Designated Player Discussion

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by RobsterCraw, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. RobsterCraw

    RobsterCraw Member

    Mar 28, 2008
    The point of this thread is not to call for us to sign a DP now or anytime in particular. It is just to discuss when it would be appropriate to do so and at what position should we look to plug-in a DP and who should it be? I think this is an interesting question for us to discuss.

    Personally I don't think this is the right time to sign a DP. Perhaps when the new stadium is up, or if more games are being televised with broader distribution in the future. It's important to get a maximum positive impact on revenues.

    Also, it may be better to get the most out of him by letting our much altered squad learn to play together for a season or two before fitting in a DP. If you brought in a creative passing midfielder with great vision, then it may seem good to build the team around that central ability, but I'd be worried that such a team would be turned on its head if the DP were to leave or suffer from long term injury.

    I think that when we do sign a DP, the best position to fill would be a creative attacking midfielder, but right now we have that kind of quality in Hucks and Convey. Second a straight striker, would be great and would fill seats better than a hotshot centerback, but we have a lot of power in our forwards now. A quality fullback would go a long way towards getting results, in games, particularly at rightback.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When the Earthquakes get a DP will have nothing to do with hen the new stadium is up or when television distribution is up. If an available worthy DP suddenly becomes available tomorrow and Yallop/Doyle want him (after evaluating him, of course), he'll be on the team tomorrow.


    On the other hand, plopping a DP into the middle of an established starting lineup may be disruptive, as was the case with Denilson with FC Dallas in 2007.

    It'd be best to add the DP early on and have the entire lineup gel accordingly. Even if the DP then gets hurt or whatnot, he'll still have positively influenced his likely-younger replacement in the lineup, much like how Shea Salinas' moves became very Huckerbynian near the end of the season.



    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  3. JuanCasa

    JuanCasa Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Oakland
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know enough about our team (haven't seen them play in the pre-season) to really state if a DP centermid would be better than a forward. I can say that MLS needs attacking football and I think our defenses are pretty good....so no defensive DP. Also no outside mids for DP....as was shown with beckham, there's not enough impact to be made out wide.....maybe Ljungberg will prove me wrong. But the success of Blanco and Angel and Schelletto (sp?) should be our model for how to use a DP for the TEAMS success.
     
  4. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with everything that has been said here, but the most important of these points, to me, is that he be a player who is a real team player, someone who fits in well. The LieWickedly-Becks episode is the object lesson for what to avoid, the Angel-Schelotto type is what we ought to aim for.
     
  5. OffMyLine

    OffMyLine Member

    Nov 30, 2007
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At this point, where we're close to the cap, I wouldn't want to take a 400K cap hit for a DP. We'd have to dump two quality players to make room.

    When Huckerby is gone, then we'd have room for a DP.
     
  6. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly! Beyond that, if we are paying Convey say $300K and we sign a DP for $400K, that's $700K off of an approximately $2.2M cap. That leaves us $1.5M or so for the rest of the roster. That's not such a good idea.

    Maybe if we signed a really killer striker. There's just not that much to be gained from signing a DP if you already have a guy hauling down big bucks on the club.

    We'll have to see, but I think we may well be good enough without signing a DP.

    GOOOOO QUAAAAAAKES!!!!!!!! :D

    - Mark
     
  7. IrishWilliam

    IrishWilliam New Member

    Dec 28, 2008
    Alameda
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Schelotto wasn't a DP...

    anyways I think we can wait a while for one, maybe in a few seasons we'll focus on that, but now we're near the max, and we'd cut too much quality to provide for room
     
  8. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt we will be getting a DP even after we get the stadium. Wolff likes to say that the money is there to get one but considering how he plans on going about the stadium I doubt that money exists.
     
  9. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the question is: "Would Frank want one?" After having been in the midst of the Beckham bullshit, I am certain he would be extremely careful in picking a DP. "Once burned," and all that.
     
  10. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You may be right. I was taking my cue from a post above.
     
  11. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But then again, for every David Beckham, there's also a Juan Pablo Angel and a Cuauhtémoc Blanco, DP's who have helped their teams on the field.

    There's no reason to avoid obtaining a DP "just because" just as there's no reason to obtain a DP "just because". If he can be a true help to the Earthquakes, then the team should try and get him.

    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  12. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You just said what I said.
     
  13. sko16

    sko16 New Member

    May 2, 2007
    Israel
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Israel
    The problem is whether or not we could afford one. And the answer right now is no. It would screw up our team chemistry. We'd become another LA.
     
  14. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The cap is so low, you can't really even trade DP slots. No one seems to want them.
     
  15. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can the Earthquakes afford one? Even in this economy, I'm sure that John Fisher alone could, much less how much the combination of his, Lewis Wolff's and minority owners Mike Crowley's and Billy Beane's wealth could.

    Can the Earthquakes fit him under the cap? Aye, now there's the rub.

    Screwing up team chemistry? For a team that won the MLS Wooden Spoon last season, the DP would have to have a very cancerous personality (something even David Beckham doesn't seem to have) to screw that up further.

