spain in the Round of 16. I think they'll play to win, and if they have to settle for a draw, they'd tolerate it, but not be happy. From the record, we can see that they've only had one let down game in the last four tournaments in the last group play match. Plus, the way Portugal looked today, do you think they could even take advantage of the opportunity? I really think the only way they tie Brazil is from a moment or two of brilliance from Ronaldo.

 

And winning, regardless of how you get the result, and it works, so can you really fault him? I suppose i can, because it infuriates me, but at the same time it works. Bringing it back to the game, engaging in this tactic earned Portugal 2 free kicks, maybe 3 alone, all dangerous. As long as it pays, and the cost is rarely enforced teams will shamelessly indulge in it (and in fairness to Ronaldo, virtually every team engages in it to some extent, he and his just do it more than many others).

 

if not for the fact that Brasil always plays for a draw in the first game of group stage...it's the rule every team plays "do not lose the first match"...

 

CIV was actually playing the best football of any side of the '08 African Cup during the group stage and looked like shoe-ins for the cup until they tripped up during the knockout stage. But we have to remember that continental cup success, while it's nice, isn't exactly an indicator of World Cup success. The most successful nation in all-time and recent African Cup history, Egypt, has an attrocious World Cup and World Cup qualifying record. I think that all the WC countries involved inevitably saw the '10 cup as a warmup, nothing more.

But that's not to say that they seem to find a way to fall short in big competitions, but I think that with new leadership from Erikkson, they can make trouble. What I do like is how they didn't seem panicked by the absense of Drogba. They have a strong chance.

 

Overall I like the job that Erikson's done but his substitutions in this game were baffling. I would have liked to have seen Kalou in with Drogba up front. But instilling a mentality for solid, but careful buildup play and defensive integrity is frankly something that has been lacking from the African teams in this tournament imo. I'm actually glad to see it, because possesion is how you win and if you have the players who have good touch on the ball why not do it?

 

The problem is, how do we decide to rate Ivory Coast? How famous their players are? That they rolled their qualification group? What do you look at to come up w/the decision that they are great? That they crumble under pressure in ACN after ACN? That they almost didn't lose in their two biggest games at the world cup in the group of death 4 years ago? That they rolled their qualification group? Not sure exactly if Guinea, Malawi, or Burkina Faso are predictive of anything (though Burkina Faso looked potentially interesting as an up and coming side).

I happen to think they are the 2nd best team in this group, but they've often been a lot of things and it's rarely mattered when it comes to results? They've got two very big games to figure this out.

 

doesn't matter who is up front if they're not getting service they're no better than fence posts...

 

CIV needs a true striker up front; a healthy Drogba or Seydou Doumbia, with Gervinho, Kalou as wingers, K.Keita can come up early in the second half to replace either Kalou or Gervinho. I would not start Dindane.

 

They can rest the ball in midfield to plan for an attack, but fundamentally they play to attack, even more so than Chile (who can defend some, but not much).

I recommend watching their game against Ghana in the ACN. It was a very good game, and CdI showed a capability to stop the ball and think that you don't see often in such attacking teams.

 

What's so funny about it is that everyone sees it. You see that Nike commercial? The one where Drogba, Rooney, Cannavaro, Ribéry, and the others are all making great moves in the run of play? What is Ronaldo's great move?

That's right - a soft foul and a free kick.

 

he is in the line-up because he was the only one tracking back defensively, I think for that reason Dindane will start against Brasil

 

Considering the squad Portugal has entered this tournament with, coupled with the knucklehead coach, this result is pretty good!

 

I know today when I was watching the match on ESPN, there were several instances where Ronaldo dove and they thought it was kinda pathetic.

 

CQ is not a good coach but I think Portugal need energy players that can fill the void. Ronaldo is too selfish at times, and there are other call ups who can make an impact.