Player of the Season

Post 115? Is that the rambling one where you rather strangely assert that the Man U players had to vote for Gerrard by default? Does this mean that you think that the Man U players thought that Gerrard was having a good season (even if you refuse to recognise this fact)? Or do you think that the Man U players were too stupid to recognise any other good performers outside OT other than Gerrard? Or that somehow all Man U players would have a block vote for one of their mates? A somewhat typical breakdown in logic there. Unless, heaven forbid, you actually were making a claim that was complete b@llocks!

We disagree on this issue, Teso, accept that this happens on occasion. I would not have voted for Giggs and apparently neither would you. So really we agree that we don't think Giggs was a worthy winner as by our judgement of the available players, Giggs was not the best performing one and was outshone by others. Your defence of his victory is motivated simply by club loyalties and is somewhat embarrasing considering that you yourself have admitted he should not have won it. Be consistent and acknowledge that Giggs' victory was a surprise and unmerited on his level of performances compared to the other candidates.

 

Some players think Giggs is deserving of winning this award at some point in his career - they tell other players - they agree since they know the award is pointless - all the players agree to vote for Giggs - Giggs wins it.

 

Giggs has played 40 games this season to Gerrards 38.


What I find interesting is that people resort to trash-talking Giggs in order to champion Gerrards case. We've gone from:

"I'm not sure Giggs is that deserving of it" to....................

........"Giggs is average at best, it's a travesty, a terrible mistake, he doesn't even deserve to be nominated for f*ck sake!!".

I find this very interesting. Liverpool fans often resort to this when any debate surrounding Lampard and Gerrard arises. I've often heard it said that "Lampard is sh*t? He's nowhere near as good as Gerrard! They're a league apart, you don't know anything".

Aside from the obvious fact that Lampard clearly isn't "sh*t" I do find it interesting that in order to increase the case for Gerrard many fans resort to demeaning any other player to a level so low that, in their heads at least, it becomes a no contest.

In this particular topic Gerrard has taken changed guise from merely a contender, to an outright winner who both statistically and performance wise wipes the floor with all of the other contenders put together. He's been turned into some sort of demi-god by some and I think it's laughable.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Until late January at the earliest, Gerrard was having a thoroughly average season. It was only after his performances against Real Madrid and United that people started really talking him up and, let's forget, he went missing for Liverpools biggest game of the season against Chelsea...........

 

Of those 40 appearances for Giggs how many has he started and how many minutes has he played?

Of those 38 appearances for Gerrard how many has he started and how many minutes has he played?


Also, most Liverpool supporters will actually say that Xabi Alonso has been clearly better than Gerrard and he has been the best and most consistent player in the Premiership this season with only one below average match (vs Middlesbrough) for the season.

 

Again you are telling porkies. I am surprised you can type because your ever-expanding nose must keep hitting the keys.

Gerrard was favourite to win this award when he got injured against Everton. He was also top scorer in the CL Group stages (along with Messi) and had 13 goals by the turn of the year. If this was average how come this was more goals than anyone except Anelka? The answer is that this is not average.

Gerrard was injured in that game against Chelsea and has not played since. Harry, you only accepted that Gerrard was having a good season when he destroyed Evra and Vidic at OT (along with Torres). However most followers of the Prem season were aware much sooner than your good self. I assume you did not see Liverpool destroy Newcastle in December or Gerrard's brace against Hull or in Marseilles?

Harry you decry the posts of LFC fans who belittle Giggs' contributions this season when championing Gerrard and yet you do the exact same thing when assessing Gerrard's contributions.

You've even gone so far in another thread as to claim that goals do not count when assessing awards for good performances! This is a ridiculous assertion as it is goals that are the primary determining factor - those who score goals and play their part in creating them are praised. If no goals are scored then those who almost scored or who prevented them are praised. Consider all the media attention given to Macheda - he has contributed little except a goal (actually two) and yet this is enough to get lauded. Presumably you did not praise him for such an insignificant thing as scoring a winning goal.

 

Revo, Gerrard has somehow contrived to play less games than Ryan Giggs this year, Ryan Giggs who has, according to some, not played any games at all. How can that be explained? How is it that Steven "the countries best player all year" Gerrard has managed to play less games than a player that some are demeaning to as nothing more than a squad player?

I find it interesting that you use statistics and numbers to back up your arguments when it suits, yet you ignore the fact that Gerrard has now played 3 less games than Giggs this year? You use Giggs lack of apearances as fodder yet ignore the fact that he's played more?

On top of the laughable notion that Gerrard has been the best player at Liverpool never mind in the country, I'm struggling to see how you are arguing a cohesive point here, rather than simply fighting a corner for a Liverpool player.

If you had any sense you'd suggest Alonso and we'd all be done with it but you continue to undermine your argument with the senseless suggestion that Gerrard's form over the last 2 months makes him the countries best player.

No, I simply dismiss the ridiculous notion that Steven Gerrard has been the countries best player this season whilst appreciating why Giggs was nominated.

