Stop punishing well supported clubs!

Discussion in 'Toronto FC' started by vita666420, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    I completely understand the desire to make sure that the clubs in MLS are financially viable, especially with the history of N.A clubs and whatnot. I've always been less than gung-ho when buying tickets for TFC because this money is prob going to MLSE coffers, but I was reading an interesting article on the English League 2. Basically they have a salary cap, but the salary cap is 60% of turnover. More revenue= more salary cap. This ensures that clubs, do not overspend without better supported clubs turning into cash cows while owners point to the wage cap claiming they can't do anything. What do you guys thinks. I'm from that weird school of thought that maybe that club that sells out their stadium every week, should maybe have a higher potential salary than a stadium where you can here yourself echo. (well thats most of the other MLS stadiums even if they're full, but you catch my drift)
     
  2. TFC07

    TFC07 Member

    May 19, 2007
    Brampton, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Agreed. I hate this communist league. :mad:

    Why should Toronto be limited to spend how much money they want? Why should Toronto share their profit to rest of these MLS owners? I hope clubs like KC Wizards get kicked out of MLS. These guys are actually losing money instead of making money and using Toronto profits to cover their losses.
     
  3. Big Soccer Member

    Jan 16, 2008
    Surrey, England
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This systme would also stop arm chair fans. Hopefully, fans who watch every match live in the comfort of their living room will feel inclined to go to the matches in order to increase each clubs revenue, then salary cap then sucess. Sucess would bring more fans which would bring more sucess. This system would definitely increase attendances.
     
  4. CMAC

    CMAC New Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    The problem is that right now we need the less financially stable teams in the league right now. MLS is trying to promote the league and soccer in the US and needs teams in as many areas as possible, contracting the league would be a bad idea, as would letting the top teams win every year because they have more money to spend. The goal right now is to promote the league and the sport and eventually the cap will increase or will be removed, but it is important right now to make sure that the league stays alive.
     
  5. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    Were not talking about abandoning teams. There will still be sharing of TV rev, sponsorships etc. But if our team brings in 5 mill profit after that, wouldn't if be better if 60% was spent attracting better players. Raising the quality of the league, increasing number of eurosnob (I count myself among them, Fulham Forever!) fans. It has to be better for the league than owners like MLSE lining their pockets. And I know I'm among the few here, but I feel sorry for some of the players on the squad and their pathetic wages and I realize I'm in better financial position that some our squad and I'm an university student!
     
  6. CMAC

    CMAC New Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    It would be better for the more profitable teams, and I would love to see better quality players coming to Toronto, but right now the league is better off with all teams being equal. We dont have enough interest in the league right now, and having only a few teams with the best players wouldnt bring in more fans to the less profitable teams, the challenge right now is to bring in more fans to teams like KC and Columbus
     
  7. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It should also be considered that if lesser supported teams have too strong an imbalance as far as success goes, it could turn fans off the more supported teams.
     
  8. DrewVelvet

    DrewVelvet New Member

    Mar 1, 2007
    Etobicoke,Canada
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I think you should just have teams in cities where they will have
    a strong supporter base and get rid of those that don't show an
    interest in the sport. You can't create excitement when there is
    no will amongst a community.
     
  9. torontofc.section114

    Dec 2, 2007
    Ontario

    why should MLB hand welfare dollars to the jays, and american NHL teams hand out dollars to canadian teams? it works the same, TFC need a healthy MLS to be able to operate a franchise.
     
  10. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    Were not saying no sharing of money! Are you saying that the Yankees have the same wage as Toronto. If not I don't understand why you would bring that up as an example. Sure share tv revenue, sponsorships etc. But when clubs make that extra profit after all that, why can't it be reinvested into the team instead of going into the owner's pockets? I'm not even saying force owners to spend the money, lets take away this salary cap excuse and hold them accountable. I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR BEFORE THIS CONVO GOES ON A TANGENT (I'm not directing this at you, just making it clear to anyone else that replys.)
     
  11. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    Another article I found to back up my claim:

    The new investors are not simply drawn by a love of the game, but seek profit as Hicks or Glazer do. Richard Peddie, President and CEO of MLSE since 1999, has tripled the company’s enterprise value to $1.5 billion in nine years and knows his job is safe despite the failure of any of MLSE’s teams (Toronto F.C., the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors) to win a championship in that time. As he told Forbes, “The sportswriters tried to get me fired, but now they figure I make so much money for the owners, I am bulletproof.”

    Thanks to the tight salary cap (a little over $2 million) that keeps salary costs at a lower proportion of turnover than in the Premier League and the largely publicly-financed stadiums many MLS teams (including Toronto and Chicago) enjoy, it’s no wonder numerous investment groups are clamoring to join the league.

