The Kyoto Sanga FC Thread

Discussion in 'Japanese Club Football' started by goru_no_ura, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I saw the game. Well, it wasn't as bad as I thought. Vissel dominated the first half an hour and scored one goal on a magic moment by Popo. The second goal was comical, my son's team would not concede such goal.

    But if one watches the whole game and counts the real chances, Sanga had as many as Vissel, but just Yanagisawa missed three good ones, and he is the only real forward we have in the roster.

    Kataoka was a disgrace, I wonder what was he picked for, since we have Jun Ando who is clearly much better, even if less experienced.

    I really wish to "congratulate" with our management for their winter picks. Going all the way to Brazil to get Chiego, when there were players like Popo already in Japan...

    I envision a bleak season, because Sanga is a dictatorship led by a man with little humility (Kato), and I doubt he would admit he put together a VERY low profile team and do something about it.

    I will be VERY surprised if Sanga makes it above 14th place. If there isn't a radical change in how we play and we don't pick at least one more goal scorer, it would be a LOOOOOOOOONG year...
     
  2. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Sanga should have gone for Ken Tokura.

    I think that they're one good striker away from being a mid-table team.
     
  3. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I agree, and what irritates me A LOT is there were plenty experienced forwards available this season... Suganuma, Popo, Maki, Fukai, Kurotsu, Bando, Tashiro, Fernandinho, Akamine, Robert Cullen, Mike Havenaar, etc........... All could have made a move to Kyoto for the right salary.

    Now, besides Yanagi, Sanga's most experienced forward is Kim, with 17 games and two goals in J1.
     
  4. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Well, we were lucky. 1-2 would have been a fairer score, but Antlers looked tired, Marquinos and Koroki missed goals they usually score, and Diego (who had two more huge chances) actually scored a wonderful goal--somehow deserved.
    Kwak has none of the skills of Lee Jonzu with the ball, but he is a better defender imo, so it fits our shaky team well. Nakayama seems to have found his balance, and looked now a decent J.Leaguer, Morishita did well considering the opponents, and Daigo Watanabe clearly has another pace compared to other Sanga players: as soon he came in he started to play the ball quickly (one, two touches and go), and we had three chances in five minutes.
    Overall a good result for Sanga, but it is a long, long way to permanence in J1. The team has somehow more heart than last season, and more experience, but much less quality. No real substitute came in for Paulinho, and Thiego, Kataoka and Kwak are inferior to Sidiclei, Yuto and Jonzu.
    Of course one good thing for Sanga is that Hayashi has been kicked out. I did NOT miss him.
     
  5. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Basse, I don't think Sanga plans to play with a "real striker" this season. It is a pure 4-1-4-1, or sometimes 4-2-3-1. The plan is to keep Yanagisawa up as a buoy, an if he doesn't get it, then he'll at least create space for offensive midfielders (Diego, Nakayama, Dutra when he'll be back...) pushing up. Unlike this year, Diego is now often in the penalty area, so I guess he'll score more goals, possibly a dozen goals?

    I envision Sanga going for another low-midtable season, just in the last two. I don't think we'll be involved much in the relegation struggle, but we'll always look behind our backs, and pray that no key-player gets injured. If we get a real player instead of Thiego, we could be aiming at 10th place. He plays in a key position, and he is a mediocre pick. (Ando would be much better, already...)

    Regarding comparisons, I believe that Sanga as quality somehow resembles other mid-low and low teams in the middle and forward, but it is way better in the back. Mizumoto was a NT player, and one of the best CB in Japan last season; Kwak is a Korea NT player; and Mizutani has been so far the best GK in J1 this season, with some amazing saves. If we had -let's say- Jubilo defense and goalie instead, we'll probably have now as many points as they have, no matter how good Diego and Watanabe could be...
     
  6. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I have two huge concerns after today's game.

    The first one is that Sanga this year seems rather unlucky. Between the two Nagoya goals, we played their better soccer this season, built many chances, hit the woodwork twice, forced Narazaki to a miracle... But the ball just won't go in.

