Does Rafa know what he is doing?

Discussion in 'Premier League' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. Jono-NZ

    Jono-NZ New Member

    Aug 14, 2007
    New Zealand
    Does Rafa know what he is doing?

    Yes
     
  2. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    What stupid choices during a game are you speaking of?

    You dont seem very knowledgable on coaching and management with comments like that.
     
  3. Bluepaul

    Bluepaul New Member

    Jul 27, 2008
    Preston
    You know as well as i do the bloke makes stupid choices in terms of substitutions coupled with the fact the man has the most ridiculous rotational policy in football. To say to someone you dont know much about coaching and management is abit daft mate as i very much doubt anyone on here knows a great deal about how it actually is but if givin the funds he has had and the time he has done a poor job.
    Im sure you lads would love to lift the title but i can never see that happening for you with rafa at the healm, He makes poor choices plus brings in poor players who has he signed that has significantly improved you team Torres thats about it really i know babel and so on are not poor players but they are not world beaters £81,596,000 spent and no title it speaks volumes
     
  4. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I can't believe this thread has made it to 11 pages. I keep passing by and noticing its continued existence. It's like watching the spazzy kid at school trying to get the straw into his juice carton. You desperately want to intervene because it's getting embarrassing, but you don't because you don't want to get covered in juice and the other kids might think you're mates with him.
     
  5. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Keane has developed into a very good player, although I was surprised that Benitez paid 19 million for him. I assume this is with an immediate title bid in mind, but I'm not convinced Keane represents a player that could achieve that, especially as I'm not seeing how he and Torres would link up well. Keane works hard and will score goals given suitable chances, but he's not a clinical finisher per se and he is not a creative player, he does need to be alongside a forward who will provide for him and that isn't really Torres.

    Barry doesn't seem like a particularly inspirational move either if that is followed through. Does seem like Benitez is going to keep falling short of the Prem title.
     
  6. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    You seem like another person who has been influenced by the british media and believes everything they say.

    In the 2006/07 season Rafa, Mourinho and Ferguson made 119, 118 and 118 rotations between them...give or take a few.

    This season Rafa made about 9 more rotations than Ferguson over the whole season.

    What makes his rotation stupid? Are you talking about when he rested Torres for 2 games despite him being injured in one game and in another he needed a rest from teams like Reading and players like John Terry hacking him. Or do you mean the FA Cup games where he changed most of the team yet 9 out of the 11 players playing were current international players.

    There are many people on here who are coaches of teams in their respective Countries/Cities. Its a lot harder than what you seem to think it is.

    The times when Rafa has been able to spend over 10 million pounds he has brought in Torres, Keane, Mascherano, Xabi Alonso, Babel, Kuyt and most likely Barry. All these signings seem to be good choices.

    Babel is certainly not a world beater yet...but hes 21 years old, moved to England just 12 months ago and is part of a team. He doesnt have to be the star when we have Torres, Keane and Gerrard in attack. Dossena isnt a world beater either but he is a very good LB in defence and in attack and will play an important part in the team.

    Hes also bought Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Dossena, Lucas etc. And yes he has also bought players like Bellamy, Gonzalez, Pennant etc but you every manager has made mistakes with transfers, its nothing new. The current Liverpool squad including the reserves and academy sides are almost all Rafa signings. We have some of the best young talents in our squad but you and many others seem to disregard Rafa's work in transforming Liverpool and ensuring that we have a strong future. 4 years ago the reserve and academy sides were not filled with so many obviously talented young players. When Rafa took over there was no chance that three 19 year olds, a 17 year old and two more under 21 would all be pushing for 1st team places and making the biggest impression during pre-season.

    Also, where did you get that figure of £81,596,000 from? It would have to be a joke if you are including Keane, Dossena, Ngog and Cavalieri in that even if they havent played a game for us yet. You cant blame players who havent played a single game yet for us not winning the title. Surely you arent that ignorant.
     
  7. Bluepaul

    Bluepaul New Member

    Jul 27, 2008
    Preston
    The quoted figure is from last season on a financial football site so it doesnt include keane and co.
    I dont know where your getting this childish attitude from mate but its really not needed surely im not that arogant where do you get that from i dont know you from adam mate so saying things like that to ppl after two posts is aibt daft tbh, plus you must be abit of a choclate teapot to suggest such a thing i would'nt slate any player that hasnt played a game yet or had his shot. As for the coaching and management point are you really that stupid to twist and interprate what i said into what your implying? All i said is that am sure "most" ppl on here dont know that side of the game ther is a big difference in sunday league or semi pro football to the EPL mate so that point you so stupidly raised is void.
    Anyway back to the point you cant get away from the fact he has had enough time and money at his disposal to not have lifted the title but that is just my opinion as you have yours mate can i just ask you this then hand on heart how long do you think rafa will be at LFC for and in that time are you confident he can bring you the title?
     
