1. Only natives of your club's country. (Will Europeans survive this test?) 2. Only players who either were raised in and/or spent the most significant part of their careers in your club. In short, your club indisputable native idols: and none else's. Here are mine. Flamengo (RJ, Brazil) Starters: Júlio César Jorginho-Leandro-Domingos da Guia-Júnior Zizinho-Bebeto-Zico-Evaristo Dida-Leônidas da Silva Subs: Ari Mozer-Aldair Dequinha-Rubens-Moacir-Adílio Perácio-Adriano-Vevé-Julinho 'Uri Geller' César Coach: Zagallo*** ***Zagallo (& Gérson) spent the most significant part of their careers in Botafogo. But both were raised in Flamengo, where also played for long time. In order to fllow my own crieria I didn't include them in 'our' players roster, but I think Fla & Botafogo could very well 'share' them. And of course there are many others of the same level: Juan (CD, Brz NT), Djalminha, Marcelinho Carioca, Joel, Índio, Henrique, Esquerdinha, Biguá etc etc HOW ABOUT YOURS?...
Oops, Forgot Sílvio Pirilo. Vevé loses its place... ***Gérson was Rio de Janeiro champion for Flamengo (where he played for 4 years - 59/63 - where he achieved the highest goal rate of his career) before transferring to Botafogo & Zagallo in the 1958 WC still belonged to Flamengo (for whom he played for 7 years).
[size=+3]Milan[/size] L. Buffon Tassotti-Costacurta-Baresi-Maldini Donadoni-Trapattoni-Pirlo-De Vecchi Rivera Inzaghi Bench: Rossi C. Maldini Rosato Gattuso Albertini Prato Boffi This was a tough exercise. Especially at striker since most of Milan's greatest attackers were foreign(Nordahl, Van Basten, Sheva, Weah, etc.). I assume oriundi are not allowed which is why Altafini has no place on this team. I also excluded Nesta from the list since he actually played more seasons for Lazio than for Milan. In any case, Milan's foreign best eleven would wipe the floor with the above squad.
Universitario (Peru) ------------------------------ Dimas Zegarra ------------------------------ ------------- José Fernández ---- Héctor Chumpitaz ------------- Nicolás Fuentes ------------------------------------ Luis La Fuente --------------- Roberto Challe ------ Luis Cruzado ------------------ Alberto Terry ------- Germán Leguía ---- Juan Carlos Oblitas ------------------------- Teodoro Fernández ----------------------------- Substitutes: Rubén Correa; Fernando Cuéllar, Eleazar Soria; José Luis Carranza, José Del Solar, Roberto Martínez, Víctor Calatayud, Juan José Muñante; Percy Rojas, Eduardo Rey Muñoz, Ángel Uribe.
Since there are not Botafogo (RJ, Brazil) rooters in the Forum (I guess) I'll try my hand: Botafogo (RJ, Brazil): Starters Manga Josimar-Nilton Santos-Marinho Chagas Didi-Gérson Garrincha-Heleno de Freitas-Jairzinho-Quarentinha-P. César Caju Subs: Wendell Cacá-Zé Carlos-Pampolini-Rildo Carlos Roberto Amoroso-Amarildo-Paulo Valentim-Roberto-Zagallo PS: Maybe a better team than my Flamengo 'All-Time 11'.
Ok...Here is my native XI: -----------------Dida Rodrigo---Adaílton---Agnaldo---Júnior -------------Bigu---Vampeta ---Alex Alves---Ramon---Mário Sérgio ----------------Bebeto Players raised in the club: Dida, yes, is the actual Milan GK. He raised in Vitória (1992 - 1994) and was runner-up in Brazilian Championship 1993. Rodrigo, 3 matches for Brazil NT. Played also for Bayern Leverkusen (1995-1996) Adaílton, currently playing for Santos F.C. Played also for Rennes (2004-2006). Júnior, currently playing for Atlético (played for São Paulo last year). 22 matches for Brazilian NT (1 goal at WC 2002). Vampeta, retired, played also for Corinthians. 41 matches, 2 goals for Brazilian NT (including WC 2002). Alex Alves, played also for Hertha Berlin (1999-2003). Bebeto, retired. Left Vitótia at 18 y.o. to be successful at Flamengo. Played also for Deportivo La Coruña (1992-1995). 88 matches, 52 goals for Brazilian NT (WC champion 1994, runner-up WC 1998).
