Gaza Thread Discussion Part IV

While there is no comparison between ISNA (Iranian Student News Agency) and "honestreporting.com", I don't recall posting anything from them on bigsoccer. Sorry to disappoint you. Indeed, most of the links and sources I quote are from media outlets that are regarded in the west as "mainstream". In fact, quite often, from Israeli media or ones in the US. Many of these, reports that (intentionally or not) "admit" a point I want to make.

On the other hand, if I want to argue a partisan point, I make my own argument and don't see the need to splash the arguments of a partisan site here.

 

I've noticed that most of the quotes you posted are fake, they don't show up in a google search aside from some (very few) message boards. I wonder where you found these quotes? I can't help but feel that they were devised only in order to counter the actual statements made by the leaders of the Palestinian and Arab world. Who make these statements publicly and to huge cheers and applause.

And yes, I would be interested in knowing where you came upon these "quotes."

 

Here is a link to the Corriere della sera article about Hamas's actions

http://www.corriere.it/esteri/09_gennaio_21/denuncia_hamas_cremonesi_ac41c6f4-e802-11dd-833f-00144f02aabc.shtml

It could be like in Jenin in 2002. Initially we spoke of 1,500 deaths. Then
came out they were only 54, including at least 45 guerrillas who died
fighting.
Doubts about the number of victims could be 600 and not 1300
"So the boys of Hamas we have used as targets'
Gaza residents accuse the Islamic militants: "We prevented from leaving
their houses and shooting from there"
Lorenzo Cremonesi, Corriere della sera (Italy) - 22 January 2009

GAZA - 'Go, go out of here!
Do you want the Israelis kill us all?
You want to see die under the bombs our children?
Take away your weapons and missiles, "shouted many among the inhabitants of
the Gaza Strip to Hamas militants and their allies of Islamic Jihad.
The bravest were organized and had barred the doors to their yards, nailed
to the boards of buildings, locked up as we go along the stairs to the roof
higher.
But for most of the guerrillas did not listen to anyone.
"Traitors. Collaborators of Israel. Fatah Spies. Cowards.The soldiers of
the holy war will punish.And in any case all will die, like us. Attacking
the Jewish Zionists, we are all destined for paradise, you are not happy to
die together? ".
And so furious shouting, breaking down doors and windows, hid in the highest
floors, in gardens, used ambulances, we baracaded near hospitals, schools,
buildings Assembly.
In extreme cases fired against those who tried to block them the way to save
their families, or beat wildly.
...
And there is another fact that is emerging more and more evident by visiting
clinics, hospitals and families of the victims of Israeli fire. In truth,
the number appears much lower for almost 1300 deaths, in addition to about
5,000 injured, reported by the men of Hamas and repeated by the official UN
and local Red Cross. "The deaths could not be more than 500 or 600. Mainly
boys between 17 and 23 years recruited from the ranks of Hamas that has
literally sent to the massacre, "says a doctor Shifah the hospital that will
not necessarily be said, is to risk his life.
One thing, however, also confirmed by local journalists: "We have already
reported to the heads of Hamas. Why insist on inflating the numbers of
victims? Strano, inter alia, that non-governmental organizations, including
Westerners, the reporting without verification. In the end, the truth may
come to light.
It could be like in Jenin in 2002. Initially we spoke of 1,500 deaths. Then
came out they were only 54, including at least 45 guerrillas who died
fighting.
As we have arrived at these figures?
"Take the case of the massacre of the family of Al Samoun neighborhood of
Zeitun. When the bombs hit their houses have reported that 31 had died. And
so there have been an officer of the Ministry of Health controlled by Hamas.
But then, when the bodies were actually recovered, the sum total is doubled
to 62 and so went to the calculation of total numbers, "says Masoda Al
Samoun of 24 years. He adds an interesting detail: "To confuse the water we
had put the Israeli special teams. Their men were disguised as guerrillas
of Hamas, with a green bandana tied in front with the inscription usual:
there is no other God besides Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet. In order to
create chaos. We happen to shout them to leave, feared reprisals. Later we
understood that they were Israelis. And 'Just visit any hospital to
understand that the accounts do not add up. Many beds are free . The same
goes for "Nasser" in Khan Yunis. Only 5 of 150 beds at the private Al-Amal
are occupied. In Gaza city was evacuated the Wafa, built with donations
"Islamic charities" of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Gulf countries, and
bombed by Israel and the end of December. The institute is known to be a
stronghold of Hamas, were hospitalized here its fighters wounded in the
civil war with Fatah in 2007. The others were at hand, Al Quds, which is
bombarded the second half weeks of January.
He says this fact Magah to Rachmah, 25 years, inhabitant of a few dozen
meters from the four major buildings in the complex health now seriously
damaged. "The men of Hamas took refuge mainly in the building that houses
the administrative offices of Al Quds. They used ambulances and forced
ambulanzieri and nurses to remove their uniforms with symbols of paramedics,
so could be confused and better to escape Israeli snipers.
This has reduced a lot of the number of beds available in health
institutions in Gaza. As well, the Shifah, the largest hospital in the
city, remains a far cry from the record sold out. "Hamas had hidden there
the cells and the emergency room for interrogation of prisoners of Fatah and
the secular face of the left who were evacuated from the prison was bombed
in Sarajevo, saying the militant Democratic Front for the Liberation of
Palestine.
It 'was a war in this war between Fatah and Hamas. The local humanitarian
organizations, mostly controlled tell of dozens of executions, cases of
torture, kidnappings in the last three weeks' perpetrated by Hamas.. One of
the most notorious cases is to Shakhura Achmad, 47 years old, resident of
Khan Yunis, and brother Khaled, right-hand man of Mohammad Dahlan (former
head of the security services of Yasser Arafat, now in exile) who was
abducted on the orders of the Head the local secret police of Hamas, Abu
Abdallah Al Kidra, and tortured, he would have torn his left eye, and then
was killed January 15.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY50cktUKbA"]YouTube - Hamas fires from foreign Press building in Gaza January 2009 - Unintentional News from Alarabiya-TV[/ame]

