I can't believe we're averaging less than 1.5 goals per game, and I can't believe we're only at a +1 on the season. I also can't believe that someone actually thought we had the best depth at forward. I can't believe what seemed like it was headed to such a promising season is now floundering deeply. I can't believe we need a win against RSL just to somewhat get back on our feet. Where the hell did this season go wrong?
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake If you ask me, when we deliberately put the engine in idle against Joe Public.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake That is the question we are all asking, I think rkane might be right pointing to the Joe Public series. It's hard to say, though. We did lose to Chicago in heartbreaking fashion right before the CCL drubbing as well. Superliga definitely seems to be a turning point for one reason or another, but what happened really? Was it the return of Twellman? Maybe, probably not. Possibly the loss of 3 forwards for about a month? I'm sure this has something to do with it. Just bad luck? I don't believe that. There's no question, though. This team is a different team than the one that we saw in April through July.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake With the exception of Twellman and Badilla (two players that SHOULD make the team better), it's the same team. It's just playing like shit now.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake With Badilla came the 4-4-2 which is a big part of the problem.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake The 4-4-2 was here before Badilla, and it didn't work then either. We're two draws and a loss with Badilla. He had nothing to do with the other nine ************ games.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake Last year's team was built around getting Noonan and especially Twellman the ball. This year with Noonan gone and Twellman out for most of the first half the team had to change tactics. Now that Twellman is back, the team may be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake exactly and with Badilla came Nicols insistance on play 4 defenders. He has the power to go back to the 3-5-2. I think Nicol was wrong in taking him off against the Crew. I thought Jeff was having an off game, Badilla probably should have moved in the midfield with Shalrie or to the left and take heaps off
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake I have always thought New England was more creative when Twellman was not on the field. They were forced to look for other options and move the ball more. With Twellman, they are more direct and predictable
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake I think the problems have to do with the congestion of games in August and into early September. During this time other teams were resting up, trying out prospects (more of a belief than a supportable assertion), reviewing what worked and didn't work in the first half of the season, and working on fixing their weaknesses and improving their strengths. The Revs, meanwhile, were busy playing twice a week, racking up frequent flier miles and injuries, and by the end were playing on empty. It looks like their priority was "win first, worry about everything thing else later." And that's pretty much exactly what they did until they ran out of gas. The efforts in the Open Cup and CCL were a reflection of prioritizing the MLS Cup first. I think that's more of the issue than Twellman and Badilla playing or the 4-4-2 right now or whatever. On a side note, here is a taste of positivity which I'm sure will piss people off (not my intention though): The 9/11 game at home against Chivas was played on the most rest since beating Atlante in the SuperLiga (7/30). Revs won that 4-0. The next game was a 1-1 tie in Colorado. That was a decent result, measured by expectations (consider the previous games there, Colorado's home record, and the Rev's away record), not by desired outcome. The third game after that break was this weekends close 1-0 loss at home to the #1 team in the league, the Crew. Unlike the economy, I think the bottom is behind us.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake This streak that we're on started with the Fire game. Prior to the Fire game, we'd played one game in the prior 9 days. Prior to that game (Houston, SuperLiga final), the team as a whole, hadn't played a game for 10 days. Due to the hurricane, Houston's missed two games that were scheduled for them. Since the All-Star Game, the Revs have played 14 games, with 3 wins. Houston will have to make up those two games, but if they had played them, they would have played 13 in that same stretch. They've lost one time so far. Even had they lost those two games, they would still have won 6 games. So to clarify ... if the storm had not hit ... they would have played 13 games, and at the max lost 3. We've lost 7.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake Moving this to a new thread to keep the game thread on-topic. Look it up ... I don't know. I do know that they have had a player or two also go to China. I also know they had Clark, DeRo, Onstad, Ching (not sure if anyone else) miss games due to qualifiers. And just to stop the next excuse, since the All-Star game, Houston's travelled to New England, DC, Toronto, San Ho and Panama. They'll be playing in Mexico tomorrow, before playing in Colorado this weekend. Oh, and one more thing. I'm still shocked at how much Revs have fans used the schedule as an excuse this year. Just an FYI ... last year, Houston played in the Champions League, the SuperLiga and still won the Cup. This year, Houston's played in the spring version of the Champions League, the Pan-Pacific Championship, the SuperLiga, the USOC (not making it as far as we did obviously), are a little better shot to win the Shield than us (even though it's not realistic) and still very much alive for the Cup. I looked this up a week or two ago and don't feel like doing it again ... Houston has played either the same amount of games or just as many as we have this year (if not one or two more). I'm just guessing that they've lost players due to injuries in that time frame.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake As has been stated many times, the Revs were playing 4 in the back long before Badilla arrived. In fact, the Revs were playing 4 in the back when they won Superliga 2008. I don't think the formation alone is to be blamed for the turn in form. I really think it's a both/and situation. It's the installation of Twellman, which changes tactics, the obvious injury problems, which further adjusts tactics and also requires player rotations and upsets chemistry. Later, in September, the addition of Badilla and return of Parky from China created some unfamiliarity and more adjusting. My point is, I think it's just been a perfect storm of reasons that have lead to the change in fortunes. One silver lining is I think all of the above problems are fixable.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake I think the goal production when it was good relied on a could things... It was either Noonan (Boy, I'm so pissed at him right now) got Twellman the ball or guys like Khrazy Khano, and Adam -THE FREAK- Christman charged with ball forward into the final 3rd. THe other night we could have used Khrazy K. Maybe Steve has to find a way to make what he has click, on short notice. It seems Twellman is uncomfortable with Mansally and Naissy, has been all season. I'm hoping a fit Dube and Krazy K can make the difference, but remember, they still have Schleeto and Chicago still has Butt-ugly Blanco and Barry Manilow Jr. (Rolfe). We are in trouble.
