U.S. Starting 11

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by mrliioadin, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    Going into the world cup qualifiers and probably more importantly in the near future (because of the players I'm mentioning) the U-23 Olympic qualification process, here is my question.

    When looking at our midfield we've always seemed to use Landon as an attacking center mid. Under Bradley we've moved him out right more often and employed any two of Clark, Bradley, Feilhaber, or Edu (maybe the aging Mastroeni) in the center mid roles and played them both as either defensive or at the very least passive center mids. They are not extremely dangerous attacking footballers.

    If we are going to move Donovan out right anyway (Which I guess I can see the benifit of) Why doesn't that open up the attacking center midfield position for Freddy Adu. I think we all agree he belongs at this level. He's not scoring goals yet but he is very dangerous. He is a very strong set up man who can get assists. Most importantly he is smaller but quick and moves in a very direct way towards the box which leads to fouls around the 18 and maybe some PK's.

    That gives us the chance to play my selection, Maurice Edu, at a straight defensive center mid position and allows him the freedom to just be a ball winner and enforcer. He certainly isn't one of the more attacking minded players but he is anything but passive. I think he has performed better under the national team colors than the other 3 I mentioned seriously.

    We still have Convey left. Beasley will be back from his knee injury in like 12 years or something but he'll factor in eventually. That gives us a strong diamond formation that I think could be stronger than the one we took to the 2002 world cup and most certainly stronger than the one we chose for 2006 (that's a shot at Reyna).

    I think this gives us the chance to switch Donovan for Dempsey one-for-one right mid to striker. It allows us to move Freddy forward to striker and then tuck Donovan back inside at CAM. It still leaves room for another dangerous striker like Altidore, maybe Ching. It gives us a lot of flexibility throughout the lineup and you can bring Bradley, Feilhaber, Clark, or Mastroeni off the bench.

    Let's not forget that if he needed to (though I wouldn't suggest it) Freddy could still slide out to left mid.

    I've been trying to think of a solution to this log-jam at center mid for a while and I think rather than forcing players onto the field I think we need to bring back the dangerous attacking midfielder, choose our best of the D-mids. Bench the struggling Feilhaber (and I'm a big fan of his) until he is starting at his club and performing, and decide to play either Bradley or Edu. You know my choice.

    the limits it places on our substitutions or even for that matter to make on the fly changes is Adu or Dempsey or Donovan is having a poor game. A lot still hinges on the D-mid selection but for the most part you could sub in any midfielder or striker at any time for any player and make it work. The exception would be that D-mid.

    Also Danny Szetela looked pretty good at right mid against Switzerland. I'm not saying he's a shoe in or a right mid but maybe we should have another look at that.

    Tell me what you think. We'll see how some of these guys play this week.
     
  2. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I had a game tomorrow, I'd go with:


    ----------Altidore---------------
    ----------------Dempsey--------

    --Adu--------------------Donovan
    ------------Bradley--------------
    --------------Edu----------------


    Pearce----------------------Dolo--
    ----------Boca----Onyewu-------
    --------------Howard-------------

    Not pretty, but with form, injuries, and player combos, it's the best we have.
     
  3. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    Well no offense man but you kind of ignored what I was talking about in terms of the midfield (and perhaps I should have clarified in the title). But I would disagree with playing two defensive mids again and again. I think we loose that strong attacking presence that Donovan always gave us and that Adu or maybe even Dempsey can still give us.

    Also, Freddy has never really shown well at left mid. He's too isolated out there and doesn't help out defensively. He can do it (as I mentioned) but not very well and certainly not as well as Convey (even if he is a bit out of form).
     
  4. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No offense taken - I read through the post, I just didn't agree with your midfield choice.

    Our biggest problem right now is that some of our very talented players don't have complementary skill sets. Adu, Dempsey, and Donovan are all best suited to play that second line of attack. Bradley, Clark, and Edu are all very comfortable holding down the middle.

