Alert: **** The Official Champions League Thread****

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

correction, like milan had with pirlo, now all we are left with is a sick note who gives a couple of hollywood passes and the rest of the match is invisble...must be doing a guti impression these last few months...

yeah, I agree though, there is a reason milan when on pomp, was able to dispatch of man united twice, liverpool once and 114 minutes of the other when all other italian teams struggled mightily against english opposition. who knows, though, one thing working for you guys is that mancini was a tactical noob, so ya'll are already much ahead already compared to the previous seasons.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

I expext Mourinho to set up shop, both legs, and hope for the best Come penalties

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Yeh true about him! But still, you had Seedorf and Kaka/Rui Costa, who are all excellent at keeping the ball.

Mancini was clueless in Europe, not only with us but with Lazio too. Mourinho at least has a good track record in the CL and knows something about English opposition. Also (fingers crossed) neither Materazzi or Burdisso will make an appearance this time.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

yeah, speak in the past tense with those players (except for kaka) as well. why is everyone sucking this year!!!

that is why i keep hedging my positions with "if fit," materazzi is an awful matchup against united's pacy attack and burdisso, well yeah he as well. if they have to play, game over and it could get ugly...

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

The only entertaining thing (for me) that would come out of watching Materazzi play is to see him try and wind up Rooney!

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

You've completely missed my point.

Terry/Carvalho under Mourinho will go down as one of the best CB pairings of the Premiership era. Cech back then was on pace to be an all-timer like Buffon at his best. Makelele as I said has redefined the role. You basically had players who would walk into almost every team in the world at CBx2, DM and GK. Add Essien and Lampard who both work hard and 2 fullbacks never attacking and comparisons to the current Inter side are not only wasted, they are laughable.

Maicon is the best RB in the world? Have you heard of this fella Bosingwa? You should take a look son.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Terry is a very overrated CB. I'm sure Samuel - Cordoba will be remembered similarly in Serie A anyway.

Cech was great, JC is very close to that level.

Makelele didn't redefine the role (unless you only started watching football 5 years ago).

Chelsea had Essien and Lampard who are hardworking, the same way Zanetti and Stankovic are hardworking.

Did i even say Maicon was THE best RB in the world?

It's clear he's one of the best anyway. You might prefer Bosingwa but that's more down to personal preference than any large difference in quality between the players.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

i was the one who said arguably the best rb in the world...and i stand by it, obviously some will disagree...son.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

well I think this post is full of shite statements... the only one you had right you took it back, because I do believe Maicon is a lot better than Bosingwa.

It is not that the Inter players don't have a chance of becoming as great as Makelele, Terry-Carvalho etc. But right now they are very far from doing so. And comparing Essien-Lampard to Zanetti-Stankovic is just plain stupid. Sorry for the harsh words mate, but I doubt you ever watched Chelsea when Mourinho was the gaffer, and you are making some bold statements on things you clearly don't know about.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Do you actually have a reasoned argument, instead of just saying "this is shite" or "this is stupid"?

That Chelsea side dominated the EPL, similar to how Inter is dominating in Serie A, but they didn't do it in Europe (again similar to Inter).

Why is comparing Essien and Lampard to Zanetti and Stankovic plain stupid? comparing players who play in similar positions is stupid now is it?

I watched plenty of Mourinho at Chelsea since i live in England. Your assumptions are completely wrong.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

And whoever disagrees is gonna be wrong. There shouldn't even be an argument, for the past 2 seasons Maicon has been by far the best fullback in the world, better than both Dani Alves and Ramos, and certainly better than Bosingwa. The only other fullbacks that have been playing at a remotely close level are Evra and Dani Alves, and he has been as sound as Evra in the back and even better than Alves offensively. I don't know where to get statistics, but if anybody knows it would be interesting to get Maicon's and compare them to other fullbacks', and I bet they would stand out by a fair margin.

You gotta be having a laugh... there's life outside the EPL "son".

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

I agree. How many times now has Bosingwa been skinned like a banana?