  8. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London

    I pointed out in a previous thread the financial differences between Chelsea and Liverpool since Roman took over Chelsea.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15180031#post15180031


    Here is plainly shows that Liverpool have been outspent on net transfers since 2004 by Chelsea by a margin of ~ £280 million (upto and including Bosingwa) factor in wages and this difference is ~£417 million. Your claim that Rafa has spent enough to win him the title is stupid when considering he is competing with the likes of Chelsea who have spent significantly more. Rafa has a chance of the title but should not be considered the favourite considering his competition. In much the same way that Moyes is not universally damned for failing to break into the top 3, as it is recognised that Everton have a financial shortfall compared with the top 4. If Everton do manage to achieve this then well done to them but if they fail to do so then this is hardly something they should be castigated for. Similar logic should be applied with Liverpool when measuring their ability to compete against more expensive squads. It should be noted that but for Rafa then Chelsea would have been in 3 CL Finals in 4 years and 2 FA Cup Finals in 4 years.
     
  9. Bluepaul

    Bluepaul New Member

    Jul 27, 2008
    Preston
    i understand mate by no means are my posts a dig at LFC altough im a Blue doesnt mean i dont appreciate what your up against with the likes of Chelsea but if you consider LFC spent more the Manure over the past few seasons plus miles more then Arsenal ever have and both teams have stronger squads so the only comparable team is Chelsea in terms of spends.
     
  10. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

    Jan 12, 2007
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    [​IMG]
     
  11. mariebannerlfc

    mariebannerlfc New Member

    Nov 27, 2006
    He'll be okay. I know Barry's an average player but linking him with Gerrard will be brilliant.
     
  12. LiverpoolFan1970

    LiverpoolFan1970 New Member

    May 23, 2007
    El Paso, Tx. USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Hey Bluenose, worry about your own club! You all have enough trouble right now and there is no need for you to stick your nose into other clubs forums.

    As for the "funds he has had" give me a break. Once again you show you don't know what you are talking about. ManUre spent upwards of 80 million quid last summer and WEREN'T forced to sell players to cover expenses. Chelsea regularly spend that sum and don't sell players.

    Torres is the only one who improved the club? Ever hear of Pepe Reina? He is one of the best in England. How about Mascherano? How about Skrtel? How about Agger? Alonso? Lucas? Insua? Plessis? Nemeth, Pacheco? Yes, the last few haven't broke into the first team on a regular basis yet, but they will.

    Like I said earlier, worry about your club and the fact you can't buy a single player this summer. You'll be lucky not to be in a relegation battle this season.

    YNWA
     
  13. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

    Jan 12, 2007
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'd check that, if I were you.

    Hargreaves - £17m
    Nani - £8m
    Anderson - £10m
    Tevez - £2m a year loan deal.


    The deals for Nani and Anderson were heavily structured and the eventual fee's we pay for them are dependant on how many international caps they win, how much the club wins and how many games the play for us.

    Tevez was not bought but loaned on a 2 season agreement. Even Hargreaves wasn't paid up front The net spend was around the £25m-£30m mark I believe.
     
  14. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

    May 4, 2003
    Sydney, Australia
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15284780&postcount=77

    Cheers... a lot of Liverpool fans were saying the same when we sold van Nistelrooy and only bought Carrick in return. A lot said the same when we got off to a slow start last season. A lot will say the same if we don't win our first 10 matches this year. But - and this is the great bit because we all know it - number 18 is banging on the door. It might be this season, it might not... but #18 is coming.
     
  15. Bluepaul

    Bluepaul New Member

    Jul 27, 2008
    Preston
    haha what a tit you are mate i didnt come on here to bash LFC u muppet its a question about your manager and i gave my opinion which tbh has ******** all to do with you!
    In terms of money spent you dont seem to know your club very well

    Benítez's net spend as £87.7m

    Ferguson's net spend as £79.2m

    so your comments are pretty stupid and i suggest you research your OWN club before you spout your mouth off trying to act clever end up looking a right tit!
    What about Mascherano? he hasnt shown or done anything what so ever to suggest he's anywhere near class yeah he might be good but world class please :rolleyes: All the other names you have mentioned are apart from alonso and reina are unknown unproven average players.
    You dont need to tell me about Everton mate you just worry about yourself and get to know your club abit better so next time you dont embarass your clubs forums.
    Like i said do your research and you will find that your club isnt in a healthy position either mate in fact its in a much worse state behind the scenes then ours 350 mill in debt and two investors that will sell in the near future and leave your club ********ed over so again get a brain and read up first u cock!

    Sorry to any other LFC fans my comments arnt against your club but this idiot that calls himself a football fan
     
  16. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I hope your not being serious when you say that Agger, Skrtel, Mascherano and Lucas havent done anything at Liverpool. Otherwise you are one sheltered person.
     
  17. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

    Jan 12, 2007
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I hope you're not being serious when you suggest that they have? What exactly have they "done" since signing?


    Mascherano is the only player on that list that has consistantly proved his class and even then his contribution to anything other than defence is minimal. Infact, Makelele apart, I've rarely seen a player contribute so little in attack.

    Skrtel looks like a solid player but we'll see more of him this year. He's only been at Liverpool since January and I think we'll see the best of him this year. Dito for Agger. Classy player but he spent most of last year out injured and the year before that was rotated with Hyppia and Carragher so he didn't play that much. The odds would suggest that he's likely to be a great player but you can't class him as a world beater yet.