    Right now, Dempsey and Donovan are our two best players, so I think we need to find a way to start both of them. From what I've seen of them at the national level and their club performances with SJ, New England, LA, and Fulham, I'm more comfortable with Dempsey in the middle and Donovan out wide.

    With Convey still coming back to form and Beasley injured, I think Adu is the next best option on the left (even if it isn't his favored position.) However, fielding Adu means we must atone for his lack of defense - hence, my Edu-Bradley pairing (even if it isn't my favored center-mid pairing.)

    The backline is pretty much set, and the hope is that Pearce and Cherundolo can provide the width, because neither Donovan nor Adu are natural wide midfielders.

    As to your original post, I don't think Donovan or Adu can run the offense from attacking mid right now. If you're looking for a guy who could play the point in the diamond, our best candidate is Feilhaber. However, with his lack of playing time, I don't think you can pencil him in the starting lineup.
     
  5. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Put either Simek or Spector in for Dolo and I think I would take that line up as well, only because Beez is injured.
     
  6. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One more thought on Bradley - Edu: the two have paired together for exactly two full games, and both times, Feilhaber was out on the right.

    From what I gathered on these boards, people didn't question the skill level of either player, but rather how they can play together (the positioning in South Africa left much to be desired.) I'm willing to give Bradley - Edu more time before saying definitively that it doesn't work.
     
  7. Kevin8833

    Kevin8833 Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Estero, FL
    I like the idea of a Bradley-Edu CM pairing a lot, let Bradley play like he does at Herenveen and play infront of Edu, Edu would be more of a d-mid in this position but he would be capable of it and also would have great technical ability and athleticism for the position, Bradley infront of him brings tremendous workrate defensively and offensively, is good at spraying the ball around and great at making dangerous runs into the box, this set up could work very well in my opinion.
     
  8. quitoamature

    quitoamature Member

    Sep 4, 2004
    New Orleans
    basically the US plays 3 high level games every four years.

    in the WCQ & Gold Cup we look to dominate.

    And sometimes we play the Copa America and Confed Cup but use it to develop our players.

    why not pick a system to utilize athletisism and create a culture of attacking soccer so when we do play those three high level games we come our confident.

    4-3-3

    timmy
    dolo gooch c'los j-spec
    ld jr. dmb
    duece jozy freddy
     
  9. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    Why in the world would you replace our best overall defender and replace him with Simek or Spector?
     
  10. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    If I had to go with a starting eleven (and lets say everyone was healthy)...it would go as follows....

    ----------Altidore----------------
    ----------------------Donovan--------
    ---Beasley-------------------Dempsey----
    -----------Feilhaber----------------
    --------------------Bradley-------------
    ---Bornstein-----------------------Cherundolo
    --------------Bocanegra---Onyewu------------
    ------------------Howard------------------

    Adu would be #1 sub off the bench incase anyone of Altidore, Dempsey, Donovan and/or Beasley have an off night.
     
  11. Kevin8833

    Kevin8833 Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Estero, FL
    4-2-3-1:

    --------------------Howard----------------
    ---------------Onyewu---Spector----------
    Cherundalo---------------------------Pearce
    --------------------Edu--------------------
    -------------------Bradley------------------
    Dempsey--------------------------------Adu
    -------------------Donovan-----------------
    --------------------Altidore-----------------

    -Howard is clearly our first choice goalkeeper.
    -Onyewu is the muscle for the target forwards.
    -Spector still brings decent size but would be the technical more athletic CB.
    -Pearce and Cherundalo are both good two way wingbacks who will provide cover for very attack oriented wingers.
    -Edu is the d-mid who sits behind Bradley and cleans up for the midfield, sitting infront of the back four and distributing, he also could make timely runs into the box but would be more defensive and possession oriented.
    -Bradley plays the same role he does with Herenveen, getting the ball and providing loads of workrate through the middle of the park, hustling and covering all over the place, winging the ball and combining as well as making dangerous runs into the box.
    -Dempsey and Adu go at people one vs one on the flanks and combine with the two forwards, or cross into the box. They are attacking minded and try to create mismatches and chances with their great ability on the ball.
    -Donovan looks to combine off of Altidore and also take advantage anytime he can get into open space to spread out the defense and go to goal.
    -Altidore is the target forward who will hold the ball up, be a presence in the air and also have the ability to create for himself.

