Is It Possible That TFC Of MLS Could Be More Popular Than The CFL's Argonauts?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by MLS1FAN, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. MLS1FAN

    MLS1FAN Member+

    May 11, 2004
    Miami Beach,FL
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was reading this article this morning about the struggles of the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL on and off the field. Things have gotten so bad for them now with botched stadium deals and lagging fan support and bad results on the field, that the Argos owner Sherwood Schwarz is disappointed with the CFL and weary of fighting the familiar battle of getting noticed in a already congested sports marketplace. From the looks of things now as it stands with the Argonauts, their owners may have had enough!!!

    It leaves me to wonder if it's just possible that Toronto FC could be the first MLS clubs to be more popular than a more established professional league franchise in it's home city? I'm not from Toronto, maybe some of you TFC fans could shine a better light on this question?

    Thoughts!


    Article about the Argos: http://www.montrealgazette.com/spor...s/Argos+owners+have+enough/2100587/story.html
     
  2. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    We're really gonna compare TFC to a CFL team just so we can further, unnecessarily inflate the egos of Toronto fans? Seriously? We don't have more important (and less dangerous) things to do with our lives? :rolleyes:
     
  3. BSGuy321

    BSGuy321 Member

    Sep 2, 2008
    They are already more popular.
     
  4. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Keep in mind that, if we're going to make specious connections between MLS clubs and other "professional" teams...the Arena Football League predates MLS by nearly a decade, and we seem to have outlived most, if not all of the current incarnation of the National Lacross League. The Continental Basketball Association may not even play after this year either.

    And there are other examples.
     
  5. MLS1FAN

    MLS1FAN Member+

    May 11, 2004
    Miami Beach,FL
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey what is this I'm hearing? Does Toronto fans really have over inflated egos? :D Regardless of some of our feelings about Toronto fans, they (the club) are a big success story off the field in that community!

    They keep setting the standard for the rest of the league to follow! I'm not a TFC fan or anything like that, but I'm just stating what are the facts about their success! I could only dream that someday Red Bull New York could duplicate this kind of success story in the New York Metro area or even around the Newark area would make me happy.
     
  6. Sportsfan1

    Sportsfan1 Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    10-15-09



    Argonauts on cable compared to TFC on broadcast:

    8. CFL: Argonauts at Roughriders, Saturday, TSN: 698,000

    btw..that was the lowest rated CFL game that week:

    others:

    3. CFL: Blue Bombers at Tiger-Cats, Monday, TSN: 949,000

    4. CFL: Lions at Eskimos, Friday, TSN: 824,000


    and the big team:

    1. NHL: Penguins at Leafs, Saturday, CBC: 1,686,000

    10-5-09-

    9. CFL, Alouettes at Argonauts, Saturday, TSN: 446,000


    TFC didn't make the list that week.

    9-28-09:

    5. CFL: Argonauts at Blue Bombers, Saturday, TSN: 714,000

    again TFC didn't make the list....the top of the list was pre season NHL games with over a million viewers.


    9-23-09

    It was also a good weekend for NASCAR, which attracted 243,000 to TSN2. That race was also on ABC, which means at least 500,000 Canadians tuned in to that race.

    7. CFL, Argonauts at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 634,000

    Some CFL games that weekend got over 1 million..again TFC didn't make the list....however this did:

    14. Auto racing, IRL Japan, Sunday, TSN: 142,000


    So did this:

    13. Soccer, Portsmouth at Aston Villa, Saturday, Sportsnet: 175,000

    and finally:
    10. Soccer, Toronto FC at Seattle, Saturday, CBC: 85,000

    17. Soccer, Toronto FC at Chivas, Saturday, Sportsnet: 40,000

    I rest my case..another MLS bigsoccer.com illusion
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. TopDogg

    TopDogg Member

    Jan 31, 2000
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Sherwood Schwartz hasn't owned the Argos in years.

    And I'd say the Argos are still slightly more popular than TFC, but dropping rapidly. They had a 100 year headstart (oldest pro franchise in North America), so they've got a bit of a cushion. Their TV numbers kill TFC's, but that's likely due to more overall interest in the league across the country rather than local interest.