    The second problem is more serious. And it is that the feeling now almost EVERY Sanga fan has is that Kato doesn't understand what is going on. Today he subbed Watanabe with Kato Koken (who is a central defender, not a wing), Thiego was moved as SB (for a half, then subbed), and two goal down we finished with the famous "zero top," in which Miyayoshi and Nakayama (who in Osaka was a Left SB) were the two darting up... midfielder? Forwards? Ah--whatever. Diego, our top scorer, finished as a volante...

    Basically, it is a fcuking mess.

    It reminded me of those times I was coaching 10yo kids, losing, and just trying move the boys around and see what happens... Fans were VERY depressed after the game. So many want Kato's head, but we know it will not happen, because he holds Sanga's administrators by their balls and he will be around for at least two more years--as per contract.

    Many who were going to Tokyo next week called it off after today, not because we'll lose (EXTREMELY LIKELY), but because they (we) are tired to see the team playing such messy and crappy soccer.

    Honestly, Sanga is not a top team, but if you think of the players we had in the last two years, it is worth the 10th place.

    But it won't happen with a manager who, when we go play Cerezo (with all due respect they were a neo-promoted team with no victories yet) thinks that "in the first half we must be patient."

    Pathetic.

    On top of that there are some serious problems with the Ultras supporters. But it really gets too depressing, so maybe I'll tell about that in another post.

    So far, looks like at Kyoto we're in for another painful & crappy season.
     
  7. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    As a Sanga supporter, I have experienced a lot of pain and disappointment. But seeing the Montedio fans DESERVEDLY dancing after the game today has to rank as one of the heaviest humiliations I have ever been through as a soccer fan.

    Honestly, a part of me is happy that we have lost. Because when you play home against a below average team, and you hit the field with one forward (Yanagisawa-who basically plays as wide winger) and go on the whole game sh--ting in your pants, you only deserve to lose. We even got a lucky undeserved goal, but clearly not enough to starting play football... Pathetic...

    I have no idea of what Kato is thinking. He said that the goal for this season is third place. With all the incompetent decisions he has made (such as losing Yuto Sato, and bringing in Kataoka and Thiego...), he is blessed by a 17yo with natural talent who just needs to play, and... Today, he (Miyayoshi) was granted FIVE minutes.

    Read my words my friend: I will rather fall to J2, than seeing one more season with Sanga coached by Kato.
     
  8. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Hi duded and dudettes, here is my Sanga update.

    Been a couple of hours on Sanga forums... 95% is royally pissed off and want Kato's head now.

    I was speechless and the lack of guts in today's game, but what do you expect by a team that has been taught to play while pooping in their shorts?

    After the defeat in Osaka Kato said "When you play away, in the first half you need to be patient..." There you go: when you go play against a team that hasn't won a game yet and you don't have the guts to play your game, you develop a loser's mentality.

    I personally belong to those who think that is better to fall in J2 than to keep seeing this gutless soccer.

    My guess is that Kato gets one last chance versus S-Pulse, and if he loses he's out. Actually changing the manager now and sending him to walk the plank versus the table's leaders would make no sense...

    But then again, we're talking about Sanga's management, the guys who thought we can switch Yuto Sato and Sidiclei with Kataoka and Thiego, and with them qualify for the ACL... (Kato REALLY said that in February, that the goal was to finish in the top 3!!!)

    Last note: Kansai teams so far really suck. None of the four is in the half-top of the table, and today out of the four of them, they have collected ONE point (Cerezo in Sendai...).
     
  9. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Yea well at least you're doing better than Kyushu :(
     
  10. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Saitama City,Japan
    Club:
    Omiya Ardija
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My impression of Sanga in yesterday's game

    1. They had a fair amount of possesion but didn't know what to do with it. The midfield is as bad as Omiya's.

    2. Dutra looks like a dangerous player but he was isolated so much he couldn't do anything. Why is Yanagisawa on the bench? I think if Dutra had an actual guy to cross to he'd be much more effective.