At the end of the day the PFA had a choice and they chose Giggs. Live with it. Accept this and you'll find inner peace my friend.............

 

EPL season 2008/09

Ryan Giggs - 1217 minutes played

Steven Gerrard - 2275 minutes played


This Gerrard vs Giggs debate is ridiculous. Especially from you Harry as I think most Liverpool supporters would back Alonso for POTY, as he should have been.

 

My point was only that Giggs hasmade sufficieint apearnaces this year.

You have to factor in more than just appearances though. Giggs has added to value to just about every game he's played this season, where as Gerrard, despite the stubborn refusal of most Liverpool fans to acknowledge it, has not been outstanding all season. Indeed, Alonso is the player who has kept their title challenge on track for 90% of the season, not Gerrard who's outstanding performances since the turn of the year are, in my opinion, nullified by his utter in-effectiveness between August and December. While United were away in Japan, Liverpool were busy dropping points at home, with the apparently infallible Gerrard in the team.

What I cannot abide is this argument that Gerrard has played more minutes and therefore because of this he should automatically be considered ahead of Ryan Giggs for this award regardlessof consistancy. What makes it even more cringe worthy is the inaccurate trash talking of Giggs contribution in order to somehow strngthen the argument further.

Taking everything into account the award should really have landed in Nemanja Vidic's lap in my opinion, but Revo believes that his flawed point that "defenders never win it" somehow makes this an irelavance?

All in all, I won't begrudge Giggs his award because his contribution has been vital and, all in all, he's the one sitting pretty at the top of the league because of it.



Edited to add:

I wasn't aware the league appearances were the sole contribution that was taken into account for this award. I believe European, League Cup and FA Cup also contribute.

 

Gerrard has had a good season but nothing more. He has also not been the best midfielder on his own team nor the 'driving force'. You are another person who has fallen into the goals/assists trap which is only one component of what should be considered. Ronaldo has 17 goals and 6 assists in the league but no-one is claiming he should have won and rightly so.

As far as I am aware the voting is done in two stages. The first vote determines the shortlist and the second determines the winner. As you cannot vote for a player on your own team it means Gerrard gets the Man Utd vote by default in the second stage. I have tried to find a link to explain the process but I cannot find one at the moment.

I have already stated that I considered Vidic to rightful winner but I also explained that you can make a case for each player in the shortlist and, while I might not personally agree, any of them could have won it for a variety of different reasons. That is why I find this Giggs abuse, after the fact, to be pretty ridiculous because we have been discussing each players and the issues involved for a while now. No-one should have been surprised so this abuse and anger is ridiculous to say the least. It is even worse when you have people whining about starts or appearances or minutes played as if it is the only deciding factor. In the case of Liverpool fans it also conveniently ignores Torres being in the team of the season.

 

Two players that deserve recognition (but not winning the title)

Van der sar, Stephen Ireland

 

I think vanpersie 11 and best goalie is almunia

 

lol nah

maybe if van persie had continued his pre x mas form

 

van der sar > almunia

 

whose this list of keepers? last time i checked cech has made more errors than almunia

people seriously under rate almunia

 

Almunia is an uder-rated keeper but it takes time for a keeper to establish himself. For years he was the mistake -prone understaudy to the mistake-prone Lehmann and people still view him as that keeper.

He's been getting better and better but let's remember that he's only been Arsenals number 1 for about 18 months-2 years and that's was consequence of Lehmann leaving.

While he proved his ability in the first leg at Old Trafford, I'd say keepers like Friedel, Reina, VDS, Cech and Tim Howard are better.

 

i disagree but whatever

 

With what, that Friedel, Reina, VDS, Cech, Tim Howard, Shay Given and possibly Schwarzer aren't better keepers?

 

yes

schwarzer has been inconsistant most his career

reina makes questionable decisions

vds has the best defence in the world in front of him

tim howard is horribly over rated cus hes a yank

shay given is a quality shot stopper,but so are most keepers

i think almunia is a good keeper thats not far behind vds, cech and given

 

Given the list of highly questionable reasons you've posted there, I think it's important to point out that all keepers have their faults. The only point you make that has any credit to it is the one regarding Schwarzer. Yes, he's been fairly inconsistant of sorts but then he's played the majority of his time at Middlesbrough?

The rest are rubbish. Howard's over-rated because he's a yank? (what has nationality got to do with anything?)

Given is a quality shot-stopper but so are most keepers? (I'm not actually sure of the point you're trying to make here?)

VDS plays behind the world best defence? And that makes him a lesser keeper how?

Reina makes questionable decisions?

Really, all you have done is listed generic cliche's about keepers without enforcing any particular point.

Almunia is a decent keeper, nothing more, nothing less.

 

hes better than decent mate, hes not 'world class' but hes a quality keeper

i think we should agree to disagree and move on

 

Did somebody just compare Manuel Almunia to Friedel, VDS, Cech & Given?

 

Just walk away...its already gone too far.