No Vasco da Gama fans either? (I’ll try my hand too): Vasco da Gama (RJ, Brazil): Starters Barbosa Bellini-Orlando Piinga-Jair da Costa Pinto Friaça-Ademir Menezes-Fausto-Vavá-Romário-Edmundo Subs Miguel Marco Antônio-Augusto-Danilo Alvim-Coronel Juninho Pernambucano-Donato Sabará-Almir-Roberto Dinamite-Chico This team is a world wonder...
Ay, ay, ay ay... All-Time... Santos (SP, Brazil): Starters: Gilmar Calvet-Mauro Zito-Formiga-Mengálvio-Clodoaldo Dorval-Pelé-Coutinho-Pepe Subs: Laércio Dalmo Lima Del Vecchio-Robinho-Pagão-Araken-Feitiço-Cláudio Adão-Edu-Tite
Chelsea Starters: Peter Bonetti Ron Harris John Terry David Webb Graeme Le Saux Frank Lampard Dennis Wise Peter Houseman Bobby Tambling Peter Osgood Kerry Dixon Subs: Kevin Hitchcock John Dempsey Scott Minto John Hollins Ray Wilkins Nigel Spackman Roy Bentley A bit difficult as Chelsea's best era consists of a lot of foreigners. A lot of fun putting together though.
The 'Academy'... Palmeiras (SP, Brazil): Starters Marcos Djalma Santos-Luís Pereira-Djalma Dias-Roberto Carlos Ademir da Guia-Rivaldo Julinho-Chinesinho-Evair-Mazzola (Altafini) Subs Valdir de Moraes Antônio Carlos Servílio- Dudu-Jorge Mendonça Leivinha-César-Nardo-Tupãzinho-Zequinha-Gildo
Man Utd ---------- Dennis Viollet - Tommy Taylor -----Bobby Charlton ---------- Bryan Robson ------- Duncan Edwards - Nobby Stiles Roger Byrne - Bill Foulkes - Rio Ferdinand - Gary Neville ------------------ Alex Stepney I really hate that box-midfield. My problem with doing Man Utd was fourfold: 1. The initial criteria has a severe impact on British sides as the teams, notably in the past, were constructed with players from across the United Kingdom (and Ireland). It is a unique set of circumstances. and rules out an awful lot of players who would normally merit inclusion. 2. European sides obviously have a far greater influx of foreign players than the majority of the sides listed thus far. The elite sides are also not selling sides so there is far less turnover of players (notably though the youth system). In comparison to Brazilian sides the population debate does not require any further explanation. 3. When looking at the history of a club you tend to look back at the great teams that retain a prominent place in history. When doing so with Man Utd you have the Munich air disaster. It makes it difficult to historically (from a club perspective) rank the players because we must look at what they achieved (as opposed to what could have been). Following that the aim was to rebuild the club to get back to where they were and win the European Cup. Once the subsequent team achieved that goal a decade later they fell away as opposed to maintaining any success. 4. There are lots of similar wingers who had success over a similar period of time but none stand out. By contrast there are a lot of central midfielders who did. Thus the box-midfield that I detest. I will try to look for a solution later.