    3. Diego is woefully out of shape again. He barely could get through 45 minutes. Didn't notice him the second half.

    4. You guys have never been whiners but yesterday you had a couple that were bitching about everything.....Masushima and Kwak were the most noticable. To be fair, Kanakubo was embarassing in that category as well.

    5. Kwak is a really good player, between him and Mizumoto, you might have the two fastest centerbacks in the league.....they cover alot of ground. I was shocked to see you guys being the worst in goals allowed in J1.

    6. Kataoka wasn't awful yesterday.....that pissed me off. I was hoping he was going to embarass himself in a grand fashion and he didn't.

    The ref yesterday was a joke. You knew he was waiting for a chance to ruin the game for one team or another but he couldn't get the right opportunity.
     
  11. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Saitama City,Japan
    Club:
    Omiya Ardija
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One more thing.....It's tough playing a team who changes coaches before the game...more often than not they win just on adrenaline.
     
  12. stefanole

    stefanole Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    Hiroshima
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Kato's gone? edit: oh, Omiya changed manager
     
  13. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Koshi, thanks for the info. I can only stare at the ground, and sadly shake my head.

    The sad thing is that our players are not bad at all, as you pointed out. Kwak and Mizumoto I believe are above J.League average, Kakuda and Nakayama are OK, Yanagisawa is still a good player and there are a lot of interesting youngsters, including Dutra and Miyamoto.

    Diego's example is perfect. If he was in good shape, he could be one of the best players in J1. Last season, with all his extra kilos he delivered (if I remember it right) 9 goals and 10 assists. Yesterday too, our goal came from his cross.

    IF... IF... IF... there would be a coach who would know how to put players on the field, and how to motivate them, we could easily finish between 8th and 12th place.

    In 1998, the strategy consisted in dumping the ball up to Tahara, and see what happens. Paradoxically, it looked better than now. Kato wants the team to move the ball around like Barcelona, only he hasn't realized yet that instead of Messi he is fielding an overweight Brazilian.

    I hate to say it, but after three years of Kato, it is clear that he has failed, and we'll need to rebuild from zero, hopefully with a real coach.

    If it takes a relegation, so be it. We, the supporters, are quite used to it, we've survived it three times already. That would give the chance to rebuild, as Sanfrecce did two years ago, and how JEF and Reysol seem to be doing now.
     
  14. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Saitama City,Japan
    Club:
    Omiya Ardija
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's hard to say who will go down right now because 8-18 is really mediocre. besides FC Tokyo and Gamba (who I think the league would intercede in to keep in J1) any one of those 9 teams could go down. Kyocera put alot of resources into the team so Kato might get the axe soon if things don't get better. I think.

    Kashiwa didn't really rebuild, I think Leandro Dominguez was the only guy on the field today that wasn't with the team last year. They just waited too long to pull the trigger on firing their coach last year.

    I don't know what happened to Diego between his first year at Kashiwa and his change to Verdy but he ballooned. Any chance of selling him to one of the oil countries?
     
  15. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Last year's salary at Kyoto were #5 in Japan.
    The table said 12th.

    Well they're already rebuilding confidence.

    There were offers, allegedly, but would you sell the guy who scored nine goals and delivered ten assists? We're not like Frontale, that could light-heartedly dispose of Hulk... :(

    The deal with him is that he likes a lot to eat, drink beer (not a boozer, thou), and sleep. But he is always at practice, and still he comes out as one of the most effective players not only at Sanga, but in the whole J1... If we are to believe the stats. If my memory doesn't fail me, he has three goals and two assists, so far. A dream-like average, for a Sanga player. :rolleyes:

    BTW, I'd love one of the next teams we play to have to deal with a Sanga with a new manager on the bench...
     