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

My bad on the RB, I knew it was in this thread somewhere.

As for Terry, I know he's overrated, however I said the pairing of JT and RC was what was strong and I'll stand by that. They complemented each other and the unit was special.

As for comparing Inter to Chelsea at that time, again. It is laughable. In 04/05 Chelsea conceded 15 goals all year long. It was nearly impossible to score on them. Inter's had some good numbers but nothing outlandish. Hell Juve are right with them in terms of defensive record. I also think its a bit convenient that Inter's dominance has come exactly during a serious down turn in the fortunes of the Serie A. Dominating that league now is not the same as dominating it a few years ago.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Maicon gets beat all the time and he's out of position more than Bosingwa. The difference is, he's playing in an inferior league and was branded as a wingback from his days at Monaco so less is expected of him defensively. Maicon might as well be a winger. Everyone knows the dirty work is done by Zanetti.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Samuel - Cordoba havn't been fit all season, plus Chivu is still to come back.

Just as Terry and Carvalho complemented eachother, so do Samuel and Cordoba. In Cordoba you have someone who is a brilliant man marker and fairly quick while Samuel is much more physical and great in the air.

Like i said, Inter have had too many injury problems to make a comparison yet. Players like Materazzi and Burdisso will bring it down.

The top teams have weakened slightly, but the mid table teams are closer. Even a team like Siena were unbeaten at home before today and hadn't conceded a goal from open play at home.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

I agree with you here. Maicon's marking is a bit sloppy, but i don't think he gets beaten one on one "all the time" as you said. Bosingaw doesn't get beaten so easily, but again his marking and positioning is sloppy at times, but most top fullbacks have defensive defiencies.

Having Zanetti infront of him helps get the best out of Maicon. The same way Cafu had Gattuso ahead of him.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Fair statement, although half the time Zanetti is behind him

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

I can't even take this seriously. Chelsea's spine is arguably the best of this decade - at that time

Matches aren't played on paper, and this is the common error seen on BS. On paper, Arsenal don't beat any big team because they have one, maybe two players who are universally regarded, in practice, their game, when on, is a match for any big team in Europe.

Arsenal's style is perfectly set up to match with Roma.

What relevance does it have that they have the best defence in Serie A? You're not about to face anything close to a Serie A style of play.

On what factual evidence do Inter have one of the best defences in Europe? You get one of those by proving it to be so..

Again, basing things of domestic form is not applicable. You're notoriously unstable in Europe and have been less than convincing defensively to date this season also.

What Chelsea are now, isn't of relevance to what Chelsea were then.

This is the thing that I see permeating these discussions:

1. Inter's midfield is 'better' than Manchester United's.

2. They are devoid of creativity and thus cannot attack effectively..

well in the first place, the midfield is far from a formality, on what gorunds is Inter's midfield better than United's? Names on paper are meaningless, what performances have Inter's collective shown in Europe over United's midfield performance level to suggest they are better?

And secondly, creativity and effectiveness aren't mutually exclusive. A team devoid of creativity but who press high and well (which is a form of attack) will lend themselves to turnovers, which in turn lead to goal-scoring opportunities.

This is the way in which Inter should approach the game... if they try to defend deep against us or play a counter-attacking game, I think it will backfire tremendously, you are not better at either of these things than the team you will face, and we are very comfortable in a counter-counter game as that's bread and butter in the league we play in, and we're comfortable with it in Europe after years of getting it wrong and eventually learning to get it right.

Mourinho's Chelsea were perfectly set up to play in the way you're suggesting Inter can, they had lots of pace on the break.. as much as us, even, which is also a factor in how deep one team has to sit to counter-act the strategy of another. We'll be absolutely delighted if you try to match us for pace in any area of the pitch, not so with that Chelsea side.


