Harden Retired? Vanney In?

Discussion in 'LA Galaxy' started by m vann, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. socluis90

    socluis90 Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    So Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it wasn't for the salary cap issue I'd be ok with the trade. I didn't like Kirk at all last year and we need a CB. I just don't like the fact that our CB's are going to be old and slow. That scares me a little. Whose going to play for X when we play on turf?
     
  2. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Re: Bad Move

    So what should we do? We start up the preseason and suddenly our two starting centerbacks are gone (assuming X isn't going to cut it).

    We're cap constrained so we weren't hunting for defenders overseas. Instead, we did the smart thing and tried to get defenders through the draft.

    So, now we don't have the option to look internationally for defenders (it's getting late, we are just starting to scout South America, and they'll be expensive anyway).

    Who's going to be willing to trade us a starting defender at this point?

    It's basically going to be Vanney or nothing.

    DC got a very good deal (and all credit to them with their recent trades) giving up someone they were going to cut anyway for a generation addidas player.

    But just because it was a good trade for them doesn't mean it's a bad trade for us. IMO, Kirk will never be a starter for us. He has athleticism but no skills and I doubt he's Ruud's kind of player.

    As JoeW said, he was a cheap backup, and we need those. But he's probably what we have that can be traded and has trade value. Better him than Sesay.
     
  3. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yeah, I really hope they through in the rights to Needham too.
     
  4. socluis90

    socluis90 Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    So Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who is this Needham guy I keep reading about?
     
  5. Zman Gunner

    Zman Gunner BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 7, 2003
    Middletown, DE
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Jay Needham - 6'2" centerback from SMU - drafted by DC in the 3rd round last year - many draft pundits had him going higher. Opted to sign with Puerto Rico in USL instead of with DC since he would have had to start on the team with a developmental contract. He was USL Rookie of the Year last year.
     
  6. FlapJack

    FlapJack Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Re: Bad Move

    Alexi is an idiot. Harden leaving tough break. Why give DCU anything for Vanney? Vanney has somewhere between -1 and 1 good seasons left. Maybe we could trade Roberts for Jay Needham's rights? Alexi is an idiot. Kirk had injury problems, but didn't take a senior roster spot or count against the salary cap, and when healthy has shown potential as cover at RB and RM (especially as a second half sub his long strides and speed he was eating up defenses at the end of 2006). Alexi is an idiot. Harden signed at $50K would have given us more quality minutes over the next two years than Vanney will and at half the cost. If Harden's decision to leave had anything to do with salary it proves that Alexi is an idiot. Too bad this didn't happen earlier - before I renewed my season tickets. I am an idiot.
     
  7. Howard Roark

    Howard Roark New Member

    Feb 15, 2008
    So. Cal
    Why are we sweating these moves? Harden although young and inexpensive, while showing promise because of his size was marginal at best. Yes, this does deplete our depth in an otherwise lacking position. Harden is no great loss. Kirk, has oft-been injured and has shown lacked the pace necessary to be a difference maker. Also, with the inevitable roster additions of: Babayaro, Alvaro and Needham, I'm actually quite in favor of the Galaxies recent moves.

    In terms of salary cap, we should be fine. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. The cap in accordance to popular belief is set at $ 2.4 Mil, while the front office recently stated we had an additional $ 800 K in allocation monies. Meaning we had a total of $ 3.2 Mil to spend on salaries.

    As the current roster stands (with some assumptions, using last years salaries), it seems we should be fine in terms of salary. Once again, please correct me if I have made a mistake.


    Goalkeepers
    Cronin [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']34,728.75[/font]
    Alamo (Dev) 17,700
    Higgins (Dev) 17,700
    Defense
    Jazic (SI) 108,000
    Randolph (Dev) 17,700
    Roberts 30,000
    Vanney 216,667
    Xavier (SI) 156,000
    Franklin (Dev) 17,700
    Needham 52,500
    Valentin (Dev) 17,700
    Midfielders
    Beckham (SI) 400,000
    Gray 85,000
    Harmse (SI) 40,800
    Klein 180,000
    Martino 52,500
    Tuedela (Dev) 17,700
    Vagenas 131,250
    Babayaro (SI) 90,000
    Alvaro (SI) 90,000
    Forwards
    Buddle 140,000
    Donovan 400,000
    Gordon 30,870
    Ruiz (SI) 325,000
    Sesay 45,000
    Allen (Dev) 17,700

    The sum total of all the salaries above is $ 2,732,215.75, below the estimated dollar amount available to us.

