I will summarize the thread. 1) Metroflip is the best athletic supporter in the best athletic supporter group in the USA. 2) Cosmos is pushing Metroflip's buttons.
Demos Demos Lose Your Cool Demos Demos Lose Your Cool All pissing thread contest aside... If a group wants to be a supporters group, not just any supporters group, but leading an example as to what a supporters club should be, you should attempt to lead chants at the game. Set the precedent, set the tone. Leading chants/songs and setting the mood for the game is as high a regard as any in being a supporters group/section. In one of the most attended, best atmosphere games we have seen the US play. Perhaps the best atmosphere ever for a US friendly, we saw who brings the noise. I'm just glad the boys on the field felt that extra excitement from the crowd and can take that adrenaline into the opening of World Cup Qualifying. It was a great send off. We should all be proud of that.
You have to be fair. ESC was better represented than any other specific group because it's our home stadium. If the game were in another MLS city, the supporters club there would probably have been setting the tone and leading the chants. I personally haven't been to any other USA games, so I have nothing to compare to.
There were probably more SOBs in Section 101 than ESCers. Got to give SOBs props for showing up in large numbers. As for the chants, I haven't been around as long as others, so I rather not comment on setting the tone. Though, if my recent experiences at the U-20 World Cup in Montreal and Olympic Qualifying in Nashville are any indication, than one group truly stands out.
As an aside nicky, my ex wife was an italian from boston. Her mom had a close irish friend. Upon seeing some italians on the corner, she said "look at those greasy wops". my ex mother in law said WTF, I'm italian. "But you're not like them". To which my ex's mom responded in her spot on boston accent: "When we were painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, you were pullin potatoes out of the mud." A classic. Flip's a wuss.
ESC was loud. Very loud. Added a lot to my experience. It was my first Nats game, and I loved it. It was awesome when I looked over and saw people doing wipeout.
Now, just imagine the entire end behind the goal doing Wipeout. A couple thousand people doing Wipeout at the same time would look beyond amazing. It would create an intimidating atmosphere. Now, that's a homefield advantage!
In the risk of running this thread even deeper in the dirt (and lets just admit this thread is 180 degrees off track right now anyway), i gotta say man where was all this shit talking in the lot on sunday? You weren't so bold then when we were staring you in the face. Your internet personality and your in-person personality are completely at odds with each other. Just when i think you may actually be a respectable guy, you go and post something on the interent and remind me otherwise. However, I will glady take your $20 bucks and pull your ESC card and thank you for your donation to our cause.
Would love to see it happen. We just need the help of the rest of the passionate fans to make it happen. We'll continue doing it, eventually the others will catch on.
Personally i am all for singing derogatory songs about the nations we play as long as it doesn't cross racial lines. Making fun of England in song for having to retreat from Dunkirk, or making fun of Mexicans for the sombreros, or using mild political charged chants are all ways of winding up other fans and taking their focus off supporting their team and on to you. And well, hell its fun too. Songs about opposing players are designed to get into their head and take them off their game. To do that you gotta come strong and strike an emotional cord. Granted today's professional athlete is used to it and the effects are suspect, but its worth the effort nonetheless. One of the best/funniest chants i ever heard at a US game was agaisnt Iran in the 98 WC. "You're Shiite and you know you are" That had a hint of religious overtones but hardly a wildly offensive song by our country's standards. All in all, i understand it is important to have a better moral ground in these instances, but lets face facts we play teams chanting "Osama!", "9/11", and other anti-US songs...we just return serve like Federer.
But we can say the same about you guys. as well Flip came over to us after the game Sunday . He never mention this shite about being offened by any song sung on Saturday. He didn't say anything till today. And why post it on here ? PM one of us. We would've cleared it up. I don't get the animosity
That would be nice, but lets get on point. Sams Army, and to a lesser extent AO, both need to do a MUCH better job at organization. Currently SA is just a collection of many different levels of USA fans that show up to games. If SA and AO are really going to take off they need to be highly organized and mobilzed clubs. How long has it been since the SA site was updated? Why is there not a braoder leadership coalition with more defined roles? You cant tell me there isn't enough interested people out there that would step up if asked and commsioned. The reason i am not involved in any is because i HATE disorganization, whats the point of belonging to a club when they dont do anything for you, lead you, etc. The pre-sale window for section 101 was scandolusly short, the pre-game preperations were weak, was there extensive communication from the top to the bottom on the logistics of the gameday atmosphere? The large flags were brought by not affilated people from NJB. The drums (bombos) were supplied by non SA/AO people. Where would we have been without them? Things really need to change if we expect to have a racuious, wild, loud and organized section on gamedays.