You want the likes of Adriano and Ibrahimovic on the ball as much as possible..forcing us to retreat and start the double-teams, in this way, we cannot break often and impose our natural game. We're much more comfortable playing in the oppo half than our own and would definitely prefer the former.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

this chelsea discussion is a sidetrack, I didn't say they were as good as chelsea under mourinho...

also, I don't remember too many people saying or implying that inter's midfield is better than united...in fact I thought the opposite was implied, I (and others unless i misinterpreted them) seemed to make clear that inter's midfield is flawed for europe, how was the assumption of united having an inferior midfield permeating the thread? if anything the polar opposite was permeating the thread (by friends, foe and neutral alike), unless i am mistaken, but if i ever gave the impression that the inter midfield was superior, i assure you that is was a misunderstanding

as far as the back 5 being one of the best in europe...yes, it is true that this current back 5 has never proven it together on the european stage, but then again the only time they were together in europe was last season, and all but maicon and cesar were hurt for the ko leg and again so far this season in the group stage, so they haven't had a chance to prove one way or other. so yes, i admit I am making conjecture, but so far that is all we have to go on, hence it seems fair to use that to make a guess, no?

tactically, i understand what you are saying, i just think the opposite, if they press too far up, then too not leave gaps between midfield and defense they will have to play a high line and be aggressive, and hence even though it will be tougher for you guys to break out, when you do off of midfield turnovers, the space to run at (and behind them) will be immense, this isn't a barca style possession midfield of today or as mentioned italian style of milan a few years back and juve at end of '90s, I just think that would be suicide...you seem to think it would be suicide to sit back...I guess then they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.. .

I would be shocked if they played high aggressive pressing football, but you might be right

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

That's really a gross over exageration. At the time, they were no better than for example Juve's spine of Buffon, Cannavaro, Thuram and Emerson. Both teams achieved as much aswell.

Not every team in Serie A has the same style of player. There's lots of contrasting styles of play. If we're going on how Man Utd played in Europe last season, there's plenty of similar sides in Serie A to that (though obviously devoid of the same amount of quality).

I don't know why you're so dismissive of domestic form. It's the best way of judging a teams form to date, unless you can think of an alternative?

So having the best defence in Serie A = less than convincing?

Mancio's Inter were perhaps untstable in Europe. You can't judge Mourinho's Inter in Europe yet.

I never even implicitly said that Inter's midfield is better than Manchester United. In fact, i think the opposite is true, so i'm not quite sure what you're arguing here?

Not sure that turnovers lead to goal scoring opportunites so easily. You need some element of creativity for that which is most likely going to come from Ibra, but my guess is that he will be heavily marked.

Fair enough, but in the last couple of seasons ive seen Roma take the initiative but Man Utd scoring on the counter attack. I think we'll be vary wary of that.

Agree to some extent, though i hope we don't just play hoofball to those guys.

You guys seemed pretty comfortable playing in your own half against Barca last season.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

More than one person has said the midfield 'battle' is practically a doozy in Inter's favour. I have no idea on what planet such a thing was decided, but there, generally, is the consensus.

I'm not sure you're giving consideration to how these two teams play their football, personally. What United want, and what United should be prevented from doing is paramount, imo. If any team really wants to get on our nerves, they have to press and take the game on... we really don't like that, anything else that's thrown at us, we are much more comfortable with.

Inter's midfield doesn't need to move in unison and/or break rank as a set, which is very Italian which is what you're used to given your team and how they achieve success when they get it. I think a bit of non-uniformity would work wonders in EPL vs Serie A match-ups for the Italian sides. Doing things 'on the hop' and as the situation demands rather than per tactical instruction would unhinge most English styles of play.. take some risks.. be a bit daring.. further up the field.. Manchester United do not like that and most sides who beat us or have favourable results against us achieve them in a similar fashion.

Do you really favour Inter in a tight, cagey game? they concede first with that mindset already in place and it's more likely they concede another one as they try to open up and adjust to the new conditions - we love nothing more than hitting sides in such a mindset for as much as we can on the counter, and I don't think there's a better side in the world for those kind of counters than us... dangerous game for Inter, that, if you ask me.