    Obviously, I'm estimating in certain instances. Can't see Vagenas and Vanney signed at their past salaries, we should be seeing a decreased salary in both of their cases. Both Babayaro and Alves, I'm giving reasonable MLS salaries, although both could well demand larger salaries. Minimum Development contract are given to Alamo, Allen ,Franklin and Valentin. I used Martino's contract figure as a basis for Needham's salary as estimate, Needham may also command a larger contract.

    With this being said, I see much improvement from last years team and look forward to the commencement of this season.
     
  8. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, if Albright, Harden are gone, Jazic's out with an injury and Xavier MIGHT be gone.

    Are we ever going to "Gel"?
     
  9. FlapJack

    FlapJack Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Re: Bad Move

    Sure, maybe Kirk won't start for us, but why give him up if you don't have to? Do you think we're going to find 10 DEV players who might actually see the field to put on our roster? A guy like Kirk is one who could be a DEV player and actually contribute.

    Both Vanney and Needham are guys who DCU WAS NOT bringing in and moreover they are guys who they way they were handled by DCU probably have absolutely no desire to play for DCU even if they were wanted. The offer should have been a couple of supplemental draft picks. You want more? Then forget it. Just like Colorado - DCU has absolutely no leverage in this deal.

    A fair deal would have been us trading Veris and Pavon for Vanney and Needham.
     
  10. FlapJack

    FlapJack Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Yes about 2/3 of the way through the season, once we are virtually out of playoff contention.
     
  11. FlapJack

    FlapJack Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    Los Angeles
    And another thing ... it is apparent immediately that there is something seriously wrong with MLS and/or the LA Galaxy when you read this thread title:

    "Harden Retired? Vanney In?"

    How the h*ll does this title not read:

    "Vanney Retired. Harden In Form."
     
  12. haaamean

    haaamean Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Santa Ana, Costa Rica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    We have so many developmental players that are getting screwed, and I'm not someone who expects them to pay these guys more than what they do 1st season. The problem is none of them are getting raises this year, so why not not do something better with your college education than make 17k a year.

    See: Harden deserved a raise. Randolph deserves a raise, but they aren't getting it because we want cap room to bring in the old timers.

    geesh
     
  13. mparker

    mparker Member

    Jan 11, 2007
    Section 141 Row G
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have seen some alluding to X being gone. What's the problem, I know he is older, but when healthy he did a good job for us in the back. Is the knee injury just not healed yet, or is it pretty much over for him?
     
  14. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Re: Bad Move

    Just like Colorado, we have no leverage in this deal. They have the rights to Vanney and Needham without having to keep them on the roster. They can walk away from the deal with nothing but a missed opportunity.

    We're the team with the crises in defense. We need to get a deal done or we're going to be hurting in another month.

    That makes us desperate and gives them leverage.

    I agree that if we could have kept Harden for an extra 20k we would be fools not to do it. But from the sound of it, it would have to be bigger money than that to get him to change his mind.
     
  15. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I'm just going by the Ives report (so take it for what it's worth) but he said that X reported to camp looking old and slow which was a source of concern for the Galaxy staff.
     
  16. Spry

    Spry Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    Pasadena
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I remember Xavier getting burned on multiple occasions. He's too slow but perhaps still better than some of our options. Even though the defense still looks suspect, I'd say the front office is desperately searching for players that can help this team win now. And I'm not sure I disagree with the strategy.
    Vanney is a better option that Kirk. Who cares about next year or the year after. We'll trade again to be competative. Moreover and contrary to popular belief, players don't need years with each other to gel. All it takes is a good manager. The jury is still out on ours.
     
  17. shirteesdotnet

    Feb 13, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dont think X is out of the team. Maybe he will have to battle a bit for a starting spot now, but it sounds as if he is still on. Why wouldnt he be? He owes us a year in his contract!
     
  18. KennyWoo

    KennyWoo Member

    May 21, 2007
    Pasadena, California
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess the thought is that if you are going to lose guys out of your back line, you might as well lose the whole back line at once?