Sporting Clube de Portugal -----------Peyroteo------------ C.Ronaldo--Travassos--Luis Figo--- ----F.Mendes--Oceano--------- Hilario--J.Carlos--J.Vieira..J.Morais- -------Vitor Damas------ - 2 Ballon Dor/ World player winners - Peyroteo scored 331 goals in 187 league games,[1] establishing him as the Portuguese first division All-Time-Topscorer, surpassing Benfica's legendary striker Eusébio, who has a record of 319 league goals. He is also the soccer player with best rate of goal by game (1,6751) in soccer's history, leading a select list of the only 15 players who have more than a goal by game.[2] -Travassos was one of the first Portuguese footballers to achieve international level, playing for the FIFA Team that defeated England 4-1, in 1955. He is considered one of the best Portuguese players of all times. He gained notoriety as a member of the legendary Sporting's attacking force known as the Cinco Violinos (The Five Violins). While in Sporting, Travassos managed to win four Portuguese championships in a row from 1950 to 1954. - Morais injured pele in world cup 66 lol. - Hilario is usually considered best leftback in Portuguese football history - some players were not actually born in Portugal itself ( a couple born in african colonies) but all played for Portugal at international level. - figo and ronaldo obviously got more famous elsewhere
Corinthians Dida Zé Maria - Domingos da Guia - Fábio Luciano - Wladimir Roberto Belangero Marcelinho Carioca - Sócrates - Rivelino Neto - Viola Subs: Gilmar, Ronaldo Oreco, Henrique, Célio Silva Vampeta, Ricardinho, Zenon, Dino Sani, Basílio Edílson, Luizão, Casagrande, Luizinho, Baltazar, Cláudio To find a defender to play with Domingos da Guia, was very difficult, Corinthians isn't specilizaed in good defenders. If foreigners were possibly, put Gamarra instead of Fabio Luciano, Rincón instead of Belangero and Tevez instead of Viola.
Sorry, But you're not following the threads criteria. Domingos da Guia just played in 'final of career' for Corinthians. This way rubro-negros will have the right to advocate Garrincha who did the same for Flamengo. His relevant phase (between 24 and 31 years-old, born 1912) was played in Flamengo, having even played the 1938 WC while rubro-negro. Bangu de 1929 a 1932 e de 1948 a 1949 Vasco em 1932 e 1934 a 1935 Nacional URU em 1933 Boca Juniors ARG 1935 a 1936 Flamengo de 1936 a 1943 Corinthians 1944 a 1948 Same case of Edílson, who just played in Corinthians between the 28-30 years-old having really had his best moments in Palmeiras. Besides, Gilmar was for Corinthians the same that Zagallo was for Fla: played for several years there but just had his name really taken to the heights when playing for Santos (same case of Zagallo for Botafogo). But is a less grave case than Domingos, since Gilmar was raised in Corinthians. And OK, we'll lend Marcelinho Carioca to you (raised in & Brz Champion for Fla and already a consecrated player when he went to Parque São Jorge).
Man Utd. Peter Schmeichel Gary Neville------------Gary Pallister-------Buchan---------Denis Irwin Roy Keane---------Bobby Charlton Cristiano Ronaldo Eric Cantona Ryan Giggs George Best Subs: Alec Stepney, Steve Bruce, Jaap Stam, Bryan Robson, Paul Scholes, Van Nistelrooy, Denis Law Why??? Peter Schmeichel: Quite frankily the best Keeper ever the great dane spent 8 years at us and was fantastic even chipped in with a goal lol.. Gary Neville: Who else?? Not everyones cup of tea but he is Man Utd thru and thru has spent all his career at man utd and hopefully he goes behind the scenes as a coach. Gary Pallister: Tough choice was either him or Jaap Stam in my eyes but he was a monster a cornerstone to alot of our success in early nineties he was a good footballer as well and scored a few goals as well. Martin Buchan: Have only watched old videos of him passed down by my dad and grandad but this man was fantastic. He would have Vidic out of the team now. Denis Irwin: Mr Reliable never did you hear of Denis having a 10/10 game or did u ever hear of him having a nightmare he just went out and done his job on training pitch then on matchday. Roy Keane: (C) was another tough choice him or bryan robson what a toughie.. but keano was a legend he is probably the best