    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  16. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as having money is concerned, both Lew and Dave Alioto have said that "money is no object." (I am correct on that quote, am I not, Goodsport? I think you were there at the same time as I was.) Whether that has changed given the present dismal state of the economy, I cannot say, but, also, as sko16 says, it's a matter of team chemistry, and I am absolutely certain that that is one thing that Frank Yallop is most cautious about. Paying for a dp would make a big dent in the salary cap, and I wonder whether that would be a bone of contention for the other players. The guy getting that kind of pay would have to be someone who really made the team move well and someone they would all recognize as a leader and team player.
     
  17. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not a question of whether our owners can afford the bill or not. We've covered that. The question here is whether we want a DP right now.

    DP = $400K
    DH = $355
    BC = $300K

    Um, no. We're up against the cap right now, so we aren't going to squeeze a DP under the ceiling.

    Even next season, we're going to be paying Convey $300K+ whatever increase he gets on the season and then we'd still have a bunch of cap eaten up by two players.

    I think that Convey is going to have to be our "sort of" DP, that is, if he can play up to the level we're hoping for.

    GOOOOO QUAAAAAAAAAKES!!!!!!!! :D

    - Mark
     
  18. RobsterCraw

    RobsterCraw Member

    Mar 28, 2008
    I think the right perspective is to assume that there will be no DP until either convey or hucks has moved on. Hucks isn't young but he could surely still have a few good years left in him in our league. Convey's USMNT ambitions may see him looking for a good transfer back overseas if he can find his form, but he may also try to excel at SJ and break back into the national team from MLS. Considering that there is definitely not $400k in salaries that we could give up on in the rest of the roster, it would destroy the team, signing a DP just isn't feasable as long as Convey and Hucks are in there.

    One thing that worries me though is that Convey and Hucks excel in the same spaces, and both would normally play left wing. If Convey doesn't adjust well to playing central, then there might not be any justification for keeping the two in the same roster.

    Even if it were feasable to sign a DP, it wouldn't necessarily be the best thing to do. Although it could give the squad a performance boost in the short term, there is something to be said for trying to build the club up to sustainable success. Even if "money is no object", that extra spending on playing staff is not sustainable. Losing money on a DP when the club isn't even profittable within the cap is just bad business.

    DP's can be good for a couple of reasons. First, if you want to go for silverware, sometimes it's hard to get there without really going for it. If bringing in honors will increase support and revenues in the long run, the DP could be a good move. Second, it may not be that the player has to have a world-beating impact on the field to have his overall impact on the balance sheet in the black. It could be that the players popularity with local fans would bring in more supporters and sponsorship deals. The only way I could think of this working for quakes in the near future would be signing a known Mexican player.
     
  19. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was indeed the quote. :)

    Granted, that was when the economy was in a bit better shape, but that just means that FO would now really need to do its homework on a prospective DP before signing him up.

    In other words, it wouldn't be a matter of whether the team could sign him, but rather whether it should and would sign him.

    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  20. xANOTHERxSTARx

    Mar 4, 2007
    first of all, i dont think you want to consider a dp if you're building a team. you really build a [good] team/franchise by first starting with the backbone. you wouldn't really want a dp to be that backbone b/c who knows what will happen.

    and scouting in general requires a bit of homework. scouting a dp requires a lot more homework. you wouldn't want to spend bigbucks on a guy who wont work in your system, nor do you want a circus act.

    huckerby felt like a dp to me.
    he brought quality. the team started moving forward almost as soon as he came. he became a hero and im sure at times the whole stadium looked to hucks to save the game for us. not only that, but he is a total class.

    class is something i want from a dp.
     
  21. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    He wasn't last year, but he is this year because he wanted more money than could be justified for a regular player. The team may need to keep the DP slot open just to keep Convey or Huckerby if their salaries go up.
     
  22. JuanCasa

    JuanCasa Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Oakland
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    huckerby felt like a dp to me.
    he brought quality. the team started moving forward almost as soon as he came. he became a hero and im sure at times the whole stadium looked to hucks to save the game for us. not only that, but he is a total class.



    I feel the same in regards to Hucks, and I'm perfectly content with our team as it is. I, like most in this thread, am concerned about salary cap space. Throw too much $$$$ on too few players and you have scum from last season.......not an example that we (anyone actually) should follow. So we should be patient for a DP, but if Frank finds someone that he thinks he could bring in during summer or so, then I'd be open-minded to it.
    As for bringing on a mexican, I'm not against it...but who? Not borgetti...........but, bravo?
     
  23. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A very good point, indeed.
     
  24. JohnWP

    JohnWP Member+

    Jun 24, 2004
    Monterey, CA
    I respectfully disagree with this. I think Blanco and Angel are the only examples of successful DPs. Examples of DP busts are much more plentiful -- Gallardo, Lopez, Becks, Denilson, Davino -- off the top of my head.

    I'm not opposed to acquiring a DP if a good one comes available. But generally speaking, I'd rather have two or three guys on Hucks, Convey, kind of money that one on DP money.

    The Kinnear/Yallop approach has proven to be successful in MLS. Go looking for untapped talent and fill your roster top-to-bottom with decent, solid, blue-collar professionals. If you do that, you have a competitive roster AND some stars will emerge -- Ching, DeRo, Clark etc. I'm thinking we may have one of those Yallop success stories in RJ. So, I'd rather see us avoid the DP route unless it's an incredibly good fit.
     
  25. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All picked through the use of the AEG-LieWickedly formula: "Get someone we think is top flight so that we pack butts into the seats, who gives a crap about the team." (Not a direct quote, but effectively the same.)
     

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