Kristine Lilly the biggest American sportwomen ever

I assume folks around here realize I'm a big admirer of Ms Lilly's...

But...?

Zaharias, Babe Didrickson

Slaney, Mary Decker

Leslie, Lisa

Navratilova, Martina

Richardson, Dr Dorothy

 

if 2011 or 2012?

 

Paolo came back after a pregnancy? Wow!

I've obviously been a fan of Lilly's over the years and believe she never quite got her due relative to Hamm, Akers and - especially - Chastain and Foudy. But does she have any realistic chance of contributing to the cause on the field in WWC 2011? Pretty much everyone believed the 2008 Olympics (had she not been pregnant) was going to be her swan song, and there were a number who believed it should come sooner than that. I'm sure she still has a couple of good years left for the Breakers but - especially when you consider that new national-team talent will emerge from WPS - I cannot remotely think she will be one of our best 20 in 2 1/2 years despite her legendary fitness. She obviously deserves a couple of send-off matches - but is there any reason for her to be called up in the future otherwise?

 

Mitts is two years older than Wambach, no?

 

Remember, its not really a matter of her being one our best 20 in 2011; the roster will be something like our best 16 and the 4 most useful "role players" to supplant that group.

I think there's some-- maybe 10%-- chance she'll still be one of the best 16, and maybe another 20% chance she'd fit in the four.

Which means she's unlikely to belong on that team, but yet might; what to do? What to do?


Wait- I know!

Why don't we let her play until either she quits or we cut her because we're SURE she's toast? Wouldn't that be fair? Wouldn't that reduce the chances of a mistake by a whole bunch. Wouldn't that be simple?

Which doesn't mean she has to be in on every camp, every payday, at the expense of player development, doesn't mean she has to start when she is there-- it just means that we recognize that there's an opportunity cost to letting her go while she's still better than the next one, just as there is to keeping her when she's not.

 

So Kristine Lilly is a women?

 

Yes,The defencer can last longer .by now, Rampone and Markgarf is 30+,whether they can keep a high conidition until 2011 or 2012?Charlupne just on his golden age at that time.so US wnt must use more yonger defencers-Tobin Heather ,any other?

but for a striker ,body heathy is also very important,esp.the speed.For example,compared the 2007Cup with 2008Olympic,we can find Prinz is more slower and no ever stronger than before,some chance she did more well in the past years,but this time,she missed.

the striker of US,Abby is most important until 2012,Amy and Morgan or lourex or others should make more progresses for the team..

Lilly,if she can play in the first 11,there is a record,no one in the past and no one in future.. i think.

 

I think that approach led to some of the team's problems since 1999, with older players being allowed to stick around a lot longer than they should have.

 

I can agree with keeping players like Lilly around as long as there is an understanding that they aren't guaranteed or promised anything just because they've been around so long. And that is something I could see Pia changing where Greg and April seemed not to be willing or able to make those tough cuts or even tough benchings.

 

Unfortunately, other than maybe Fair and Chastain, I'm struggling to think of players who were put out to pasture to make room for the players that would be relevant in the next competitive cycle. Even Milbrett and Fotopoulos were brought back long after their sell-by dates.

I'm sure I'll get neg-repped and flamed, but Lilly was part of the 2003 problem. Yeah, she's a legend. Yeah, she's great. Yeah, I'd want her in a heartbeat to be on my WPS team. But I really don't think she deserves anything with regards to the USWNT. Let her prove in the WPS that she's international class.

If we hold on to the past and don't start building for 2011/12, then we're doomed to repeat the mistakes that cost us the 2003 and 2007 World Cups. Olympic gold medals are great consolation prizes - and it shows how quickly we can retool, but I want World Cup Trophies.

The WNT should be a meritocracy, not a sorority.

 

i abosolutly agree with you there. If Lilly is playing in the WPS & is playing out of her skin then she should be on the WNT but i don't think she should be there just because she is Kristen Lilly highest capped player in WNT history.
Same with Abby. She is a great player but she should play well for her club side first to merit a call up to national team.Prove her fitness & sharpness is back & play better than the other strikers eg A-Rod, Kai, Hanks, Hucles & any other emerging striker who is setting the WPS a light. Ala Micahel Owen in England or David Beckham.(Owen is a great goal scorer, Englands best but can't get into the national team because he is not doing it consistently for his club side or has been unlcuky with injuries or Beckham who is a vetran with experience but plays in a slower league MLS & does not start automatically for the national side because they are better players RIGHT NOW than him even though they are inexperienced.)