    And to the rest of you, kiss my egotistical ass. :rolleyes::D
     
  8. Sportsfan1

    Sportsfan1 Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    7-20-09

    Ok, so CBC is gonna drop TFC...so now it will only be on limited cable? Because the ratings are so bad.


    what is really sad is that TFC's CBC ratings destroy all USA MLS teams..who get less than 20K viewers on tv weekly...except LA and Seattle.

    however those local cable vs national broadcast...TFC on national cable isn't much better.

    but percentage of pop it is...

    if you extrapolate TFC to the states..it would get 1 million viewers per week.
     
  9. Sportsfan1

    Sportsfan1 Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    maybe so...but there are 8 teams so all major cities pretty much have a team...except Quebec city and Ottawa.


    I do not live in Canada..but based on numbers...I seriously can't by that they are close.
     
  10. TopDogg

    TopDogg Member

    Jan 31, 2000
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You do realize that the CFL is entirely on "limited" cable (TSN), and as you note, their numbers are great for that league, right?

    My point exactly.

    More of a footprint creates more neutral fans who will watch games between teams that aren't their own.

    Why would people outside of Toronto/Ontario care about TFC? I suspect the overwhelming majority of those TFC TV numbers are from local viewers.

    Trust me on this, in Toronto (not Canada) TFC and the Argos are pretty close, despite the national TV numbers (CFL has no local deals, neither does TFC for that matter).

    TFC could surpass the Argos within five years if current trends remain the same, and even so the Argos TV numbers will remain higher due to the rest of the country propping them up.

    The CFL is hugely popular in Western Canada (minus BC). It skews the numbers big time.
     
  11. SxSxWxC

    SxSxWxC Member

    Mar 16, 2007
    Wyandotte Crossing
    The Argos were founded in 1873, the Cincinnati Reds were founded in 1869.
     
  12. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    No, that's not the same Reds--though an argument can be made that they are today's Atlanta Braves. The current Reds started either at the beginning of the NL in 1876, or in the American Association in 1882, depending on your perspective.
     
  13. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    As to the general question--I'll spin it a little and say I'd rather own TFC.

    A TV viewer is worth, oh, $1 or $2. An in-game attendee for TFC is typically worth $50 and up.
     
  14. Sportsfan1

    Sportsfan1 Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Of course..

    but Toronto does draw:

    http://www.cfl.ca/schedule/year/2009/time_zone/0

    but not as many games.

    with much higher ticket prices..and a ton more tv revenue
     
  15. Tdotsoccer

    Tdotsoccer Member

    Apr 23, 2006
    Toronto FC is basically a local product along with the Raptors. The Leafs, Blue Jays, and Argos are somewhat more apart of a national scene. A lot of people in Canada claim the Blue Jays as their baseball team so their ratings get propped up quite a bit outside of Southern Ontario.

    The Argos are in the same boat, while the Toronto as a market has grown and imho the CFL has been pushed to a 2nd rate product in this city.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the Raptors, in this city, are wayyy more popular than the Argos, but national TV ratings say otherwise. They get next to no viewership outside of ontario unless they go far in the playoffs (i.e. 2001). Same thing with Toronto FC.

    So in short, there is no doubt that TFC is more popular in Toronto than the Argos, but the Argos get their viewership propped up by the people out west who are hugely into the CFL.

    I have no problem thinking of teams as local teams, and I guess this is where Toronto gets a part of its "centre of the universe" identity when it comes to sports too.

    I couldn't care less if someone in saskatchewan is not watching, or watching a Toronto based team.

    The Argos are for sale, and play out of the dome where they are the red headed step child. That should say it all... really... the Argos have been bankrupt before, and the current owners have been getting propped by David Braley, the owner of the BC Lions.

    One big mess really.

    For the record TV Ratings in Canada, and TV Ratings in the US are completely different when it comes to prestige. A National TV contract in the US can give a team significant money. A National TV Contract in Canada will give you money, but not significant. The gate is where most teams get their revenue from.

    CFL supporters will always point to ratings, but many of them know what's really going on in Toronto. They just don't want to admit it.
     
  16. MLS1FAN

    MLS1FAN Member+

    May 11, 2004
    Miami Beach,FL
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very strong points!
     

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