Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Exclusive audio of press call today with Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt, and Michael Oppenheimer on “Climate Science: Setting the Record Straight”
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now You realize it wasn't until the very recent past that we had even the slightest clue about the "exact process" of gravity, right? And technically... we still don't know the "exact process". Yet we still knew gravity existed for centuries without knowing any of the why/how.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Let's start with the thread starter. Inhofe is another. I didn't say "attack science", I said "attack the science". Most of the reaction to the CRU issue is not at all reasonable. Like the claim that this somehow means that global warming is "unraveling". Of course there is active research still going on vis-a-vis evolution. There is a lot to learn. But there is NO DOUBT that evolution has occurred, and is still occurring. Despite the fact that 61% of Americans are unsure or worse. Of course there is a lot still to learn. But we do know that CO2 concentrations have gone up 38% since the Industrial Revolution. We know that methane concentrations have increased by 138%. We know about 3/4ths of this CO2 concentration comes from industrial emissions (the other 25% primarily from land use changes). We know that CO2 concentrations have not been this high in about 20 million years. We know that CO2 is not the prime "greenhouse gas" (that would be water vapor), but we don't know precisely how much CO2 contributes to the greenhouse effect. We know that temperatures are on the rise. We know that historically CO2 tracks temperature very closely. None of these things are particularly controversial amongst climate scientists. The discussion should be about what policy decisions are appropriate. And I think there's a lot of room for discussion there. But that's not what we've got.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now They should report the story, but since it has not been proven to be a fraud -- and likely won't be, you should just keep watching GOP news for the latest on it. And I'm sure they'll incude more proof that the earth is only 6,000 years old in their science coverage.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now It looks like this thread is starting to peter out with the WC draw and all so I just want to try and find some common ground. Scotch17, I am willing, as a skeptic to admit there is a possibility that global warming is caused by man. Are you willing to reciprocate and admit there is a possibility that global warming isn't caused by man?
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now LOL! might as well try to agree on which is the group of death.
Re: Global Warming Raw Data Lost? Destroyed? I think it's time to merge these two threads, as we are basically discussing the same issues.
Re: Global Warming Raw Data Lost? Destroyed? I think we should come to some middle ground on other scientific disciplines. Can we not agree that while some animals may have evolved others were created by G_d Almighty himself? Or can we not agree that some heavenly bodies strech the space-time contimuum, while others are simply flat? Let's build a consensus here people! Meanwhile... Surely they have nothing to lose from climate change, surely they just have our best interests at heart? God bless the Truth Seekers
Re: Global Warming Raw Data Lost? Destroyed? Excellent idea, I was mulling over whether to link the above article in both threads or whether that would just be an overkill.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I think the current questions are to what extent global warming is caused by us and exactly what are the best policies going forward. Also, don't believe anything ASF says. Group G is the Group of Death.
Re: Global Warming Raw Data Lost? Destroyed? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nnVQ2fROOg&feature=PlayList&p=A4F0994AFB057BB8&index=5"]YouTube- 6. Climate Change -- Those hacked e-mails[/ame]
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now So, this is just evidence that you don't understand AGW/CC. It's not an either/or. You will never be able to find a climate scientist who doesn't believe that there are natural climate cycles and that some portion of our current warming trend is due to those cycles.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now ^^ Exactly, what is important is understanding what causes any change in question, evidence of change is not an argument in itself.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now The ranking member of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, for one.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Oh, a Republican politician denying global warming. Stop the presses.
Re: Global Warming Raw Data Lost? Destroyed? Maybe this thread can be renamed to include the Copenhagen conference? Pretty cool media offensive for once..... 'Fourteen days to seal history's judgment on this generation'
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now What conservatives and other deniers have never tried to explain is why they are against this issue, when there really is no downside to creating renewable energy resources...except of course to the coal and oil companies who donate to their... Oh. Never mind.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Don't forget that conservatives would rather go communist than admit the dirty ******* hippies might be right about something
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I'm all for creating renewable energy sources.... I just don't believe crippling restrictions and stiffling taxes are the way achieve that goal.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I remember when the car companies -- at least the US ones -- squealed about how there was no way they could do better with car milegae standards. Then gas hit $4 a gallon and all of a sudden we have hybrids coming out our asses. Sometimes it takes a little incentive to make things happen.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I've come to the conclusion that instead of a "cap and trade" bill, we need to just tax gasoline at about $1 per gallon. We use 142 billion gallons of gasoline per year. So in addition to reducing the budget deficit by 142 billion dollars per year we would also give everyone an incentive to buy more efficient cars.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now But that plan would involve PAYING A TAX!!! The horror. Don't you understand the only way to make this country great again is cut government assistance to poor people?
Re: Global Warming Raw Data Lost? Destroyed? I highly recommend checking out Ars Technica's take on this entire debacle. They have been pretty levelheaded, thorough and overall comprehensive. Some of the better coverage I've seen thus far on this issue.