F***in' a. What a let down. My biggest gripe of the game (sorry if it's been mentioned, I skimmed the match thread) was how isolated Tevez was. Ready or not, it seemed that at least Welbeck should have been on the bench to be brought on either at halftime or soon thereafter. A striker is going to have an easier time slotting in like that then any other position, and if he nicks a goal, all the better. Tevez is completely uneffective on his own up front like he was on Sunday. I think the whole Park/Nani debate should be put to rest after the match as well. Park's addition changed the game and it's a shame he wasn't starting. Park > Nani.
On the Park/Nani issue, Nani is more suited as an impact player right now. The one thing I am really annoyed about these days is our major lack of threat on corners despite having Rio, Vidic and Ronaldo in the team(our susceptibility on corners these days is a completely different story). Half the corners are taken short and nothing ever comes out of it, Giggs' delivery has gone down a few notches. The only corners we seem to score on are Nani's near-post ones. And we always have been a threat on corners.
How are you defining "impact"? To be honest I hate to slate Giggs but I never once did the "sit up in excited anticipation" when I saw he was lining up a corner. His deliveries lacked paced, and were just looped over the box. Nani should be taking the corners if he is on the field.
Someone who can be brought in late in a game, someone who has the potential to something unexected or exploit a tiring defense.
I've been reading over at Redcafe. The player bashing is really bad. They say that the players didn't try, didn't care, etc. I think that's unfair, and a long term problem*. I said somewhere else that expectations were too high for a team that had to play Vidic as a striker. I really think that looking at the team and seeing that there's no planning for the end of the season (again!) will cause some of the players to rethink whether they want to stay at the club. I'm probably just overly pessimistic (because I'm still bent out of shape about the game AND catching a cold). But, at this point, does anything think that Giggs is having any fun? Or needs the money? Maybe Tevez is wondering why he can't a day off when he's so tired his legs won't move. Ronaldo seems to be permanently treated as 'what have you done for me lately' and blamed for not showing up any time a game is lost no matter how many games he's won. Maybe he's wondering why there wasn't a striker on the field in that game since the game was so important to the fans. Scholes never seemed like the type to hang around after he can't play his best -- suppose he looks at that game and calls it a day. I guess I've moved into blaming the management (SAF) for not taking any steps to fix the obvious problems. Like there's an award for blundering through playing your defender as a striker, and your SS as a striker, and your world class winger as a SS, and hoping that a miracle occurs and they score. * maybe I'm overstating. Maybe Redcafe is inhabited by a bunch of 11 yo's with no clue and a lot of time on their hands, and they don't really represent the Man Utd fan base at all. I really hope so.
If this was truly a case of the players just being tired, then we are going to win sweet FA this year. If you can't get up for a game like Sunday's.... Title challenge on the line Manc Derby Chance for Citeh to "do a double" on us Fcukin' Munich! Forget Europe if this is the best we can do with tired legs in frickin February... By the way, I know people want to blame Fergie for all kinds of things, and yes, he's a stubborn SOB, but he's our stubborn SOB. If Queiroz is here to help with tactics, then he's not doing a good enough job. If Fergie wanted to bring in another player or two in January, he's stuck, cause if he mentions a word about not getting funds to strengthen the team, then his job is on the line cause the Glazers would be the target of god knows what if he did that. Fergie doesn't want to be in Rafa's shoes, that's for sure. All in all, we may have lacked another striker on Sunday, but we lacked much more than that. Neville would have went ballistic, you've seen him in derbies before. Keep going with that.... what would Keano have done? Cantona? Bruce? Sparky? Robson? Charlton? NOBODY, ESPECIALLY MANCHESTER CITY!!!, comes in our house and does that to us on a day like Sunday was supposed to be. We've got no leadership on the pitch, we lack spark, we lack fight, we lack fighting spirit. Now, those aren't just English or British qualities, but the club was built with that type of character and soul, oh dear me, have we traded it all in for relying on "flair players" to snatch wins? Even when we do win, it seems we let other teams play, and we rely on catching them on the break or a set piece. What the hell has gone wrong with my club!?!?!?!? Yeah, yeah, "calm down Ian, it was only 1 result, don't give up yet".... Yeah, maybe so, but if you can't get pissed off after that shower of shite, when can ya?
We're going through a bad patch right now as we typically do in most seasons. I'm glad it is happening now and now in March/April so all is not lost. I'm still not a believer in the Arsenal revolution and I still think they are prone to dropping points along the way. Of course the backlash will start on Saturday, Rooney and Evra back, Saha and Gary are miraclesy healed, Ole comes out of retirement and all is right with the world. Come on guys, chin up and look forward to knocking Arsenal off their f**king perch on Saturday. Out of adversary comes greatness and thats what we'll see.
Motterman, you capture my feelings perfectly. I just won't accept this loss. I wont. We'll never have another 50th aniversary remembrance game...EVER and this is what happens? How the team let us down. I can't believe the team didn't absolutely hammer City. No one was flying in for tackles. I mean, shit, Ronaldo at least get your slicked up hair messed up for ONE game dude, get stuck in, jump with Micah Richards and Dunne for some aerial balls or something. I'm just so bitterly disappointed in the team and it shows that some of our young talents still have a LONG way to go in maturing and handling pressure cooker situations.