 

your logic is pretty stupid. Is there really a difference between outright stupidity and being completely deluded ? I really wonder.

 

The American Palestinian girl pawns the Israeli American girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!









[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Fomj2UK50&feature=related"]YouTube - Palestinian VS Jewish Girl Argue On U.S Television Over The Crisis In Gaza - 2009[/ame]

 

She pawned her? What did she get for her? And how do you pawn another human?

 

There's lots you can learn from that video: But i'll just put this one for lack of time, then i have to go.

Palestinian girl:"My family has been there for 10 generations"

Israeli girl: "My family has been there for 35 years" Yeah great comeback

 

As she said.."It dosent matter"..

 

The only way you can say the atomic bombs were terrorism is to say strategic bombing by all sides in World War II was terrorism. Or to say all war is terrorism. To stretch the definition of terrorism that far is not rational, IMHO.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate military targets, with military bases and industry in both cities. The Japanese almost didn't surrender after both bombs, so to say they would surrender after bombing a rural area is very questionable. An invasion would have killed millions of Japanese and probably a million Americans, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Chinese who were dying each month the war was prolonged.

 

Bump.

Noticed this still hasn't been answered. I've tried to find this study but haven't been able to track it down. I'd like to see this as it's a topic I haven't seen covered before and would be interesting to work through.

Please link this study Earthshaker

 

Well, then enjoy your war...


Btw: What would diverse countries in the Middle East be without the billions they get from the "West" (concerning oil, tourism and development aid)? And should the West expel all Muslims if you want a Middle East free from any Western influence? But you like Western technology, don't you...?


Bonne nuit.

 

Please don't goad IM into more threads on the glorious inventions coming out of Iran. That's how that stale "Iran invented ......" joke got started.

 

yeah the definition of terrorism is only rational when it supports one's own selfish purposes.

So was the World Trade Centre a legitimate target ? After all it is the financial centre of the US and had CIA offices in it. If you're cool with 911 I'll accept your legitimizing of the A Bomb use

By your logic, maybe we should kill all Jews and Muslims to possibly save the lives of many more who may die in a Nuclear holocaust resulting from WW3. Or maybe just the Jews since there are less of them.

 

Not related, but nevertheless interesting:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057874.html

and then there is this

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292939271&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

and THIS has got to be talked about much more

Take it for what it is.

 

Anyone want to be a doctor at Shifa hospital? They should have an opening very soon.

 

But I bet they won't check your MCAT scores.

 

They'd hire Costanza if he wasn't jewish

 

i will

 

Well it won't matter, when all the Arab states and Iran get their hands on nuclear in about 10-15 years time. For IRAN probably 1-5 years.

 

Art Vandelay and it's latex salesman

 

[ame="http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&feature=related"]YouTube - UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza[/ame]


I guess this member of British parliament is just another crazy self hating Jew.

 

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292939041&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer

Hamas made "monstrous" and "inhumane" use of innocent children when it booby-trapped homes and schools inside the Gaza Strip, OC Gaza Division Brig.-Gen. Eyal Eisenberg said Thursday.



Palestinian families in Gaza, Eisenberg said, were often surprised to discover after Operation Cast Lead ended that that without their knowledge, Hamas had booby-trapped their homes and placed explosives beneath them.



"Troops encountered a difficult reality, entering homes and finding suicide bombers hiding in them and walking down streets and finding roadside bombs hidden inside television satellite dishes," he said.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU"]YouTube - Hamas Booby Trapped School and Zoo 11 Jan. 2009[/ame]

 

What difference does it make if they get nukes? Are they planning on committing suicide by nuking Israel, or are you suggesting they give nukes to Hamas so they can do it?

To put it another way, are you supporting stupid, irrational behavior, or promoting the idea of genocide?