    Babayaro - Vanney - Roberts/Jazic - Franklin/Klein

    I guess at times 2 of the 4 slots will be filled by guys we had last year. 3 of the 4 depending on what Mike Randolph's role is going to be - will he play LB when Babayaro is hungover from a night at Skybar?
     
  19. shirteesdotnet

    Feb 13, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. Sean...

    Sean... Member

    Jul 23, 2005
    Ireland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Harden is a smart guy. That would be a good move(financially) to go to Seattle, plus, in his soccer hiatus he can save enough money to be able to comfortably live in Seattle.
     
  21. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ignoring for the moment whether Vanney for Kirk is a good trade or not...

    Babayaro--Vanney--Roberts--Franklin

    That COULD be a very good backline (emphasis on could, of course). And, of course, you could take out Vanney and replace with X and get a similar model - an experienced veteran to anchor and control the backline, pacy outside players who can run up the flanks and Roberts, who despite the misgivings some have had about him, has proven to be a very good defender when limited to the simplified role of a man-marking back with no other duties (like when we kept trying to play him as a right back).

    If we can sign Needham to join Valentin, we regain the depth at central D we have lost with Harden going.

    Now, regarding the value of Vanney for Kirk, I have two questions--

    First, do we know that Kirk kept his GA status for this year? This is his third year in the league and I don't know how those things work. Second, I'm sure we offered them draft picks first, but if they only wanted allocation money or a player - what did we have to offer?

    Obviously not allocation money - we're already hurting on the salary cap front, so that means we were left with players. And don't say Vagenas. Who would want him with that amount of salary? Maybe Kelly Gray, maybe Kevin Harmse. Other than that, I don't see any players we could afford to give up to DC that they would want.

    And regarding the money issue, don't forget that allocation money can only be used to buy down the salaries of incoming players. So we can't use it to help us with the players we have, but we can use it for new guys. So we might be negotiating some sort of two-year contract with Vanney that has a much bigger first year salary (which we pay down with allocation money) and a much smaller second year (when it's all on the books as far as sal. cap issues).

    All that being said, I haven't seen X play yet this year, don't know how Kirk was fitting in with Ruud's plans, etc. so everything I'm saying is pure conjecture on my part.

    Which is pretty much all bigsoccer is, anyways....

    :)
     
  22. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wish Ty Harden all the best, and am sorry he wasn't happy here. When I look at the Lakers right now I feel hope that someday we will gel as a team. Who knows when.

    I am still regretting Ugo! We can expect our defense to suck this year & Cronin will really have to shine. I thought Vanney was done 2 years ago.... I know that's an exaggeration and he's still somewhat useful, but it looks like a desperation move on our part.
     
  23. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is another example, I'll point out, of Alexi being a bit backwards thinking.

    we need a striker -sign ruiz (was once great, now? It's questionable)

    Need a defender -Sign Vanney (Was once great, now?)

    Similar things could be said about Klein, Martino, Buddle

    Our pipeline of talent in seems to be only older Euro's we're familiar with from watching Euro soccer on tv.

    I'll say it again, it would be great to have a pipeline of cheap talent from central and south america. It's almost required now to navigate the salary cap and the MLS roster rules. Not having one is a bit of a disadvantage for us.
     
  24. iride_mybike

    iride_mybike Member

    Mar 31, 2004
    DFW
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with you 100%. Let's not forget that Roberts was supposed to be one of the top up and coming CB's in the league last season before injuries forced him out wide where he just is not that good. X and Vanney will be interchangeable. I would guess we wouldn't see them together very often. If we add Needham he can fill in out wide and in the middle and Valentin will not being forced to do too much too soon. A luxury Harden wasn't afforded last year. The way I see it, the loss of Harden may end up making us stronger in the back.
     
  25. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I'm pretty sure that Kirk is GA. They usually announce graduations and he was automatically protected in the expansion draft. I actually think this is his fourth year in the league, which typically means he would graduate next year even if he doesn't play.

    I'm not quite sure how the league will handle the rights to Harden. Since we made an offer to him, we may have his rights for this year and next year (in the same way the DC had Needham's rights for 2007 and 2008 even though he never played for them). This would mean he would have to sit out two years.
     

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