Will John on trial in Denmark?

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by szazzy, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. Beech

    Beech Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think his head is getting to him a bit.

    Look the guy came back to the KC Area from the Fire (essentially because if you're going to be living on MLS minimum salary peanuts, you might as well be able to live at home or in a cheaper market if possible).

    He unfortunately went through 3 coaches in Gansler, Bliss & Onalfo. All of which have World Cup class experience either as players or in a coaching capcity; and although each may have seen him in a different role possibly, all of them used him the same way; as the 3rd or 4th person deep on the bench. This is even with practice, USOC and reserve team level competition for evaluation. So it's not like they didn't know what was there.

    Lastly, it doesn't sound like he was exactly lighting up the premier leagues in the indoor facilities around town which should've tailored more to his skill set. Yes he could school the div 2-5 ranks if he picked up but not with the likes of the Park players, former Comets/Attack guys and the general younger fit talent that is pretty prominent in those circles.

    I wish him the best but it's not Kansas City's fault. Some maybe, but not all.
     
  2. dgb09

    dgb09 Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Overland Park, KS
    If one coach had buried him on the bench then he might have a real reason to hold a grudge. But he had three chances to impress a coach (2.5 if you think Bliss was just an extension of Gansler). At any rate, he couldn't break through with three different coaches making roster decisions. I hope he's able to succeed and potentially come back to MLS as a difference maker. Apparently he's not yet ready for that.
     
  3. RobbHeineman

    RobbHeineman New Member

    Feb 7, 2007
    "I was in a bad situation for two years. I wasn't treated the way I probably should have been and was told I would have been and this is the way for me to continue my career for the better."

    To all Kansas City Wizards fans.....the fact that Mr. John insinuates he was lied to ("I wasn't treated the way I probably should have been and was told I would have been") is not true. His outward statements fly directly in the face of the type of player we want in Kansas City. We wish him the best in Denmark. He will never step foot on our training fields again and as a result our team will not suffer for a moment.
     
  4. TPBinKC

    TPBinKC Member

    Feb 2, 2007
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That answers that...
     
  5. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wow
     
  6. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Wow indeed.
     
  7. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Will John is doing very well by the look at the preseason games so far and he will no doubt get his fair share of league games this season, though he ofacuse need to adjust to the Danish Superliga and especially improve tactically. But then this was/is also the case for Jeremiah White at AGF Aarhus and most other foreign players moving to Denmark. The former England international, Randers manager Colin Todd also seem quite confident that he has made the right decision by bringing in Will.

    I'm sure a player like Zlatan Ibrahimovic would still be warming the bench at some small Swedish team if this was the attitude by clubs and managers in Scandinava..

    Fortunately it is well known among top managers that the most talented/ambitious players usually also have an "attitude" that to some extend need to be accepted by the coach and club, for the player to flourish. To get right to the point, then it's simply a sign of poor man-management skills if a coach/club get so easily insulted like Mr. Heineman above, not to forget that it quite frankly seem amateuristic posting it in a support forum like this.

    If your obviously a skilled and ambitious young player like Will John, you ofcause get highly disappointed by warming the bench. So it should be... and ther is really no reason to get offended by him saying it openly. The fact is that he has not really said anything bad about Kansas City Wizards, though it seem obvious that he was not quite happy with the general quality of training in the US :

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13787471&postcount=59
    .
     
  8. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Will John was insinuating that he was lied to. I'd be offended too. He had to earn his spot on the field like every other player, and he never did in the eyes of 3 coaches. Will was born in Kansas City, and a lot of us have watched him grow up playing, so most of us are rooting for him to do well. The sense of entitlement he had when he came here was undeserved.

    If Will John was so ambitious, he would've fought hard for playing time. What he did was sulk that a starting role wasn't handed to him, then took a cheap shot once he was out the door.

    I think most KC fans greatly appreciate Robb's candor, and wish he'd post more straightforward statements like the one above. I'm sure, just like in the US, it isn't common in Denmark to have such unfettered access to the owners of your club. It's the best part of being a Wizards fan.

    Maybe if Robb and the rest of OnGoal bought Aarhus or Randers (which they could do 10 times over), they could teach you that it's better not to make up words like amateuristic when trying to lecture someone.
     
  9. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well said Jeff.

    You call it an "attitude" I say he's whining and complaining because he couldn't break into the first team.
     
