If it wasn't for the salary cap issue I'd be ok with the trade. I didn't like Kirk at all last year and we need a CB. I just don't like the fact that our CB's are going to be old and slow. That scares me a little. Whose going to play for X when we play on turf?
Re: Bad Move So what should we do? We start up the preseason and suddenly our two starting centerbacks are gone (assuming X isn't going to cut it). We're cap constrained so we weren't hunting for defenders overseas. Instead, we did the smart thing and tried to get defenders through the draft. So, now we don't have the option to look internationally for defenders (it's getting late, we are just starting to scout South America, and they'll be expensive anyway). Who's going to be willing to trade us a starting defender at this point? It's basically going to be Vanney or nothing. DC got a very good deal (and all credit to them with their recent trades) giving up someone they were going to cut anyway for a generation addidas player. But just because it was a good trade for them doesn't mean it's a bad trade for us. IMO, Kirk will never be a starter for us. He has athleticism but no skills and I doubt he's Ruud's kind of player. As JoeW said, he was a cheap backup, and we need those. But he's probably what we have that can be traded and has trade value. Better him than Sesay.
Jay Needham - 6'2" centerback from SMU - drafted by DC in the 3rd round last year - many draft pundits had him going higher. Opted to sign with Puerto Rico in USL instead of with DC since he would have had to start on the team with a developmental contract. He was USL Rookie of the Year last year.
Re: Bad Move Alexi is an idiot. Harden leaving tough break. Why give DCU anything for Vanney? Vanney has somewhere between -1 and 1 good seasons left. Maybe we could trade Roberts for Jay Needham's rights? Alexi is an idiot. Kirk had injury problems, but didn't take a senior roster spot or count against the salary cap, and when healthy has shown potential as cover at RB and RM (especially as a second half sub his long strides and speed he was eating up defenses at the end of 2006). Alexi is an idiot. Harden signed at $50K would have given us more quality minutes over the next two years than Vanney will and at half the cost. If Harden's decision to leave had anything to do with salary it proves that Alexi is an idiot. Too bad this didn't happen earlier - before I renewed my season tickets. I am an idiot.
Why are we sweating these moves? Harden although young and inexpensive, while showing promise because of his size was marginal at best. Yes, this does deplete our depth in an otherwise lacking position. Harden is no great loss. Kirk, has oft-been injured and has shown lacked the pace necessary to be a difference maker. Also, with the inevitable roster additions of: Babayaro, Alvaro and Needham, I'm actually quite in favor of the Galaxies recent moves. In terms of salary cap, we should be fine. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. The cap in accordance to popular belief is set at $ 2.4 Mil, while the front office recently stated we had an additional $ 800 K in allocation monies. Meaning we had a total of $ 3.2 Mil to spend on salaries. As the current roster stands (with some assumptions, using last years salaries), it seems we should be fine in terms of salary. Once again, please correct me if I have made a mistake. Goalkeepers Cronin [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']34,728.75[/font] Alamo (Dev) 17,700 Higgins (Dev) 17,700 Defense Jazic (SI) 108,000 Randolph (Dev) 17,700 Roberts 30,000 Vanney 216,667 Xavier (SI) 156,000 Franklin (Dev) 17,700 Needham 52,500 Valentin (Dev) 17,700 Midfielders Beckham (SI) 400,000 Gray 85,000 Harmse (SI) 40,800 Klein 180,000 Martino 52,500 Tuedela (Dev) 17,700 Vagenas 131,250 Babayaro (SI) 90,000 Alvaro (SI) 90,000 Forwards Buddle 140,000 Donovan 400,000 Gordon 30,870 Ruiz (SI) 325,000 Sesay 45,000 Allen (Dev) 17,700 The sum total of all the salaries above is $ 2,732,215.75, below the estimated dollar amount available to us. Obviously, I'm estimating in certain instances. Can't see Vagenas and Vanney signed at their past salaries, we should be seeing a decreased salary in both of their cases. Both Babayaro and Alves, I'm giving reasonable MLS salaries, although both could well demand larger salaries. Minimum Development contract are given to Alamo, Allen ,Franklin and Valentin. I used Martino's contract figure as a basis for Needham's salary as estimate, Needham may also command a larger contract. With this being said, I see much improvement from last years team and look forward to the commencement of this season.
Wow, if Albright, Harden are gone, Jazic's out with an injury and Xavier MIGHT be gone. Are we ever going to "Gel"?
Re: Bad Move Sure, maybe Kirk won't start for us, but why give him up if you don't have to? Do you think we're going to find 10 DEV players who might actually see the field to put on our roster? A guy like Kirk is one who could be a DEV player and actually contribute. Both Vanney and Needham are guys who DCU WAS NOT bringing in and moreover they are guys who they way they were handled by DCU probably have absolutely no desire to play for DCU even if they were wanted. The offer should have been a couple of supplemental draft picks. You want more? Then forget it. Just like Colorado - DCU has absolutely no leverage in this deal. A fair deal would have been us trading Veris and Pavon for Vanney and Needham.
And another thing ... it is apparent immediately that there is something seriously wrong with MLS and/or the LA Galaxy when you read this thread title: "Harden Retired? Vanney In?" How the h*ll does this title not read: "Vanney Retired. Harden In Form."
We have so many developmental players that are getting screwed, and I'm not someone who expects them to pay these guys more than what they do 1st season. The problem is none of them are getting raises this year, so why not not do something better with your college education than make 17k a year. See: Harden deserved a raise. Randolph deserves a raise, but they aren't getting it because we want cap room to bring in the old timers. geesh
I have seen some alluding to X being gone. What's the problem, I know he is older, but when healthy he did a good job for us in the back. Is the knee injury just not healed yet, or is it pretty much over for him?