    Lucas is a joke. Brazilian under 21 captain and one of the most talented players to come out of Brazil, or so we're told, but we've barely seen sight nor sound of him save a couple of 5 minute cameo's in the league and a handful of league cup appearances. The lad has acheived nothing since moving. This year Rafa needs to give him time on the pitch and less on the bench.
     
  18. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Another ignorant troll on these boards...i thought we'd gotten rid of all those who commentate on games and players that they have never seen on games that they never go to. So just by reading the news you think you know something about Liverpool?

    You'd have to be stupid to think that if a player plays his team role to a consistently high standard in every game that he is a poor player. I dont even need to back Masch up...if you've ever seen him play you will know that he is arguably the best defensive central midfielder in the game. Who do you think was mainly responsible for us beating Inter over 2 legs in the CL?

    At least your using some common sense here rather than just slagging off other players like Masch and Lucas. Skrtel isnt a world beater yet but Agger has only been beaten by his opponent in one game in his whole Liverpool career. This shows that he is a world beater and consistently plays at a high standard.

    So 32 appearances doesnt do it for you does it?

    How about starting both legs of the CL tie vs Inter...surely that shows the belief and trust that Rafa and everyone has in him? He couldnt even speak a word of English when he first got to Liverpool and admitted himself that it took time to settle into a new life on the other side of the world. This isnt a game and you cant just throw new players into the team as soon as they arrive without some settling in period.
     
  19. Dear_Claudio

    Dear_Claudio Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Buffalo, New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    What are you guys talking about, those players are all class. 4th place class.
     
  20. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

    Jan 12, 2007
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    How many starts? 6? 7 maybe? And if they're league cup games then again their relevance is diminished yet further. Anyone who would,argue that Lucas Leiva looks like a woropld betaer already is cleary seeing what they want to see, rather than what is staring them in the face. Yes he played well against Inter, very good. Two games and a host of bench appearances. That Liverpool fans bang on about "Samba feet" is a joke, he has done nothing truly out standing in his time with the club.

    It's nothing to do with knowing Liverpool. I know Liverpool quite well, it's not so far away that a night out there is on the cards every month or so. I know plenty of freinds who support the club.

    What I know about the team is something else. I know that Daniel Agger is a decent player but he's been out for a whole season and the season before that he looked good, but not world class. To brand him world class after one season would be doing a dis-service to those genuinely world class players who have worked hard over a number of years to put themselves in this bracket. Don't label him as world class, to do so would be lazy and an exageration in the extreme. Skrtel too, looks to be a good player but to mark him out as a world beater is a bit OTT. Nani tied him up in knots last year before dispatching our 3rd of that particular game. A world beater he did not look then. I expect him to improve this year but you don't KNOW that he will. We just make that assumption.

    I'm sorry, show me where I said Mascherano was a poor player?...... Yeah, that's what I thought. :rolleyes:

    What I said was that he contribuites nothing in attack, which is nothing if not a harsh yet honest assessment of his game. The boy is great at what he does but it's what he doesn't do that intrigues me.
     
  21. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    Lucas made 12 Prem starts last season, including at big arenas like Newcastle, Chelsea and Arsenal. Liverpool did not lose any of these Prem games that Lucas started. Lucas played in 18 Prem matches in total and got 5 assists. He also scored 1 goal in the FA Cup. He made 6 appearances in the CL and 32 appearances in total. Lucas has successfully demonstrated that he has made the adaptation to English football coming directly from South America, in a way that players like Forlan and Kleberson were unable to do. He should continue to improve given his precociousness and age.
     
  22. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    London
    As for Skrtel, he reminds me of Rio Ferdinand. He is very tall, but also extremely quick and composed on the ball. Skrtel has played very well for half a season and has certainly adapted to England a lot quicker than Vidic did. Despite not being familiar with him prior to his arrival in England, Skrtel has really impressed me.
     
  23. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

    Jan 12, 2007
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Skrtel impresses me too. Liverpool have certainlygot a strong spine in their side now with the likes of Mascherano, Gerrard, Alonso, Carragher, Agger, Keane, Torres and Skrtel there.......
     
  24. canadianscraggledog

    canadianscraggledog New Member

    Jun 26, 2005
    London, Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Yes he does. I imagine the gap between 1st and 3rd will be less than 10 points. I think Arsenal may hurt the most from their off-season loss of players and finish 4th.
     
  25. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

    Jan 12, 2007
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think we can gauge the success of some clubs signings this far into the season.

    We can give fairly accurate assessments on Lucas Leiva, Robie Keane, Phillip Degen, Andrea Dossena and whether or not it was a good idea to keep Xabi Alonso..............

    Personally I think Alonso's retention has been a positive thing. I even have him in my dream team. :) He's been Liverpool's best player this year and I don't think they're missing Gareth Barry in the slightest.

    Dossena - terrible.
    Degen - dismissable.
    Keane - laughable.
    Lucas - annonymous.

    On the flip side, I'll admit I didn't expect to see Liverpool sitting pretty at the top of the table come January.

    Your thoughts?
     

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