Which soccer leagues are increasing ?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Catel, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Catel

    Catel Member

    Dec 18, 2006
    Lyon, France
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I would say Russian and Ukrainian leagues first, which suffered of the end of the USSR and are now getting back with clubs owned by billionnaires oligarchs (of course their money is honest ! Because if you demonstrate the contrary, you're dead).

    English league too, of course, but I don't want to speak about that.

    The Romanian League seem to come back from nowhere according to their UEFA rank (26th in 2004, 6th today).
     
  2. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A better title would be Which soccer leagues are getting better?

    English Premiership (more money = more talents)
    MLS
    J-league
    Russian Premier League
    Ukrainian
    Australia's A-league
    Mexico's FMF (more money = more South American talents)
     
  3. Cirdan

    Cirdan Member

    Sep 12, 2007
    Jena (Germany)
    AFAIK the Romanian league is similar to the Ukrainean and Russian leagues, billionaires are putting a lot of money into the clubs.

    Greece and Turkey are also having a pretty good season in the European competitions, especially with Turkey I've waited for years for this to happen, since the big clubs have a lot of money and fans, and are occasionally able to pull some notable transfers (eg Lincoln, Appiah).

    I'm also hoping that the German Bundesliga is increasing. Basically because of off-pitch-things: I have the impression that they are getting over the serious debt problems of some big clubs (Dortmund, Schalke, Hertha, HSV) that followed the Kirch bancrupcy, but also several clubs stated that they want to adapt to a more rapid, attacking style. So far with mixed success, but if it works, we will see some fine football in Germany in the future and hopefully better runs in the CL.
     
  4. CACuzcatlan

    CACuzcatlan Member

    Jun 11, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS is rapidly increasing. Record attendance last year. Big name signings, higher quality players, lots of South American talent on the cheap, teams getting their own stadiums for increased revenue, expansion is going really well, Toronto sold out all but 1 game last season, Seattle has already sold more than 10,000 season tickets for 2009, more media interest, and a serious possibility of an MLS team winning CONCACAF and going to the Club World Cup.
     
  5. JoeCole#8

    JoeCole#8 New Member

    Jan 24, 2008
    Melbourne
    The A League in Aus is going very strong . Football is the seconf biggest sport in Aus now :} . Look out 2012 WC:D
     
  6. Wezza

    Wezza Member

    Sep 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    A-League is definitely on the up, attendances & interest have increases nicely over the past 3 seasons. 2 new teams will more than likely enter the league next season.

    JoeCole#8, i'm not so sure it's the 2nd sport in the country quite yet. NRL still has higher average attendances over more teams. I hope it overtakes AFL though! :)
     
  7. CACuzcatlan

    CACuzcatlan Member

    Jun 11, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know you weren't being completely serious, but doesn't it have a much better chance of overtaking NRL than AFL?


    Does anyone know how it compares to in popularity to cricket and rugby union in Australia?

    I know soccer in the USA is a long way from even touching the big 4 leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL) but I hope one day we can be where the NHL is now.
     
  8. Wezza

    Wezza Member

    Sep 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    It does have a better chance of overtaking NRL average attendances, though the NRL has double the amount of teams in the comp compared to the A-League. We need to get more teams in the A-League & fast. We are probably getting 2 new teams next season, which is good.

    I only said i hope it overtakes AFL because i think it's a ridiculous game. lol ;)
     
  9. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Look the fact is, is that in Australia. the problem is.

    1. No money. A-League has dog all money in comparison to other federations. Meaning they cannot deal in good players from other countries easily cause there's no money. Sydney FC for example has something like a budget of $6.5 million. Which is rubbish and they're one of the more wealthier teams. There's not many people who would invest in an A-League club, especially wealthy people.


    2. Not enough teams. A-League has 8 teams I think. only 7 of which are Australian. Obviously there's no promotion, relegation cause there's not enough teams. Meaning a bad team in A-League can keep getting worse and if they have enough money, other good clubs will have to keep playing them.

    3. 3 more popular sports. AFL, has been around for over 100 years and you will never see crowds below 20000 unless its played in Tasmania. Crowds range from 20,000-100,000. It's HUGE in australia. And frankly its a pretty good spectator sport. NRL, Rugby league, popular in Queensland and NSW. Again huge in parts of Australia.

    And ofcourse, cricket. Cricket is big in Australia. The Australian Test team plays about 5-6 tests a season in Australia (a test is 5 days long) all of them broadcasted on TV. They also play a huge one-day series with two other teams in AUstralia. This year its India and Sri Lanka (two very good countries at cricket). Cricket is all over the sports news in summer.

