Liverpool-Sunderland match incident

Discussion in 'Referee' started by imasyko, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sunderland scores goal in which the ball's path to goal was clearly altered when it struck an inflatable bouncing ball/balloon in the penalty area. The ball was struck by the Sunderland player, hit the balloon, changed course and went to the left of the GK, when the original shot was clearly headed to his right.

    The ref let the goal stand. Was that the correct ruling? I wouldn't know what to do had that happened in one of my matches.
     
  2. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It should also be noted that right after the ball hit the balloon, it also was significantly re-directed by a Liverpool defender, so it's hard to say how much each contributed to the change in direction.

    The balloon also came from where the Liverpool supporters are sitting.
     
  3. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    I would say if the balloon had a minimal impact on the path of the ball (I can't see how a balloon really does anything to a hard shot), before the defender redirected it, then I would let the goal stand. Different situation if the defender hadn't redirected it though.
     
  4. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    It was not a balloon, not even a beach ball. More like an exercise ball that significantly altered the path of the ball. And it resulted in the goal. This is the classical ball hits dog running in the goal mouth and the dog deflects the ball into the goal. It should not stand.
     
  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It will probably be taken down soon.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSOorkAqSqw"]YouTube - fcuking balloon![/ame]
     
  6. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    I don't think the defender touches it at all, it was all ball...
     
  7. Another NH Ref

    Another NH Ref BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 29, 2008
    Southern NH
    From the referee's point of view (FSC had one camera angle that was nearly identical to his point of view), it's almost entirely defender that got the ball and, it appears, the defender got the ball first.
     
  8. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    That does not explain the red ball moving upon impact. How about the AR and his angle? Can't give the referee an excuse. He blew it. Or should have blown it and restart with a drop ball.
     
  9. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5V0wfB3Iic"]YouTube - Funny Goal by a Balloon-Sunderland-Liverpool(1:0)[/ame]
     
  10. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the ball glances off the balloon, Johnson hits the ball, and then Johnson hits the balloon, all almost simultaneously.
     
  11. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Falc...support Liverpool do you?

    I have no idea what the proper call in this case is. I do know if I had been Pepe Reina I would have gotten rid of that ball before the counter attack started.

    But the FSW complained about everything the whole game. He should blame himself:cool: for only having ONE Premier league striker on the entire squad.:cool::
     
  12. boylanj64

    boylanj64 Member

    Nov 7, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This happened a few years ago. There was a similar question on askasoccerreferee regarding MLS and streamers where JA referred to the incident and basically said, it's the pros, deal.

    Edit: found the link

    http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?p=828
     
  13. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    The second video makes it clear that the goal should not have been allowed.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no idea what the correct decision should be.
     
  15. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    My allegiances are towards the peninsula south of England. Not a fan of Liverpool. Just calling it as I see it. The ball hits an object that is not suppose to be on the pitch and it results in a goal. No brainer. Goal not allowed and it is a drop ball. The Liverpool defender did not touch the ball. Otherwise, it would have deflected in the other direction. The referee blew it, plain and simple.
     
  16. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    I just frame by framed it on my TV, and I don't believe Johnson touches it. It is close though, so I can see why the referee could believe that it was the defender, even though the angles are wrong.
     
  17. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    At the end of JA askareferee post, they relay what FIFA have to say on the subject of foreign objects.

    "We put your question to an authority at the Federation, who responds that professional-level referees are instructed to manage their games with an eye toward preserving the entertainment value of the game without sacrificing player safety. ..."

    Pro level, play on until dangerous, or the defense object (prior to an incident).

    The show must go on!

    YMMV if you are not in a Pro game on TV.
     
  18. rippingood

    rippingood Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    LosAngeles
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More red exercise balls - more entertaining?

    Looked to me as if Johnson kicked the red ball. Reina clearly watched as the red ball moved to his right and the match ball into the goal to his left.
     
  19. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    And when it happened, there were 93 minutes left in the match.

    Nothing ever goes Liverpool's way....:cool:

    Z- cars anyone?
     
  20. rippingood

    rippingood Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    LosAngeles
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alas, I would say that quite a bit went Livepool's way after that. Otehrwise, score should have been 2-0 or 3-0 for S'land after about 80 min the way L'pool played. Skrtel's anemic header back to Reina that was intercepted and almost scored was pretty typical of their whole match. Other S'land balls off posts, fortunate save by Reina etc. could have easily gone Sunderland's way.
    [substitution removing Skrtl and the young guy helped a bit and at least made things entertaining].
     
  21. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    It doesn't look like the defender touches the soccer ball at all - if he did, the ball would have went to the post instead of the center.
    (he definitely hit the red ball)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2RusLT4BdM"]YouTube - SUNDERLAND 1 - LIVERPOOL 0 (Premier League 2009-10) 17/10/2009 Darren Bent vs Reina[/ame]​
     
  22. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    What exactly is an "exercise ball"? This blow up novalty ball blown up by the kid who threw it on the field, is called a beach ball where I come from. Hense a glorified balloon.

    The irony that this was a Liverpool fan, putting a Liverpool red, Liverpool logo'ed foreign object on the 6 yard box to distract his own goalie is not lost on me. (this poor kid is going to have a tough time at school Monday...)

    If EPL let last years goal with the white balloons stand, this should stand as well.

    Again , Pro and TV. 99.9% of us would have cleared at a stopage or done a drop ball. But I can see the Pro point of view. Stop the game for 2-3 minutes to clear the balloons or streamers or beach balls, restart, and they are back again 2 minutes later. Then what, it turns into a game vs spectator farce. Play on.
     
  23. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The answer then as to the ruling if it happened in a game of mine, is to disallow the goal and have a drop ball at the point where the deflection occurred?
     
  24. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Member

    Mar 5, 2004
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Reina had plenty of time to get rid of it. He probably left it there hoping it would give him some kind of advantage but then it backfired on him lol.

    I don't see how you can disallow the goal. As soon as you see the object you either have to decide whether its safe to play on or not. If not, you blow the whistle and get rid of it immediately - before anyone is even in the box, let alone taking a shot on goal. If you think it's fine where it is, you have to consider it part of the field and if the ball hits it then oh well, it's just like hitting a small clump of dirt or whatnot.

    Would you call back a goal because there was a clump of dirt that caused the ball to slightly deflect past the keeper? If not, I don't see how you could call back a goal because of this either.
     
  25. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Not according to the LotG.

    Once it interfered it should have been blown dead and a drop ball to follow.
     

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