Just looking at some attendance figures for Denver, and I'm shocked at the Mammoth's average attendance (17,464). Thats easily better than the Rapids did (12,330.87), and also beat out the Avs at 14,504. Seriously? Now I know the Avs had a bad season last year, so the attendance slip is understandable. And soccer might be a fringe sport, but its popular almost everywhere else outside the US. But indoor lacrosse will pretty much be a fringe sport, either here in the US, in Canada (not as much but it will never overtake hockey), or anywhere else outside North America, I think we all can agree on that. So what gives? I've been to Mammoth games and didn't really care for them. I play and watch ice hockey and indoor lacrosse is pretty similar, but I still couldn't enjoy it nearly as much as hockey. Maybe its because I don't play it, but I would guess most of the 17,464 in attendance doesn't either. Maybe I needed to drink more, or get in that hot tub. The reason this really bothers me is because the demographic that attends those Mammoth games is the exact demographic that the Rapids is missing (20-35 year olds). You know the marketing for the Mammoth is doing great when the team at the bottom of the NLL attendance averages about 3,000 a game. I guess this is just more evidence that the Rapids are Silent Stan's forgotten team. Hockey and indoor lacrosse have hitting and fighting versus soccer which is more of an athletic sport, but under no circumstances should indoor lacrosse be outselling soccer. Until then, I'll be waiting for the installation of the hot tub in 108....
AIUI the Mammoth give away many (most?) of the tickets to a game. They also offer deep, deep discounts. So while they ma have mre tickets distributed they probably aren't making anything near what the Rapids are making.
Location, location, location. What would the average casual Denver area sports fan rather do? Jump on the light rail and ride to the Pepsi Center, or drive most of the way out to the airport to a barren plain in Commerce City? Plus downtown they have the option of eating out beforehand, or stopping for a couple drinks in LoDo afterwards. At the Rapids games there is...well a few poeple hang out and tailgate before the game. And then after the Rapids game they get to fight traffic afterwards. You and I know that the post-Rapids traffic is pretty trivial as far as traffic jams go, but they do not. Ticket prices may be a big factor. $5 vs $20? No contest if you have a big family. I think the Rapids tickets are outrageously priced, way too high. (Cue GoRapids comment..) The Rapids matches barely last two hours, while the others (Rockies, Broncos, Avalanche) last three hours. Dollars per hour of entertainement, if you want to think that way. The fact that the Mammoth outdraw the Avalanche is surprising. Yikes, what are people thinking?
Cost - tons of super cheap tickets as mentioned above Entertainment value - big pyrotechnics, Willy B harrassing the opposing team throughout the match, scantily clad dancers, hot tub, etc., etc.... Location Hype I'm not a Lacrosse fan at all, couldn't name a single pro Lacrosse player and never have any intention of following the Mammoth with any regularity PLUS I'm a HUGE socccer fan and avid Rapids supporter....but I still get a big kick out of dropping $5 to go to a Mammoth game. More importantly, my wife who likes the Rapids but could leave them by the wayside in a heartbeat if I ever stopped getting season tickets LOVES Mammoth games...she finds the whole spectacle the Mammoth puts on quite entertaining. I'm not at all surprised that after the Broncos the Mammoth are the biggest draw in town
But we have the ever-awesome Commerce City PD to help engineer traffic patterns. Twice last year the CCPD directed me to make the detour to outer Kansas to get back to FtC. That's worth at least a couple bonus points. You could say "Gajic" and score a three-for-one answer.
Wasn't there some guy named Gary Gait, the biggest name in the game, one more time? I know that because I think Mammoth advertising has at times been a step ahead of the Rapids. But that is an argument for another thread - I've never been to or watched a Mammoth (or Lacrosse) game.
9 home games + 50% of tickets free + strippers in a hot tub = big attendance. Do the players make more than a burger flipper? that league can barely be called semi-pro
Forgetting about baseball? Also, to the opening poster, if you're going to try to compare the Rapids' attendances across the table with the Avalanche and the Mammoth, consider the stats a bit more. The Rapids play 15 home games, the Avalanche 40, and the Mammoth 8. Even before you get to the artificial methods of inflating attendance stats, consider how much easier it is to sell 8 games a year as special events, and also fit in the pyrotechnics and jiggles within that budget. Consider as well that it only takes one huge-attendance game to drastically skew the stats with so few home games. Finally, that "demographic" that bothers you shouldn't, as less than half the NLL season overlaps the MLS season now and the NLL as a whole averages under 10,000 fans a game, including all gimmicks and ticket giveaways. They're not chipping into MLS's fanbase at all.
Is this when I say the Rapids are the cheapest ticket in MLS? If so, that was proven no longer the case. Although the North Terraces are only $12 a seat. Get on board!