    4. Lack of grassroots coaching. Because of the limited budgets of A-League clubs, none of them have youth academy's. So they cannot develop talent in Australia and will not be able to sustain a high standard league based on Australian players if they don't improve this.

    5. Lack of media coverage. A-League is broadcasted on foxsports. A pay-tv service. Most people in Australia don't have Austar or Foxsports so can't watch A-League.

    That's why I think that the improvement of A-League is overrated and it's improvement will slow down soon.

    But that being said, its a million times better than the old NSL league. which was rubbish.
     
  10. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    J.League on the other hand.

    1. Good money. Most clubs are backed by huge car corporations who can poor big money into their clubs and cause they're backed by car companies, they're never going to be in danger of going bankrupt. Urawa Red Diamonds for example, is owned by Mitsubishi motors. As a result they have a yearly budget of about $65 million. The richest in Asia and richer than many clubs in Europe too. Yokohama F. Marinos are owned by Nissan, then there's Kawasaki Frontale, Nagoya Grampus are owned by Toyota.

    2. There's two professional divisions of soccer in J.League. 18 clubs in J1, and 14 in J2. Also there's an amateur league called JFL. There's a promotion/relegation system between J1 and J2. and if requirements are met, a JFL team can be promoted to J2.

    3. Only baseball to compete with in terms of popularity. And soccer is getting very very popular in Japan. Not quite as popular as baseball but getting close.

    4. I think most, if not all, J.league clubs have a fairly extensive youth academy. With U12, u15 leagues in japan. On top of that, Universities and High Schools can play in one of the cup competitions against professional teams. So players can be scouted easier.

    5. Soccer in Japan is broadcast well. Especially J.League.


    J.League is a WAY more promising league for the future.

    On top of that, there are heaps more clubs that are going to be made in the future. They'll be 50 in about 15 years.

    J.League is 'increasing'.
     
  11. Wezza

    Wezza Member

    Sep 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    You're not completely correct.

    1. The league is 3 years old, the more interest that it creates, the more money it will spin. Baby steps first mate.

    2. Like i said, it is likely 2 new teams will enter the comp next season or at the latest, the following year. More will follow with 3 to 5 years after that.

    3. I'll give you that one. But you have to be blind to not notice the increased interest in the league this year?

    4. Central Coast Mariners have a youth academy set up. Other teams will be setting them up in future as well. Plus, it is the most widely played sport at grass roots level in Australia, bar none.

    5. Alot of people have pay tv. You would be VERY suprised. But i agree it could benifit from some FTA coverage. I think it might come in a limited way in the next few seasons if a FTA station can strike a deal with Fox Sports.

    The J-League isn't that far ahead considering how long it has been established & also the population base behind it. Do you remember the ACL?? Sydney v Urawa?? 2-2 in Sydney, then 0-0 in Japan?

    Stop being so anti-Australian football.
     
  12. sidis

    sidis Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Itaguaí-RJ - Brazil
    i will sound controversial but i think brazilian league is increasing.

    for a long analisys we are decreasing (80's to now) but since 2005 we are improve marketing, attendance, broadcasting, sponsorships contracts and bring good players from other south america countries and brazilians abroad.
     
  13. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan

    1. fair enough. But when MLS started, they got a superstar (no longer at his peak), Pele to play, recently to spark more interest, they got Beckham. When J.League started, they got several huge players, particularly, Zico. Cause the federations and teams had owners with good financial muscle. In the international community, Football is worth loads of money and you can't be a true participant without a few bucks in your pocket. Just so you know, the wealthiest A-League team ( i think its Melbourne Victory) has a smaller budget than the poorest J2 team.

    2. True, and nothing would make me happier for a place like Tasmania to have a team. I would personally focus on giving smaller communities a team. Like Kalgoolie (sorry for my spelling there) or Hobart or Geelong.

    3. u already agreed.

    4. Ok, my mistake about CCM only. But about grassroots games. Yes, from about the ages of 7-12, Soccer is the biggest sport, cause its non-contact so schools don't hesitate to let the kids play. But from about 13 onwards, you notice that kids drop out of it dramatically. The ones that continue with sport usually go to a regional aussie rules club or cricket club or tennis or whatever. Some stick with soccer and that's great, I'm just saying that the level immediately above grassroots doesn't have as many players.

    That's why youth academies or future ones need to find the talent when the kids about 8-10 years old. You'll find CCM will reap the benefits of their current academy (i'm not sure how extensive it is cause I didn't know it existed) in about 8 years time and that's great.