Re: Bad Move Just like Colorado, we have no leverage in this deal. They have the rights to Vanney and Needham without having to keep them on the roster. They can walk away from the deal with nothing but a missed opportunity. We're the team with the crises in defense. We need to get a deal done or we're going to be hurting in another month. That makes us desperate and gives them leverage. I agree that if we could have kept Harden for an extra 20k we would be fools not to do it. But from the sound of it, it would have to be bigger money than that to get him to change his mind.
I'm just going by the Ives report (so take it for what it's worth) but he said that X reported to camp looking old and slow which was a source of concern for the Galaxy staff.
I remember Xavier getting burned on multiple occasions. He's too slow but perhaps still better than some of our options. Even though the defense still looks suspect, I'd say the front office is desperately searching for players that can help this team win now. And I'm not sure I disagree with the strategy. Vanney is a better option that Kirk. Who cares about next year or the year after. We'll trade again to be competative. Moreover and contrary to popular belief, players don't need years with each other to gel. All it takes is a good manager. The jury is still out on ours.
I dont think X is out of the team. Maybe he will have to battle a bit for a starting spot now, but it sounds as if he is still on. Why wouldnt he be? He owes us a year in his contract!
I guess the thought is that if you are going to lose guys out of your back line, you might as well lose the whole back line at once? Babayaro - Vanney - Roberts/Jazic - Franklin/Klein I guess at times 2 of the 4 slots will be filled by guys we had last year. 3 of the 4 depending on what Mike Randolph's role is going to be - will he play LB when Babayaro is hungover from a night at Skybar?
I thought this was interesting.. http://sidelineviews.blogspot.com/2008/02/random-thoughts.html Basically, Harden might take a year off of MLS and re-sign with Seattle once they come into the fold so he can be closer to family and friends. Makes sense to me.
Harden is a smart guy. That would be a good move(financially) to go to Seattle, plus, in his soccer hiatus he can save enough money to be able to comfortably live in Seattle.
Ignoring for the moment whether Vanney for Kirk is a good trade or not... Babayaro--Vanney--Roberts--Franklin That COULD be a very good backline (emphasis on could, of course). And, of course, you could take out Vanney and replace with X and get a similar model - an experienced veteran to anchor and control the backline, pacy outside players who can run up the flanks and Roberts, who despite the misgivings some have had about him, has proven to be a very good defender when limited to the simplified role of a man-marking back with no other duties (like when we kept trying to play him as a right back). If we can sign Needham to join Valentin, we regain the depth at central D we have lost with Harden going. Now, regarding the value of Vanney for Kirk, I have two questions-- First, do we know that Kirk kept his GA status for this year? This is his third year in the league and I don't know how those things work. Second, I'm sure we offered them draft picks first, but if they only wanted allocation money or a player - what did we have to offer? Obviously not allocation money - we're already hurting on the salary cap front, so that means we were left with players. And don't say Vagenas. Who would want him with that amount of salary? Maybe Kelly Gray, maybe Kevin Harmse. Other than that, I don't see any players we could afford to give up to DC that they would want. And regarding the money issue, don't forget that allocation money can only be used to buy down the salaries of incoming players. So we can't use it to help us with the players we have, but we can use it for new guys. So we might be negotiating some sort of two-year contract with Vanney that has a much bigger first year salary (which we pay down with allocation money) and a much smaller second year (when it's all on the books as far as sal. cap issues). All that being said, I haven't seen X play yet this year, don't know how Kirk was fitting in with Ruud's plans, etc. so everything I'm saying is pure conjecture on my part. Which is pretty much all bigsoccer is, anyways....
I wish Ty Harden all the best, and am sorry he wasn't happy here. When I look at the Lakers right now I feel hope that someday we will gel as a team. Who knows when. I am still regretting Ugo! We can expect our defense to suck this year & Cronin will really have to shine. I thought Vanney was done 2 years ago.... I know that's an exaggeration and he's still somewhat useful, but it looks like a desperation move on our part.
This is another example, I'll point out, of Alexi being a bit backwards thinking. we need a striker -sign ruiz (was once great, now? It's questionable) Need a defender -Sign Vanney (Was once great, now?) Similar things could be said about Klein, Martino, Buddle Our pipeline of talent in seems to be only older Euro's we're familiar with from watching Euro soccer on tv. I'll say it again, it would be great to have a pipeline of cheap talent from central and south america. It's almost required now to navigate the salary cap and the MLS roster rules. Not having one is a bit of a disadvantage for us.
I agree with you 100%. Let's not forget that Roberts was supposed to be one of the top up and coming CB's in the league last season before injuries forced him out wide where he just is not that good. X and Vanney will be interchangeable. I would guess we wouldn't see them together very often. If we add Needham he can fill in out wide and in the middle and Valentin will not being forced to do too much too soon. A luxury Harden wasn't afforded last year. The way I see it, the loss of Harden may end up making us stronger in the back.
I'm pretty sure that Kirk is GA. They usually announce graduations and he was automatically protected in the expansion draft. I actually think this is his fourth year in the league, which typically means he would graduate next year even if he doesn't play. I'm not quite sure how the league will handle the rights to Harden. Since we made an offer to him, we may have his rights for this year and next year (in the same way the DC had Needham's rights for 2007 and 2008 even though he never played for them). This would mean he would have to sit out two years.