    This is a very effective lineup for us in my opinion and if we had one game we had to win I think I would go with this at least for now.
     
  12. asdf2

    asdf2 Member+

    Oct 11, 2004
    San Francisco
    I pretty much like your 11 but we are unlikely to play much 433. We usually don't dominate in WCQ. Road games are tough, as our home games usually vs teams like Costa Rica, Jamaica, etc. Plus there is a home and home vs. Mexico. It's about getting points.
     
  13. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The US under BB does not use an a-mid. The position does not exist to slide a freddy adu into.

    Beasley is not a diamond style left midfielder. He doesn't have technical skills for the role. Convey isn't really a starter for the team.

    It doesn't make sense to use off-forwards in BB's system, a system which relies on long ball and flank-attacks. That's why he goes with the bigger guys up front.

    There is no 'log jam' at center mid. We have an established MLS pro. We have some prospects. None of them is much decorated at senior international level.
     
  14. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    That's the arguement. I believe an A-mid is needed. Particularly in matches against weaker CONCACAF opponents in World Cup Qualifying.The team is far too passive right now and anyone with a little ambition will find a way through eventually. The pace of the U.S. game has slowed down considerably imo.

    There's nothing else I can say other than I disagree. I think Clark, Bradley, Edu, Feilhaber, Donovan, Adu, Dempsey, Mastroeni, Szetela Even Brad Davis are all capeable of playing for us. Some are better than others, some would play different roles in the middle of the park but I find it frustrating that we aren't utilizing some of the best players in the world. You take one of our best attacking options and limit his touches by moving him wide and remove that thread from the middle of the field entirely. I think it needs to be replaced with someone who's willing to run at the defense.

    That being said, there are situations when the two D-mids might be a better idea. The majority of the time I think we need someone with a little ambition.

    By the way. I don't believe Altidore can play in a lone striker role nor do I expect Bradley to ever really try it. I could be wrong I hope I'm not.
     
  15. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    the way nowak sued freddy last night will be the model for how BB uses freddy eventually...

    altidore needs to show up...diddly versus cuba, get mls going and get PT...
     
  16. hoya

    hoya Member

    Feb 8, 2008
    New York
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Lets hope your right about Adu.

    As for Altidore I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions here. He had one bad game, not to mention that it was only one half. He actually looked pretty good over the first 15 minutes or so and I fear he might of got a little dinged up on a hard tackle. It was pretty clear that that tackle was something of a turning point in his play. Even if it wasnt an injury 30 or so bad minutes is not enough to overshadow everything hes done thus far.
     
  17. quitoamature

    quitoamature Member

    Sep 4, 2004
    New Orleans
    i know we don't play 433 now but my point is we should start and form a system.

    there is no reason why the line up i presented cannot become a 442 or 451.

    I just feel we should become an athletic, physical team that attacks.

    so many times we go through WCQ changing our formation that we getthe WC and we play a 4411 or 451 and have no finishing.

    we need to change our teams attitiude.
     
  18. asdf2

    asdf2 Member+

    Oct 11, 2004
    San Francisco
    Originally Posted by Adam Zebrowski
    the way nowak sued freddy last night will be the model for how BB uses freddy eventually...


    I agree with that sort of.

    If you mean Freddy plays behind Altidore (or some other target guy) and in front of two d-mid/holding mid types (Dax and Edu in this case), yep I do see that happening.