Face value seems pretty similar to the Rapids. Maybe people like to see the Mammoth, for reasons others have posted. Maybe the Rapids should try what they're trying. Seems worth it to fill the stadium and at least make some money off food and beer.
We've already seen KSE try to apply the arena football/indoor lax model to the Rapids. All that has accomplished is an organization that has reverse-engineered their way into shrinking attendance, poor market value, and an under-performing team. All that contrived circus bullshit is 90% of the reason nobody in Denver or the rest of the MLS takes the Rapids seriously. It's already taken over 5 years for the suits at KSE to even consider positioning the Rapids like a professional organization instead of just ramming that bush league flim-flam down people throats. The Mammoth model shouldn't be embraced, it should be avoided like the plague.
I read somewhere that lax is the fastest growing sport in the US and I believe it. I've been to cheery hills, buell mansion, falcon hills, ken caryl valley, highlands ranch, the preserve and they all had lax goals in there back yards, some in the front too.
- I had a couple of paragraphs composed the other day based partially on that theme. Of course I wasn't able to keep it concise and without some additional over the top commentary. For once I had the good sense not to post it. But you nailed it.
Plush came to the Rapids from the Mammoth IIRC correctly because of his success getting the new brand/sport off the ground.
Colorado is a lacrosse hotspot. It's a popular sport here. I coach and play both soccer and lacrosse. I think that the venue being downtown attracts more people for sure. Tickets are cheaper (if Rapids tix were $5, I'd be at every game I was in town... I have my wife and three kids to pay for, so it's only like two or three Rapids game a season that I can afford now). And the last thing that I think is a HUGE reason Rapids attendance isn't better is that although tons of people are involved in the sport in our state (especially at the youth level), people who love soccer still prefer watching EPL, Serie A, La Liga, or Mexican Futbol League on television to attending a Rapids game in person. They argue that the quality is so much superior in other leagues and that MLS quality is still low. I think MLS is high quality soccer, not as high as some other leagues to be certain, but many people have that perception that the teams they would rather watch on TV are so much better.
I doubt this is true. The simple fact is that if the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, but not FMF were as popular as all that it wouldn't require a premium package to see the games and the number of bars showing the games would exceed the number of fingers on one hand. If there really is that much demand there'd be better evidence. The funny thing is that if what you say is true about soccer, then the Mammoth fans are a counter example. Their attendees are choosing a lesser product, in regards to the sport, than DU or the Outlaws.
Sure lacrosse enjoys some popularity here, but the Pepsi Center isn't getting packed with true lacrosse fans. People really just want the spectacle. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that a casual sports fan would come to a Rapids game just for the enviroment, and that is what the Mammoth do well. I'm not looking for the Mammoth to export the same model to DSG. Its just remarkable to me how well they do in attendance when most of the people don't watch lacrosse on TV, don't follow the players or the standings, don't follow the NLL, don't play lacrosse, and probably couldn't name ANY of the players on the team. Its the exact opposite of this at DSG IMO. The people who only watch EPL, La Liga etc. can't really be argued with that the players on the pitch in MLS are inferior to those in Europe. And there is a lot more of these types out there that just need a reason to come out to DSG and they will. We don't need to field a team that can compete with Man U, just a bit of atmosphere and a great player to follow would go a long way.
What's more spectacle than the Rapids annually stubbing their toes during end of season crunch time ?
Sadly, it helps the medicine (aka the TRUTH) go down. This mediocre organization is getting its butt kicked by indoor lacrosse. Enough said.
The "TRUTH" is as deep as the baby pool for you, eh? Analyze the numbers and the factors that go into them, instead of pretending that the stat given by the opening poster can stand on its own.
Maybe, just maybe, quality of play might have something to do with it? I went to the first Rapids game at the old Mile High, even followed them to RFK when they made their one and only MLS Cup appearance - and other than a few temporary winning periods it's been nothing but crap soccer the entire 16 years since those 'glory' days. The only way for this team to really build a fan base is to start acting like a professional team (sorry - a stadium with multiple mascots and free tee-shirts doesn't make you that). And I'm convinced the only way THAT is going to happen is for either the owners to sell the team to someone who knows how to draft, coach and develop a style of play that doesn't look like a pickup game - or do some wholesale changes to their front office who can do all of the above. They don't have to win the Cup BUT they at least have to show they're capable of winning it. And long-ball, hit-and-pray soccer isn't the way to do it. Frankly, I'm just about at the end of my charity for them and with all the sports in this town (LAX not included) I have plenty of options to spend my money elsewhere. Paying money to be frustrated has got to be on someone's list of 'insanity definitions'.