To the last part - if they press high up, successfully they will hem us in and shorten our outlet points to one or two men and not the 4 or 5 it would be otherwise.. you want to rush Scholes and Carrick down and try and get Fletcher or Anderson to be the ones with space to use the ball, as they aren't going to use it well (in Fletcher's case) or effectively (in Anderson's) with such frequency.. you sit off and you give Scholes and Carrick a playing field they thrive in and have proven over time that they are effective with.

I'm not sure I see either way as suicide, but I definitely think one method plays into our hands and the other doesn't.

I know Milan's midfield was better and more proven, but the principle of harrassing our players into mistakes and capitilizing on them repeatedly, is a clear formula against us, no matter if it's a Gattuso doing that or a lesser able player.

We don't have the all-in-one midfielder to act as a counter-balance to that kind of play, and it shows, time and time again.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Spot on about the midfield. I don't know where he got that idea from!

They've never proven it on the european stage because they barely played together on the european stage. 2 seasons ago, Cambiasso got injured against Valencia when we were in control, and we know what happened after that. Last season, Samuel was tore his knee ligaments at christmas while Cordoba did the same in the Liverpool game. Again, we know what happened after that. In the group stage this season, Samuel was not registered and Mourinho was still messing about with the formation. It has no relevance anyway.

High line is not a good idea of Chivu and/or Samuel play. It's not really our style to go with a high line so i doubt Mourinho would do something as daring as that against Man Utd of all teams.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

You're missing the point - both sides are far and away from what the current Inter are for this style of play.

We don't have a uniform style of play.. we don't even have a settled xi, much to the horror of many of us come match time. We completely threw a curve ball at Barca, for example, and seriously upset their gameplan by not giving them space.. I though we showed adaptability to nurmerous styles of play, which is something Inter will have to do this season if they want to make any inroads on opposing sides with pedigree in the tournament.

Domestic form, is simply that - domestic. You won't meet styles of play that are similar to what you get in your domestic league, you won't find the same mentality and you won't have the same rub of the green with refs and their decisions. CL form is the best way to consider CL defenses...

We had the best defence in both Europe and England, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many who would lump the two achievements together as one. Even Rio said playing in the CL is 'a whole other ball game to the league' and requires more concentration to small details.

Having the best defence in Serie A means you have the best defence in Serie A... not much else.

You haven't looked convincing in this tournament to date, why is that not up for consideration?

In the are of the game referred to (not creativity) it's clearly implied Inter have the upperhand. I don't see where this is true, we've shown how dogged we can be in the CL just this year.

Liverpool and Chelsea (of old) were not creative, but they press and press hard, amongst that, the ball is going to drop favourably for the side doing the pressing more often than not and eventually pressure bursts pipes.. or leads to goals, in this instance.

But sitting back literally plays into our hands. With all that movement, all those long-range strikers of the ball, and a number of players who can pick a pass...as well as inviting Evra up on the overlap, there's trouble to be had. If you allow us to press you in, you're going to have a tough time breaking. You're not better than us at counter-counter football, it'd be a dangerous ploy, imo and open the game up unintentionally for us, even if it appeared you were in control.

Balls down the left channel between the space left by Evra are inlets to our defence... if Brown doesn't play RB, the same is so on the other flank. The whole plan is to unsettle and pull Rio out of his comfort zone...

Barca do not have the physically imposing players who turn 'nothing' into something - they are a sude who make chances in a consistent fashion using the same methodology, with Rijkaard there, the tactical part of their game had no legs at all. Ibrahimovic, Adriano, Drogba... these are the kind of strikers who can turn games in an instant from something as basic as an aerial take-down, shield of the ball and shot. Barca can't do such things.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

It doesn't require a high line.. Scaredy cat calcio football

Live a little.

 

Re: **** The Official Champions League Round of 16 Draw****

Mourinho begins the battle of words by saying Ibrahimovic is really the best player in the world, not Ronaldo.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=604536&sec=europe&cc=5901