  16. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Saitama City,Japan
    Club:
    Omiya Ardija
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just say that about Diego because he puts up good numbers but he kind of does it at the expense of the team. If he's not putting up offensive numbers, he's not really doing much else. I like him, I think he's a good guy but it seems like he's on the same diet as me.

    He put up big numbers at Verdy but they still went down. IIRC, he did a really stupid foul in an emperors cup match which cost him the last 4 games of the season (he was on 4 yellows for the second time for a 2 game rest and then he picked up a dumb red card)

    He was alot like Denis for us......good numbers but not much else
     
  17. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Saitama City,Japan
    Club:
    Omiya Ardija
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did notice that you are 0-1-4 in games where Kataoka starts

    Is Chiego that bad?
     
  18. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Believe it or not, he is worse than Kataoka.

    I swear, he is.

    And to think that he came all he way from Brazil to show that... :rolleyes:
     
  19. Value san

    Value san New Member

    Jul 3, 2008
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan

    uff... so the stuff they said in Brazil WERE right....
    if you need some scout, gimme a call!
    it seems that the someone made a bad joke with
    sanga regarding Thiego ><

    hey! he even made it into the news there:
    http://wp.clicrbs.com.br/planetabola/2010/04/19/willian-thiego-vaiado-no-olimpico-titular-no-japao/
    title:
    "William Thiego: Booed at Gremio, in the starting eleven in Japan"

    uff.. those comments are not nice...
    ><

    congrats on yanagis 100 goals!
     
  20. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Apparently leaving Thiego and Kataoka on the bench was enough to win a game, finally.
     
  21. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    ...make it two out if two...

    Thiego today not even on the bench, and -magic, magic- we won by more than two against a J1 side for the first time since April 2002...
     
  22. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    If you wonder how Sanga went from crap to actually play good soccer in the last three games...

    1 - Dutra is a very good player.

    2 - Thiego played only one of the last three games (the only one we did not win...), Kataoka none of them. Ando is WAY better than both of them, what a surprise, uh?

    3 - The 4-1-4-1 changed into a 3-4-2-1, with Masushima playing fantastic in the middle, and it is a massive surprise, because as a lateral defender imo he is barely J2 level. It took Kato three seasons and a half to figure out...?

    4 - Taisuke Nakamura, Miyayoshi and Koken Kato (the latter when used) are slowly but steadily coming of age.

    5 - Nakayama not a started anymore. He is a very skilled player and a good boy, but he can't defend. Kakuda is painful to watch at time, but he does the job - let alone the fact that this season scored three goals.

    6 - Diego seems having fun with Dutra, and might come to games a bit less hangover'd than usual.

    7 - Daigo Watanabe had a great game in Niigata. I hope it is a good sign...

    Tomorrow vs Nagoya should be a fun game!
    ...I hope...
     
  23. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member+

    Jun 17, 2007
    Ichikawa, Chiba, Japan
    Club:
    Consadole Sapporo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    the 3-4-2-1 formation is great. The only other teams coming to mind using that formation is Sanfrecce and Cerezo. You need wingbacks who can run alot though, as they have to focus both on defence and also be a big part of the offensive play, but if they do the job correctly you will literally play with 5 "defenders" when defending, and 3 FW's + 2 offensive wingers when attacking, so it gives you alot of options up front. I dont think its a coincidence why both Sanfrecce and Cerezo scored 100 goals in J2 with this formation. Of course it has it's downsides as well, but used correctly, the benefits outweighs those imho.


    Kyoto beat Nagoya as well earlier toda,y and with that they are more or less qualified for the next round arent they??
     
  24. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Okada, watch this!!!!!!!!!!

    YANAGI-GO-O-RU
    O-OH-YANAGISAWA
    A-TSU-SHIIIII
    YA-NA-GI GETTO GO-RU!!!

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZaS3vi7QQM"]YouTube- ????? 2010 ???????5? ????? ?????[/ame]
     
  25. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    If he had to watch every guy who scores a goal ... But this is really great. The pass to Diego, the shoot ... wow.
     

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