  10. Soccer7947

    Soccer7947 Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Kansas
    I am holding my judgement untill I see how he plays in the Danish league... If he plays well then I will question the FO, and if he plays like crap... I will applaued the FO...

    I do have to agree with this guy thou because freddy adu is the same way... if not worse... he is a up coming star, and Will John played with the younger NATs. Sometimes the system is right... all we can do is wait and see....
     
  11. the_cyclones

    the_cyclones New Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    The Cauldron
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regardless of whether or not Will John succeeds over in Denmark, and I certainly hope he does, the KCWFO made the right decision. If WJ changes his attitude and proves himself then that's great. But it wasn't gonna happen here in KC. He got traded for Diego Gutierrez and a big deal was made locally about him coming back, but 3 coaches later - nothing. So KC let him go.

    I can just imagine that the locker room is much better w/o Will John ... and Eddie Johnson ... so if that improves the team, then great. Anyway, good luck to Will John. He definitely has to prove himself now.
     
  12. worldsoccer217

    worldsoccer217 New Member

    Oct 31, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, good for Will if he succeeds but the fact is that there is a reason he didn't breakthrough with the team here in KC with 3 coaches, be it attitude or quality of play.
    I watched him play with the Reserves and he didn't particularly stand out, which means it could be an attitude problem more than anything (if he is as good as the Danish team believes he is). If he does have a “bad attitude”, usually this is reoccurring symptom in a professional player’s career.
    Although I wish him the best of luck in this "step up" in his career he's not a superstar yet, maybe not even a starter in the Danish league, so keeping his mouth shut is something he should work on; once he reaches an elite status in the sport he might have the right to talk about “his miserable life in Kansas City”, before that he’s just riding the bench in different country.
    Also, burning bridges with old teams doesn't score you points in the soccer community; everybody knows everybody else in the world of soccer and if he doesn't succeed in Europe and has to come home looking for another MLS team I'm sure Kansas City will be getting calls from any interested team wanting to know about him; glowing recommendations might not be coming his way anymore.
     
  13. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 11, 2006
    Olathe, Kansas
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, #1 he's not going to dominate the Superliga or anything, at best he will put in some quality minutes. #2 Scandinavian leagues are not known for being football powerhouses so if he plays well, maybe it means something and maybe it doesn't. MLS is very physical, at times overly violent, and Mr. John is very small so I'm thinking that combination might have something to do with his failure to impress three different head coaches enough to get on the pitch in a game that counted.

    But yeah, Ceres, he did say something bad abut the Wizards--he said they lied to him. Lying=bad. I would be awfully surprised if anyone told Will he was going to get significant PT without first earning it. Probably he felt he did "earn it" by practicing hard, or showing off his ball skills (which I have to admit are pretty good), or something else. But I really suspect what he needed and failed to do was to show any of those 3 coaches that he wasn't going to get shoved off the ball at the slightest touch.
     
  14. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    1) Actually you would get very surprised how easy it is to get access to a comment from the manager or to get a personal answer if you send an e-mail to a top Club in Denmark, but you will never see a Club manager or director posting stuff like this in a support forum, or even try to debate a specific player in a support forum, unless ofcause we are talking about absolute amateur clubs in the lower leagues... a professional manager/director simply know better than to do this.., but then I guess rich club owners are not really professionals at man-management at a top-flight club or handeling the media...


    2) Ther are no single owners of clubs in denmark, but you are free to buy AGF shares on the stock market... I guess the market value of the AGF shares is around $90 million at the moment, I dont know about Randers.....


    Or did he now ?!... You... or should I say, Mr. Heineman assume that Will John insinuated that he was lied to... Which brings me back to how Mr. Heineman show that he is not a professional in the way he deals with the newsmedia and with man-management at a sports club.

    Ther were also several ppl in the 'Yanks Abroad' forum being offended about Will John supposedly saying that quote - "The soccer is tremendously better here" unquote...

    What he actually was talking about, was the quality of the training sessions in Randers, that in his opinion is much better than what he has been used to in the US.. which is not the same as talking bad about Kansas City Wizards or the MLS in general...

    Ofcause when he has been warming the bench for quite some time and with not much hope of getting to play, it should be no surprise if he think he has been in a bad situation for some years and it would be better for him to leave. He would ofcause not have signed a contract if the club had told him that he was only to warm the bench. So his statements actually makes perfect sense, but this not the same as him having said that the club was lying..
    .
     