 

I agree; except that I would say that she deserves exactly the same sort of evaluation as any player. Can they help us now, and what is the liklihood that they will be able to help us in two or three years?

Old players may collapse due to age. Young players may suffer major injuries or just not develop. Players in their prime may take to drink or fail PED tests.

Coaches make informed guesses about all these possibilities. Some are better at it than others-- we try to hire them and not the others. Sometimes we fail.

I thought that Brandi had established that she was no longer a successful international player, and we knew she would get worse with age. We also know that Lil will get worse with age, but I think she's still playing at a high level, and with her history of health and fitness there's a reasonable chance she will age much better than Brandi. Not a guarantee, not even a good chance-- but as much chance at the moment that she will be able to help in 2011 as, say, Lauren Cheyney--25 or 30%.

Give 'em both some time and see what happens. If Lil develops a nagging hammy or loses another half step, that will open a place for someone else to try; if Cheyney never figures out how to get the ball to Wambach or O'Reilly or Kai or ARod or somebody at the right time, that will give that someone else the job-- but just giving Cheyney or the someone else the job because they are younger isn't breaking up the sorority-- its pledging a new class.

(BTW, Fair got extra chances too. I don't think anybody from that era got dropped absolutely cold except Brandi and maybe Whalen?)

 

The former U.S. international player that won the 2003 MLS MVP award never got called into the Men's National Team that season or after.

Why? Because at 40 years old, Preki was not going to help the Men's National team in Germany in 2006 - and playing him in friendlies took playing time away from other players who were being tried, or players who needed experience.

Unless Lilly is realistically going to be a major contributor in Germany in 2011, I'm not sure I'd call her in - even if she's playing at the top of the league.

There is plenty of "leadership" and "experience" on the WNT team. We need to get to the point that 50 caps is the sign of a major international career. There are players with 100 and 150 WNT caps who will only get into the National Soccer Hall of Fame if they buy a ticket.

Lilly, obviously, is not one of those. She is one of the best players ever. I can't imagine anyone anywhere ever coming remotely close to the career totals she has amassed. And I would say she definitely earned what she achieved.

 

If memory serves and I could be wrong but has the contract changed or is there a core of players that are on the payroll for a year? If so, then you will only see those players and a few fringe call ups. Whether Lilly will contribute in 2011 may be trumped by the fact USSF may think she can sell tickets today.

 

The residency contract has contingencies based on the absence/presence of a "professional womens league". I don't have a copy of the contract between USSF and the USWNTPA, but I believe that the stipends and residency go away this year with the presence of the WPS.

The residency and stipends are designed to guarantee a minimum pool of players that are available for USWNT duty - meaning they don't have to "take time off of work" to stay match fit.

With the WPS performing those functions - on a much larger pool of players, it works out well for everyone, as long as the USSF technical staff takes advantage of it.

Of course most of us that have been watching since the 90s fully expect to continue seeing a small core group players for marketing reasons - regardless of on the field results or merit.

 

So true Andy, so true.

 

I love Lilly, but she's not even the biggest American female soccer star ever, much less biggest female sportswoman.

For my money:

US Women > Lilly:
1) Michelle Akers
2) Mia Hamm
3) Joy Fawcett

Other US Sportswomen Greater:

1) Babe Didrikson Zaharais (Track (Hurdles, Javelin, High Jump), Golf, Softball)
2) Billy Jean King (Tennis, Union Rights/Women's Rights)
3) Jackie Joyner Kersee (Track: Heptathalon, Long Jump)
4) Martina Navratilova (Tennis)
5) Chris Evert (Tennis)
6) Wilma Rudolph (Track: 100, 200, 4x100)
7) Florence Griffith-Joyner (Track: 100, 200, 4x100, 4x400)
8) Janet Evans (Swimming)
9) Bonie Blair (Speedskating)
10) Peggy Flemming (Figure Skating)
11) Cheryl Miller (Basketball)

I could even name a host of others, I believe SI did a Top 100 Female athletes of the century list, though not all of them are American's, I think it does provide some needed perspective (and is a bit dated: I don't see people like Natalie Coughlin or Dara Torres).

 

Joy Fawcett was not better than Lilly.

 

Add these to the list:
Misty May
Kerrie Walsh


I also rate Fawcett at the same level as Lilly. Both were dominant at their positions. Comparing the two directly is impossible, too different, but both were invaluable to their team.