I think he was refering to AO not you guys. (he had the same complaint to AO guys in nashville running around singing that song at the Hondurans in attendance)
I agree , but we have to come together. Not rip each other at every turn. Here on the east coast it shouldn't be that hard. With all the clubs in the MLS. There needs to be real chapters in every city.
I asked him straight out. He just said it wasn't ESC...Anyway the bottom line is we should all be on the same page when it comes to rooting for our country
But in order for there to be real chapter, in more than name only, there needs to be a sea change in the way the total organization is run. Numbers and communication should take precident in a large national supporters organization over profit. There needs to be more heads at the table invloved in making decisions and being more aggresive with the USSF. The past few ticket policies have been horrid. The WC ticket fiasco, the premier friendlies ticket cost and pre-sale, etc. Funding should be set up differenly, strategic partnerships should be a must, and for god's sake some transparacy.
I agree with you here - I think these two groups should work together - and all supporters clubs all just work together to make all the passion we see from you guys at GS all the way to LA - time to take that passion and bring it together for the US - you saw what happened (and of course the rain helped) but that last 10 minutes - our section was nuts and the crowd chimed in - Now - it doesnt matter if it was the AO guys or the SA guys When it comes to supporting your country it shouldn't be a pull down your draws and lets measure contest - it should be lets support together and do what we can to make it amazing for all around us!
as the OP and a NYer I find the back and forth here petty of course but absolutely entertaining. let me ask you guys this, who is going to be at the HDC Sunday? can't wait to meet some people from here.....
Of course, now working with the USSF is the real stumbling block. I see that being the biggest hurdle. Strategic partnerships, for sure . But that also means working with people who you may not like
Unity is paramount, but its hard to have unity when there are competing groups with different philosophies on supporter culture. I can tell you ESC has a much different philosophy than most all MLS crews (La Barra Brava is the closest to us in the way we support and style). So you get a lot of fans from different locals coming together with wildly different styles, and thus a mixed message. I am very different in how i approach supporting than a guy from The Inferno. Without a strong organized leadership to set the policy you end up with competing interests. AO and SA have a common goal but different styles, hense the conflict. I already have seen the competition take hold. Its only going to grow more divisive over time unless the two organizations take a more serious approach to doing "business".
I agree , i'm more from the Brit style of supporting . But I don't mind singing in spanish at all. But at the end of the day its up to you me , and every other die hard supporter. we can do it, it will just take some time
Well then to get this thread back on topic as it did get a bit silly there Then the answer to the OP's question should probably be BOTH OF THEM - not one or the other - obviously if they put the brain trusts together, they can really do something special! We all know your a guy of reason - what would you suggest? I mean i think the AO guys and the SA guys need to talk - of course I can not force them - put both groups together, take some things from both sides and make it happen!
Ao exists for a reason, to fill the massive vacum created by SA's apparent lack of interest in small markets and their lack of communication and activity. I dont knw the whole story of SA, just bits and pieces, but the organization in my estimation needs a complete overhaul in how they do business and be a REAL ARMY, with mobilzed forces, a command structure, and discipline. AO i think should work togther with SA to create a broader coalition of forces and develop a unified message and line of communication to the troops on the ground. There is no reason things should be so helter skelter or habberdash in a USA section. I would offer to help out, but i am too involved in these same issues right now at the club level as we are under reorganization and developing similar methods as we move forward into a new stadium and era in our club's history. But i am certain there are enough bright and talented people within the USA group that could/would be able to offer legitimate and effective assistance to an effort like that of what we speak.
Excellent! We are back on topic. As for SA, I have been a member going back probably 5 years. When I first started going to games, it had benefits specifically tickets with a pre-sale. Back then it seemed SA's mission was just for a place for US fans to congregate for US games. Now, there seems to be two competing mindsets and being a member of either group doesn't seem to have the benefits that it once had. One is the fan who likes to travel to games, be in the center of the atmosphere, but rather let others make the atmosphere. Two is the fan who goes to games, wants to be the center of the atmosphere, and does everything possible to make that atmosphere. The problem is they are both included in the same section and get tickets in the same section. I guess the main issue is passive participation (wear the color/jersey, occasional chant) vs active participation (90 minute vocals/jump/dance). This is something we may have to battle for years to come. As for the organization, I just think better outreach is needed. As Sack mentioned, better communication and more transparency. The active participants should be in regular contact via an email list/message board. Songs lists should be passed out. Those active participants should make it a mission to congregate together in a section in an effort to get chants off the ground and set the tone for a game. The last part is something we tried to do Sunday and I think worked decently well. Something a long time ESC member that doesn't need to be named has told me countless times, "You are here to bring the noise for 90 minutes. You aren't here to watch the game, that's why you have TIVO." I take that with me everytime I am in the stadium. There may also be the issue that there just aren't enough passionate active participants. Though, I am of the mindset that anyone can be converted if they see the passion you bring to a game.