  15. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Well, to be honest, club owners usually dont have a clue, and as for the 3 coaches who did not want to use Will John, then I just believe much more in a highly experienced European top manager like Colin Todd when it comes coaching and evaluating a player.. Ofcause I may be wrong doing so, but I doubt it.
    .
     
  16. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    <ModEdit>

    Instead of that, maybe, JUST MAYBE, the 3 coaches that passed on starting John realized that he didn't have the physical attributes (aka size) to play consistently in MLS, which is know more for it's physicality then it's finesse and skill.

    But that "ofcause" would mean you'd actually have to think that American coaches know something and you as a European wouldn't want to admit that now would you?
     
  17. KCBearcat

    KCBearcat New Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now, now, Mike... Maybe he's just jealous that a member of our ownership group knows what he's doing and shows some semblance of intelligence because he doesn't <Mod Edit>

    Course, he does come off <Mod Edit>. But that may be a defense mechanism so we take a little longer to figure out that he's really just an arrogant prick who doesn't know squat about MLS. :rolleyes:
     
  18. toritoritorrence

    toritoritorrence New Member

    Sep 26, 2007
    the LX
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    unfortunately you see players say a lot worse than that about their situations at different clubs.

    personally, i think the response by rob was more uncalled for than will john saying he didn't like sitting on the bench.
     
  19. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It might have been inappropriate, but I like the fact that we have an owner that cares so much about this team that he's not willing to sit idly by and let a former player make comments that defame the club.
     
  20. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Even Lee Nguyen would struggle to get minutes in MLS. This league eats up undersized guys who get muscled off the ball.

    Neither Lee nor Will would get minutes at a Premeirship club. MLS translates most closely to the Championship or League Two in terms of play, and both players are ill-suited for such leagues.

    I'm not surprised Will thinks more highly of a system that values what he brings to the table. There's a way to disagree respectfully and still leave with class. Will's comments struck me the wrong way too. He had his opportunities, but probably should have gone to Europe to begin with so he could get over himself and take his career seriously.
     
  21. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 11, 2006
    Olathe, Kansas
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Knows better than to do this? What does that even mean? Using a forum, Mr. Heinemann can control his own accessibility, volunteer the information he wishes to volunteer, and respond to what he wishes, while letting the sensitive questions just...slip into the ether. It's not like he's holding weekly press conferences or something.

    "I wasn't treated the way I ...was told I would have been"

    There's your accusation. [They told me they would treat me a certain way, and they did not.] That's more or less the definition of lying. In fact,

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie see definition 6.

    What?! You mean to tell me that footballers interpret the signing of a contract to mean that they will be in the first 11? I call bull$4!t. Footballers don't have much of a rep for...er...sophistication, but that's just plain assclownery.

    1990–1991 Middlesbrough
    1995–1999 Bolton Wanderers
    2000 Swindon Town
    2001–2002 Derby County
    2004–2007 Bradford City
    2007– Randers FC

    I spy a trend...

    Word.
     
  22. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Just for your information, but in Denmark/Europe players first go on trials and/or have talks with the clubs sporting director or manager over a long period of time, before being persuaded to sign with the club. If they are young foreign players (also in their early 20's), the sporting director very often visit the players parents to talk about the club and the players future at the club, to show the player how serious they are about signing a deal. The player then ofcause also get invited to visit the club to get the grand tour... If you think players just sign up without thinking much about it and are less "sophisticated" than ppl in general, then your plain wrong...

    We seem to agree... But then this is also exactly why I dont really rate the evaluation of the 3 coaches ... which leads me to :


    I also spy a trend :

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13787471&postcount=59

    Let me guess....running and fitness session, followed by another fitness session, and tomorrow yet another fitness session and some more running, perhaps throwing in a few minutes with the ball now and then ?... I can see why the physical small, more "sophisticated" and technical Will John was not quite fitting in..

    As for Colin Todd, then how many former England Internationals, PFA Players' Player of the Year or former EPL managers have you had coaching Kansas City Wizards in the past ?..

    Ther is really no reason to be offended, because no matter if you like it or not, ther is good reason why I would rate the evaluation of a former EPL manager and present Danish Superliga manager higher than 3 American MLS coaches. It's not because I'm bias against American coaches in general, but they just have to prove their worth in... lets say the EPL, or in the Danish league for that matter, before I can rate their skills to be worth anything in a European context. Ther is simply still a World of difference in how things are done in US soccer in compare with Europe, both inside and outside the pitch.