    5. Yes a lot of people do have Pay TV. But seriously, more people don't. And many of those people (myself included) would watch A-League if it was on SBS or whatever on free-tv, I can only see it at friends places or whatever.


    Seriously, Urawa Red Diamonds are leagues better than the best A-League side. Jef United Chiba would be a more equal match for Melbourne victory. Don't even try to compare an A-League team to Urawa cause there's no way to win. If you just think about it, you'll understand why.


    Now, Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying A-League is complete rubbish, its a more prosperous league than the K-League. but I'm saying that it the following things above don't get fixed, A-league won't grow as quickly as you make it out to. FOX is basically funding the A-League by itself. through media and whatever. But in AFL for example. If you come to Australia (although I guess you live here) and ask anyone you can find which AFL team they support, 85% of them or more will give you a team name. Because it's not isolated to those with fox tv.




    Now I'm not a hater of Australian football, and it all might've seemed a bit confronting but I'm just saying the facts (admittedly I did get a thing or two wrong, for that my bad).
     
  14. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    J.League clubs are professional clubs.

    A-League teams (with the exception of CCM) are just professional teams


    Urawa would consist of : 1st team, reserve team, Ladies team, U17 team, U15 team, U12 team, and youth academy. top class training facilities called redsland, a 64,000 capacity stadium (Saitama Stadium), an average home crowd of about 48,000 and a 1st team operation budget of $65 million. Urawa has branches of shops dedicated to their own team and their own merchandise, dvd's etc. It also has its own TV channel which is viewable in Saitama. Urawa has hardcore fans willing to travel across the continent in AFC CL to support their team. Urawa has such a great fanbase with brilliant chants and organisation, a club like Manchester Utd would be proud to have them. Urawa also can learn financial techniques from Bayern Munchen as they are financial affiliates. both teams are known as 'The Reds'

    Urawa's infrastructure is very complete and because of the above, they will never cease to be bad club cause now they've done all the hard work.

    Urawa Red Diamonds are a football club which can take its future into its own hands.

    Sydney FC is just its First team squad maybe a reserve team with $6 million to work with, with a stadium that's admittedly fairly good (to the credit of AFL and NRL Sydney FC can now inherit that too) . With fairly good attendances.


    But Sydney FC isn't a proper club. Some day it hopefully will have the infrastructure in place for it to become a real professional football club but not yet. For now, it's gotta just scout through the regional leagues in NSW to find talent. But it can't bring up its own talent from an early age.

    Again, I'm just saying the facts.
     
  15. FC Arizona

    FC Arizona Member

    Jan 9, 2008
    Tucson AZ
     
  16. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    my mistake. Then what was MLS's big opening idea? or didn't it really happen?
     
  17. FC Arizona

    FC Arizona Member

    Jan 9, 2008
    Tucson AZ
    Thats debatable. For me its all good, for others its not enough: MLS holds the contracts for all players, limited growth, move to SSS, expansion drafts for new franchises, team salary caps. New changes: DP slot s(Beckam rule), increased foreign players allowed, especially from S America.

    Unfortunately, as the league has gotten a higher profile, out better players are moving to European countries for more dinero.
     
  18. Wezza

    Wezza Member

    Sep 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    And so they should be, J-League is a much more established league. But again, it's hard to ignore those ACL results.


    I never said the A-League was growing like crazy, but it is on the up. There is no denying that fact.
     
  19. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Finally. I completely agree.

    It is on the up. I'm saying, for it to continue a degree of growth and to get from where it is now, to an established league, several things need to be done, and depending on how the FFA go about doing those, then the A-League might or might not become a good league.

    But for good news. The person who sort of shaped the J.League, current JFA president Saburo Kawabuchi, is overlooking all leagues and helping them develop in a project called vision asia. So hopefully he and the rest of that department of the AFC will help A-League become an established league.

    But my biggest concern is where the money's going to come from cause there's plenty of wealthy people and companies in Australia, but are there any that are up for owning a club. Lets hope so.
     
  20. kankeri-redded

    kankeri-redded Red Card

    Feb 1, 2008
  21. Gold is the Colour

    Dec 17, 2005
    Perth Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    My only gripe with this list is that I would have said that Mexico was already a "big" league. 15 years ago USA, Japan, Australia did not exist in their current form and Russia would have been very different as well. Substitute China for Mexico.
     