    But I do hope that for the rest of this U23 tourney and more importantly on the MNT we have proper wingers on the wings instead of forwards trying to play wide. I'm sure others have criticized this all over BS too but seems to me Davies and Findley were played out of position. Even one pure winger and one creative type with skill (think Beasley and Donovan on the MNT) would seem to work better.
     
  19. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No more friggin' 4-5-1 (don't hand me 4-3-3).

    -----------Howard-----------
    Dolo---Gooch----Boca---Pearce
    -----------Bradley-----------
    Donovan----Adu----Beasley
    -----Dempsey---Altidore------
     
  20. E Diddy

    E Diddy Member

    Jul 1, 2003
    Hutto, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like this a lot, but I still haven't seen Pearce enough to feel that he's better than Spector or Bornstein. I'm not saying he's NOT better, I just haven't seen enough of him to put him down. But I like the Adu-Bradley core with lots of dangerous attacking players running off them.

    That's basically the way Novak used Freddy last night, grafted into our A team. Well done, True Crew.
     
  21. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Howard, Bornstein, Conrad, Onyewu, Cherundolo, Bradley, Clark, Beasley, Donovan, Dempsey, Ching

    Ching is a better choice right now than Altidore IMO. He's a very good passer and has great chemistry with Donovan.

    I also am not thrilled about Bocanegra possibly starting for us.
     
  22. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    "If you mean Freddy plays behind Altidore (or some other target guy) and in front of two d-mid/holding mid types (Dax and Edu in this case), yep I do see that happening. "


    YES...sub in the notion it bradley with edu, at the u-23 level and eventually at the full seniors...

    have donovan and dempsey out there with adu, and i suggest ching in place of altidore, in the short term, and i can see a very dangerous group of attackers...

    altidore 1st attacking sub off the bench...

    eventually adu will run the offense at the senior level....this might be far sooner than we realize...like semis of the wcq process right after the olympics, assuming usa doesn't get beat my mexico in the oly qual semis
     
  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Depends on the personnel. If BB sticks with a forward rotation of 2 of Ching, Altidore, and Dempsey and uses Holden or Rogers on the left flank then the bucket will generate plenty of attack. Otherwise he could simply switch to a christmas tree which would be a better fit for the tweener types.

    Only three of those players are first eleven central midfielders at club level. Hardly a log jam.



    Beez lacks the ball skills for a diamond. Bradley isn't a d-mid and def not a lone d-mid. Adu isn't a central mid in 4-man midfield.
     
  24. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Who do you intend to play this against? Against a WC team, it'll get us beat 2 or 3-0.

    For all the attacking firepower this brings on paper, we'll lack a midfield. Players will be tracking back. We'll spend lots of time on the back foot. Many 50/50 balls in the center will be lost and few won. Long balls will be hit. And everybody here will agree that we're unimaginative and boring. A team without a center of midfield is not a team, and Bradley CANNOT hold down the center of midfield by himself. Adu won't even bother.
     
  25. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I watched that game and wrote down every chance we created. Our problem was our backline's deliberate decision to go long instead of playing short, bad fullback play which has been a consistent theme, and our forwards not being fully fit. Our CM play in that game was good but the team as a whole was off in very fixable ways. We're not going to be smooth right away if the problems are fixed but the results should come and when they don't the reasons can be found.

    What made Edu and Bradley so good was their ability to combine forward, diagonaly, centraly, and wide, while also providing great support for their teammates. It seemed like 10 minutes in Edu figured it out and he and Bradley were able to constantly triangulate with one another. The team was not able to take advantage of that. I've described how top CM combo's operate from a CB in possession, to the edge of the box, and until the final third Edu and Bradley were very similar to many of them. What's needed is for one of them to consistently be breaking into the box with Dempsey or Jozy. That's almost how Veen does it, this team can improve on Veen by alternating runs from the CM's allowing both of them to cover more ground on defense. Hopefully Bob has found this out, PM me if you do?
     

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