    Colin Todd actually started his career by saving Middlesbrough from relegation from the English Second Division (2nd level at that time) and then leading them to the promotion play-offs the next season. He then moved to the EPL side Bolton and though he was not able to save them from relegation, he secured promotion the very next season and was no doubt a very good manager, but resigned due to the clubs lack of ambitions and the sale of Danish international Per Frandsen.. He then had some quickly forgotten short (a few month) stints at Swindon and Derby, before replacing Bryan Robson at Bradford City. This time staying on as the longest serving Bradford manager for 20 years. Doing quite well despite the lack of funds to sign reinforcements.... Now he is also doing more than well at Randers FC, despite the lack of funds. So I also spy a trend...
    .
     
  23. YilmazOrhan

    YilmazOrhan Well Brian, I hit it first time...

    Jun 18, 2006
    Suburbia, Kansas
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right now, I'm creating a mental image of Will John being dropped into Carlos Marinelli's spot in the lineup, dealing with all the double/triple teams and the pounding.....and it's not a pretty picture. Marinelli has played in far better leagues than MLS (or the Danish league), and yet he has had a lot of trouble adjusting to the style of play. Yet somehow, skinny little Will John was supposed to be handed a starting spot? I doubt those kind of promises were ever made, especially to a kid a year removed from college.

    MLS continues to be a league, no matter your skill level, where you can't really succeed without a certain amount of physicality. (See Adu, Freddy) Perhaps Will John should just shut up, and be thankful that he's found a league that can use what he brings to the table.

    But hey, as a wise man once said, "Whatever gets you through the night, it's all right."
     
  24. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    You're just guessing through this whole thread, and being predictably simple and provincial at the same time. Trolling and guessing. We know what MLS is. You're the one overhyping the amazing Colin Todd. Guus Hiddink loved Lee Nguyen. That doesn't mean Ancelotti would want to have anything to do with him. Each coach has their own system, and looks for specific players to fit it. I'm glad Will John found a place where he can enjoy success.

    There might be, but you sure as hell don't know.
     
  25. worldsoccer217

    worldsoccer217 New Member

    Oct 31, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    OK, you got us, we Americans just get our "short bus" ready and pick random people off the street and sign them to MLS contracts.:D


    Damn. I was hoping to quit my job today and sign a contract to play in the EPL...


    He is absolutely right. I do not understand why we waste our money sending our team down to Argentina to play with the top tier teams of the best league in South America; We could have spent our money and just had the players run around the field and do throw ins; because that's what Will John did last year... oh no... let me correct myself and say that he also went to Argentina, he also played those teams and showed what he had... maybe, if we had only stuck with the running and the throw ins he might have had a chance...;) If what you say is true then CO needs to go to Europe to learn how it is done because the coaches on this side of the pond know nothing; so I would like to start a collection to send CO to learn from the Danish Superliga or the English Second Division so he can make our practices more than just running around; I pledge $20. Who's with me.


    You got us. We can only boast that our guy was the assistant coach to the very succesful US national team in 2002 that reached the quarterfinals of the World Cup and the team that went to the 2006 WC (OK nothing to write home about there). I think the MLS needs to get more international exposure with tournaments at a CONCACAF and LIBERTADORES level and eventually you will see coaches migrating just like it's starting to happen in Mexico; at a National Team level we already can hold our own; the time will come.


    Look, I understand he was a coach in the EPL, but truth be told you don't really make a name for yourself leading teams to relegation. Yes, his second division is quite impressive but it isn't EPL. This still doesn't mean jack when it comes to talent evaluation; some of the best talent evaluators can't coach worth a lick. I'd like to know on a more serious note relating to "talent evaluation" what superstars that are playing in Europe did he bring up from the reserve divisions, gave them their "break" on their path to stardom? (I'm actually asking a question here) because that is where the real "talent evaluators" make a name for themselves; anybody can coach Messi, it was the guy who found him and brought him through the system who deserved the credit.


    You only wish your ownership showed the interest Rob shows for his team. At least he goes out there and shows some emotion; I wonder what your "shareholder" would have to say when people misrepresent or damage the team's image; and lying does that, it misrepresents the truth and he did misrepresent the truth. I personally believe that coaches and players react in a positive way when they know their owner has their back

    Wow, we're not worthy; we're not worth. Well actually we might be because that's only about $20 million less than what our stadium complex is going to cost. But hey, everyone owns a piece of the team, nice concept.

     

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