I don't want to type up a whole theory, but I would like to throw in my two cents on a couple of points. 1. It hasn't gone "wrong" because it was never entirely right. Even in the first half of the season, when the Rev's were compiling an impressive record, we never truly looked dominant in individual games. Lot's of one goal margins and almost never bagged more than two goals in a game. In addition, a lot of the goals we were getting from folks like Dube and Cristman were not exactly works of art. They were gritty, they were admirable, they were often decisive, but they were usually as much the product of circumstance and defensive error as they were of sound construction and good football. Additionally, our defense was never as tight as it should have been. Reis was heroic in the first half of the season. In truth, we were never that far from this recent run of mediocrity. 2. The much debated 4-4-2. It's not a bad formation, and I think we have the personnel to play it, but it's clear that the team and coaching staff have not yet figured out how to execute it. At this point it should most likely be left to next year. Our adherence to it does make me wonder just a little bit more about Parkhurst's future.
It seemed to me like there was a real winning spirit about this team at the start of the season, they were really trying to win MLS Cup. Once we won Superliga, which seemed to be a target for the team as was stated in the pre-season Meet The Coach event, it seems like that spirit diminished. I think the team could care less given that they said they were intentionally playing reserves in the Open Cup, and I'm going to assume the CCL was thrown as Nicol said it involved too much travel. Even though we had played a few games more, there was a point where our lead over Columbus was about as big as theirs is now. The fact that we've blown that is shocking. Hopefully the momentum shifts, but it's not like we're trying and getting unlucky, the effort just hasn't been there.
Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake i have been saying this since 2004. and he needs to drop the attitude. stop yelling at people because they didnt give you a perfect pass to fcuk up. play for the team, everybody else is (if not, it looks that way at least). variety is the spice of life... shake things up!
Can a football formation be inherently bad? I agree, there's nothing particularly "wrong" with the 4-4-2 but just like sushi and the music of The Fall, it ain't fer everybody. And it is not, right now, for the Revs. As far as what's gone wrong...and this might get things thrown at me, but I think we used up all the gas in the tank winning SuperLiga. The effort, the drive, and dare I say it the passion shown during that run hasn't been evident since. The injury list has again been long, replacements not forthcoming (there are no better midfielders in the world better than Wells Thompson, they looked), and those ever-elusive breaks haven't broken our way like they have in the past. Our Great British Duo has taken the thin gruel they're handed every year and done, as they saw it, the best they could with it. Do I think we should pack it in and wait 'til next year? No, stranger things have happened (Khano's breakout against NY in 2005 springs to mind), and hope (like sarcasm) springs eternal in this region.
They were pretty damn good in the opener, at least the way I remember it. Maybe Monty should dredge up that post game thread, I seem to recall us all being pretty optimistic.
This only partially answers the question, but I think Jeff Larent. really sucks. I know Nicol likes him, but what does he contribute? He's slow and he's NOT a good passer. In the 352 his weaknesses are somewhat masked but in the 442 he is exposed (and Phelan is even worse). He's great value for his salary but he should be about the 15th player we put out there unless Joseph is out If Shalrie is really one of the best players in the league (and I think he is) and if we're going to play a 442 without having the outside backs attack, we should certainly be able to play a diamond with Shalrie and Ralston in the middle
This is closest to where I am. We were squeezing out a lot of results, but were rarely dominant. When teams learned how to play against the likes of Nyassi, Dube, and Mansally, we lost part of the edge we had early on. It's up to the Revs' younger players to readjust and come up with something else. Beyond that, none of the new signings are making much of an impact right now. We're basically a watered-down version of the 2007 Revs at the moment.
Weaknesses being masked is one way to say it, another way is to say that it's "playing to the strengths of your team." If the personnel play well in a 3-5-2, and they don't play well in a 4-4-2, then the appropriate tactical response to our current predicament should be obvious to the coach of this team. If it isn't, then maybe we need a new coach.
I think there are many factors as to why things went wrong. In my opinion I think our biggest issue has been depth. We have no quality depth in the team. We have bodies but nobody of good quality. If you break down the bench there is nobody who can come in make an impact game in and game out. Our weakest area is the left middle. Smith- Although he has his moments he drives me nuts. He’s the one of the tallest in the league in being so I expect him jump and win balls. Thompson- Love the effort but it’s all wasted, he holds the ball for way to long and just looses it, give him the ball and all you need to do is put some pressure on him and he’ll lose it Castro- Has been a disappointment but I’m giving him a break for the year. Only because of all the changes he’s had to adjust to. Think about it, he moves to a country where he does not know the language, does not know the culture and is not used to all the traveling. It takes a mental and physical toll on you. Look at Scheletto in his first year, he wasn’t that impressive in his first year, but his second year he’s been a monster. I’m not saying Castro is going to get the same results next year but I believe he’ll improve and be the full time starter. Then adding all the injuries through out the season they never had a consistent team, loosing all the rhythm they had from the beginning of the year when they had no injuries. These are some of the issues I feel the team has and I’m sure there is a lot more.
I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with a 4-4-2 formation, in fact the Revs have used it effectively in the past. The problem is the players they have don't lend themselves well to this formation. When the Revs play 4-4-2, they are effectively playing with 5 defenders leaving only 4 players to lead a predictable offense. A 4-4-2 with a different mix, including an effective attacking mid could be a different story.