irish player ever. words cant describe him Bobby Charlton: Yet another player i only watched via videos but he was a genius his creativity atheliticism and goal scoring makes him a certainty in my team Cristiano Ronaldo: Controversial pick to some people maybe people will ask wheres beckham or kanchelskis but love him or hate him Ronaldo is the best player in world right now and what he has done for united in last three seasons is unbelieveable Eric Cantona: In the hole behind the striker was deadly.. The best player i have ever seen enough said... To me the best player ever to play football Ryan Giggs: Mr. Man Utd... He is a true loyal servant and for all his record breaking appearances he has been as good as he was the very first day. George Best: How hard was this?? but has to be George true legend fast skilful eye for goal and he was hard as nails. Subs: Alec Stepney-- quality influential keeper, Steve Bruce-- No nonscience defender and a proven goalscorer as well. Jaap Stam-- the most complete defender everhad pace strength tackling everything u want in ur defender, Bryan Robson--A true warrior the numureous broken bones in his career is enough said, Paul Scholes-- Ginger Magician can pass a ball with skill forty yards and also proven eye for goal, Ruud Van Nistelrooy-- Goal scoring record is enough, Denis Law ;- The first crowned king of Manchester United... he was great goalscorer
Real Madrid ----------------------------Zamora--------- Segio Ramos-----Manuel Sanchís Hontiyuelo---Hierro-----Camache Michel--------Gallego------Rafael Martín Vázquez------Gento --------Butragueño------------------Raul------- subs Iker Casillas Pirri Amancio Juanito Chendo Manuel Sanchis Santillana From all-academy ----------------------------Casillas--------- Chendo-----Manuel Sanchís Hontiyuelo---Pirri-----Camache Michel--------Gallego------Rafael Martín Vázquez------Raul --------Butragueño------------------Juanito-------
I think that in that case you're entitled to cite Di Stéfano, since he had double nationality, having played the bulk of his career & even worn La Fúria's jersey.
None elses? Damn, that rules out some true idols of Boca Juniors, like Maradona and Batistuta for example, who spent the bulk of their career being idols elsewhere. And what about players like el loco Gatti, who was an idol at another club first, but then became associated primarily with Boca? Do they qualify? I'll try to do Boca when I get a chance. Too many to chose from, even with this criteria.
Nope. I said that as a sine qua non condition those players had to be native of that club's country. So the careers of Maradona, Batistuta, Redondo, Careca, Salas, Rincón, Kaká abroad are not relevant to this thread. Maradona had his best period in Argentina playing for Boca (and an exceptional one, although short), so Maradona is a Boca player. Argentinos Juniors might have a claim there but the thread is opened to the 'sharing' of players by two or more clubs of the same country if they do have equal importance to them. OBS: I think that the 'native' criterion is interesting in order to give more value to the clubs that invested in their own national talent. And also to hinder rivalries of the type: 'Maradona is Naples', 'No, Maradona is Boca', or 'Maradona is Brazuka' because he wore the Brz NT jersey in a Guaraná Antartica commercial... lol
Ok, then you have to include Diego, because even though he was at Boca only a short time at his prime, he came back to retire at Boca, plus he's a true idol and forever identified with Boca in Argentina. But it's tough to choose, what do you do for our playmaker? Do you go with Diego, who's the best at the position, but wasn't there that long? Or pick a guy like Rojitas, who was also a true idol and who played his whole career at Boca? Then there's Cherro, a true great from the Amateur era, and right now of course we have Riquelme who won so many international titles with Boca. Decisions, decisions...
Puskás also played more games for Real Madrid than Honved or any other clubs. He was also capped by Spain. Does he qualify?
Sure. Maradona is Boca. Sorry, Naples rooters. The thread (although it's an 'All-time 11) is opened to the inclusion of 11 other 'subs'. So feel free to mention all of them.