  22. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Celtic
    Scotland
    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    the SPL (scottish league) is on the way up again. this has been personified both in the national teams recent performances in a very tough EURO qualifying group and also in the SPL teams performances in europe.

    for the first time in a very long time scotland had three representatives still in european competition after christmas.

    celtic have made it through to the champions league knockout round for the second consecutive year from a group consisting of milan, benfica and shakhtar donetsk. they've strengthened in the january window with the signing of andreas hinkel and new japanese starlet koki mizuno. georgias samaras also joined on loan and scottish international barry robson signed as well.

    after a good start to a tough group rangers fell at the final hurdle at home to lyon but finished 3rd in the group and dropped into the UEFA cup where they will play panathinaikos.

    aberdeen got through their UEFA group by hammering fc copenhagen in their last game at pittodrie. they will now face german giants bayern in the next round.

    the national team has shot up the rankings and a lot of the players are still plying their trade in the SPL. barry ferguson, scott brown, stephen mcmanus, paul hartley to name a few.

    two other young international stars both left the SPL this season to join the EPL in big money deals. craig gordon became the most expensive keeper in EPL history when he moved to sunderland for £9mill at the start of the season and more recently alan hutton has just moved in the january transfer window from rangers to tottenham for a reported £8mill.
     
  23. golazo mvfc

    golazo mvfc New Member

    Jun 2, 2007
    Melbourne.
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    AKITOD


    Stop talking about A-League budgets.


    A-LEAGUE CLUBS OPERATE ON SALARY CAPS

    Yet still compete with Japanese clubs who spend much more on squads. Japanese league has been around for 10+ years, but finds it hard to beat teams from a 3 year league who spends 1/8th of what J-League teams spend.
     
  24. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    What leagues are increasing?

    The reason A-League clubs are on a salary cap is because you if they didn't have one, you would soon see a huge gap between the richer A-League clubs and the poorer clubs. Creating a huge gap in standard.

    Do you know why EPL, Serie , La Liga etc, are the best? Cause they are richest. They have the money to deal with any club they need to get the players they like. And for a recent league to get to the status of say the Bundesliga, they need 1: Money, 2: Youth academies and developement, 3: Popularity of the sport in the country, 4: Media coverage.

    Firstly. ON the ACL games against Sydney FC (the only games played between a J.League club and A-League club, you overexaggerating muppet) were 2-2 in Sydney an away game that that Sydney played well to get their point, in the other game in Saitama, 0-0, Urawa were playing for the draw. On top of that, both games they were missing first team players for example Marcus Tulio Tanaka.

    J.League is on the up. In the past few years, big european teams have come to europe with first team squads in preseason to play some of Asia's clubs. Usually flogging most of them 4-0 or so. But J.league clubs (even ones that weren't teh best at the time) were putting up a fight.

    e.g. Tokyo Verdy 3-0 Real Madrid
    Urawa Red Diamonds 1-0 Bayern Munchen
    Yokohama F. Marinos 0-1 FC Barcelona
    Urawa Red Diamonds 2-2 Manchester Utd
    Kashima Antlers 2-1 Manchester Utd
    Yokohama F Marinos 3-0 Celtic FC

    Those have all been in the last few years (2002- onwards)


    In competition

    Won ACL, 3rd in Club World Cup.

    In club world cup, Lost 1-0 to AC Milan in the same tournament that Milan beat Boca Juniors 4-2.

    They also drew with Etoile De Sahel or whatever 2-2 when Urawa played badly. Etoile beat Pachuca who are the North American champs.

    And all in the same season, they didn't win J.League. Meaning that there are numerous teams such as Kashima Antlers, YOkohama F Marinos, Urawa, Gamba Osaka, Kawasaki Frontale. That are all in similar territory in 1st team standard and so on. Many other clubs aren't too far away in standard.

    That's why J.League is the league that's most predominantly 'increasing'
    in Asia. Also one of the biggest 'increasers' in the world along with mexican league, MLS and some other leagues.

    THAT and everything else, is why money will hold A-League back. Cause in a few years (you can already see it as a Serbian was signed with a J.league club) you'll see J.League clubs dealing with european clubs on players more and more often. It'll start with transfers then loans etc. Cause it now has the money and financial muscle to buy players. In fact in the Japanese forums it says that FC Tokyo are talking with Juventus on signing Nedved for 5 million euros.
     
  25. golazo mvfc

    golazo mvfc New Member

    Jun 2, 2007
    Melbourne.
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Sydney were also out of season in ACL.

    Let's just agree that both leagues are on the up FFS, because they are.
     

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