I don't think it's anything to do with the quality of the players or tired legs. Fergie and Queiroz simply got the tactics wrong. Eriksson is nothing if not pragmatic with his tactics and approach and you'll never see a team of his going at it all guns blazing, but our set-up against City played right into their hands on the day. Far too many "magicians" on the pitch and not enough retainers. People say Scholes is a retainer but he's not. Not in the same way that Carrick or Hargreaves sit back and protect the defence. One of those two should ahve started in my opinion. Our midfield and attack was Ronaldo, Nani, Scholes, Anderson, Tevez and Giggs. There you have 6 essentially attack minded players, none of which are direct centre forwards or defensive players, all of which are withdrawn attackers or wingers. Far too many creators and no finisher of any kind. Tevez is still a deep lying attacker and looked isolated all afternoon. Whenever one received the ball the only player ahead of him was Tevez who was marked by two defenders all afternoon. Saha and Rooney could have made a diffeerence but if I was going to pick a midfield and attack I'd have gone for Ronaldo, Giggs, Hargreaves, Anderson, with Tevez and Rooney/Saha up front. With those two not available I might have gone with Ronaldo up top and Nani on the right but really Hargreaves or Carrick should have started in my humble opinion....
According to the Top Reds on Red Issue the RedCafe site is populated by specky 11 year old Out Of Town (OOT) Jonny Come Latelys (JCLs). Big Soccer is obviously populated by yank JCLs who don't have a clue about football. I don't think any one board is a valid representation of the whole United fanbase. RedCafe probably comes closer than most though.
I'm still quite sore about this one. I don't know if what was tired legs or not, but we were tactically beaten in this match by SVE. Tevez made an admirable attempt to plow a lone furrow, but when we didn't see it resulting in anything, Welbeck should have been brought on. Yet the boy didn't even make the squad. I know it's a big game, pressure cooker, etc. - but Campbell came on in the last Citeh match at the Council house and did a decent job. Why not have the same faith in Welbeck? At the 9 position, it's not like we're even asking that much - just hold it up for seconds to let the others get forward. That is much harder than it sounds, I know, but if Fergie had faith in the kid - why not play him in the last 20-30? Giggs made no impact - Welbeck could have come on for him. I'd much rather start games with Park now, who can provide midfield stability and good running, then bring Nani on late in games where we might need some livewire sparks, pops on goal, etc. Park settles our midfield - it was so obvious when he came on late in the match. When the midfield is settled, we can get better positions for the attacking players, even if Tevez has to do it himself. Nani can come on late, if we're drawing or losing, to have a couple long shots, etc. Really disappointed in the squad. I don't care what it is, if you can't get up for Sunday - which was all the things Motterman said - than what are you gonna be up for?
BTW - just a followup on the scarf Ebay controversy. I actually contacted some of the people auctioning them off before their auctions were pulled to offer them a reasonable flat payment for the scarf. I respect everyone's opinion on this and am not going to get into a slagging match over this. My reasoning for wanting one was simple...it would be an honor for me to have one. Maybe I am a JCL supporter having signed on in 1989, living in the US, been to OT but never been to a match except exhibitions here in the States. Whatever. This is my club, and the scarves are mementos of the most important and defining moment in it's history. Like I said, and can t say it enough, is that IMHO it is an honor to posses one. If these people don't want them then they should go to people who do, ticket holders or not. I guess I look at it as adopting an unwanted child that deserves a good home.
Still gutted. Not only did the City do a double on us this season, West Ham (!!) stands to do a quadruple as of right now. "Arsenal still have to come to Old Trafford and go to Chelsea. I think it will go to the wire." - Sir Alex Ferguson (on the official website today). Not if our shit-spells continue to crop up out of nowhere, it won't... but you keep telling yourself that and see how well that works out... Sometimes I wish SAF stood a possibility of being fired. Not to fire him, but to keep him honest. I see this one as a managerial failure to a large extent. I hope yesterday's Arsenal match was a required watching - because they look scary.
What can you say in this match but that we played into the oppositions hands? As has been constantly said here, there is no plan B. City played their tactics well. It's embarrassing, but you gotta commend Sven and their players. They played it as if it was a derby. I won't go and say it was tired legs. We were simply not allowed to play our typical game due to injuries, suspensions, and the playing of players out of position. They stuffed the midfield, which in effect stuffed the back. None of our attacking players ever had room. There were so many players back that Tevez always had Dunne AND Richards all over him. Ronaldo was never able to create space until he played on the wing. Scholes and Anderson were always just swarmed. I do believe that Anderson had some good play, getting out of tackles and being able to play it forward. He didn't have a great game, but he was unperturbed by the size of the game. It is much more than I could say for other players. I'm glad this kid is here. Anderson is my homeboy! I don't want to be too premature on this...I feel that Giggs needs to earn his spot. He hasn't looked up to par recently and I feel that his "ghost apparition" act needs to be put aside for a bit. Rio had the worst game I've ever seen him have. Not only was he individually rank, but the backline's shape was constantly falling apart. There was no leadership out there. But ultimately, the blame needs to go to the management. They had no answer for City. Fergie took much too long to make changes. There was no striker on the bench. Relying on Saha (Suck Faha! I started that and have not gone back on it.) was the single-handedly most stupid decision I've ever seen management do. Signing Manucho knowing that he was unlikely to feature was silly. Hyping up Welbeck....I don't get them, sometimes. City did us in. You can't give them enough credit for that. EDIT: It bugged the hell out of me to see Nani wearing the #6 kit.
i swear i did not know who the ********ing captain was until i saw the armband on giggs , i think we really need that dirty player and i dont think that hargreavs is the one. I was looking around during the game seeing where the captain was , was it rio , scholes, giggs(which he was), there is no leadership, i remember watching roy keane killing with dirtyness the talk the cursing we need somebody like that, everyteam has one look at chelsea mikel, arsenal flamini, liverpool the leader gerrard....