    Expenditure beyond the salary cap is possible by signing a Designated Player: Andell inherited Blanco, whose presence basically pays for itself in increased ticket and merchandising sales for the Fire, but Toronto seem little inclined to splash out this off-season. After all, BMO Field is sold out of season tickets for 2008 already. And given over half the league makes the playoffs, a “successful” season to satiate Toronto fans in 2008 is possible without considerable investment.

    Indeed, it could be a concern that whereas the Premier League demands madcap spending, profitable mediocrity could be too tempting for investors like MLSE (Maple Leafs fans will be familiar with this).
     
  12. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Though I agree with the sentiment, I want to wait until MLS has decent footing before allowing teams to spend as much as they can afford. I want a league to play in as much as I want TFC to succeed, and until a Canadian league is formed that league is MLS. I remember the old NASL and don't want to see a repeat of that. Besides, TFC has yet to use their DP - better off you pester them about that IMO.
     
  13. Cashcleaner

    Cashcleaner New Member

    Feb 5, 2007
    Ajax, Ontario
    I strongly believe there should be controls in place to ensure responsible spending and operations within the league, but I do agree that the salary cap at the moment is pitiful. MLS should take some of the approaches that make the NFL so successful as a sporting organisation. I think a cap is neccesary, but it has to be raised as to persuade more foreign players to come over here, and to keep home-grown players in the league.
     
  14. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So where were you guys in 1996?

    It has been a long, hard, expensive struggle to get this league to where it is today. So now you guys want to waltz in and change everything to suit yourselves?

    If you didn't like the way MLS is run, why did you join? Is there something about the MLS single entity corporate structure that you didn't understand?

    You wanted to be in the league, you got into the league. Be happy about it, instead of bitching about how unfair it is that you don't have a competitive advantage.

    Apparently no one has explained to yu that this is not a competitive league. Any comparisons to Major League Baseball or the EPL are childish, specious and ignorant. MLS is a whole different thing. Maybe you could try and pay attention.

    MLS is a single corporate entity. The owners are partners. Each "Investor/Operator" as they are called, owns the right to operate a team in a particular city. They do not "own" the team or the players. MLS does. The salary "budget" (it's not a "cap") exists because all the players are paid out of the same common pot of money in New York City.

    If it wasn't for the present structure, the league wouldn't be here at all and Toronto would be in USL 1.

    You remind me of the people who buy houses next to airports and then start in complaining because it's so noisy.
     
  15. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    Ahh ******** off I hate these ignorant Americans who think we should be thankful to the corporations for giving us sports teams. When its the owners who should respect the fans and not use them. Its clubs like ours that are making this league a success, while we languish at the bottom. Thats not the way soccer is played. Maybe it is in the ********ed up N.A system where leafs have the greatest support but never win anything. Glory follows support.
     
  16. VAB65

    VAB65 New Member

    Jul 2, 2007
    When you say using Toronto profits to cover their losses, exactly how much are you talking about?
     
  17. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Good point though Canadian NHL teams are all self-solvent these days, it's the southern US teams who are the burden, and to be honest they should be let go if you ask me. The NHL is different than MLS in that it is a well established league which currently has too many teams anyway.

    I think Bill Archer makes a fair point though, for the time being this is the only way it will work. Once MLS is better established then teams can become more independent.
     
  18. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

    The problem is that there are not enough of those markets around. Toronto, DC, LA and Chicago are strong. Houston does well, but they've yet to have a non-championship season. Will they have the same support if they have a losing season?

    The solution isn't to kick the Kansas Cities, Colorados and Columbuses out of the league. We need this league to survive in those cities as well, otherwise there will be no league for TFC to play in.
     
  19. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    How about making a league where theres already supports.... Bring in Vancouver, Montreal, Rochester, and I think there was talk of a second team in Chicago. Whocares if the teams aren't geographically dispersed. Look at the EPL, what are there like 6 out 20 from london alone? Having kansas in the top tier is almost as dumb as having a hockey team in Florida.....
     
  20. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

    The number of fans that they get in the cities you mention are comparable to what KC, Columbus, etc. draw per game. In order to grow this league to 20+ teams (and build a tiered system with prom/rel as everyone seems to want) the has to survive in these markets.
     
  21. Razcle

    Razcle New Member

    May 18, 2007
    Waterloo

    Dude this occurred when there was a huge difference between the Canadian and American Doller where the revenue to the Jays and Canadian NHL teams was far less based on the exchange rate. Now that we are at par....Canadian franchaises are putting $$ into the smaller markets to help support their losses. so it was welfare based on a struggling Canadian dollar, not based on a shit franchaise.
     
  22. use_stupid_name

    Jun 3, 2007
    Brampton
    Right, Newcastle has great support and wins lots of silverware, like the Intertoto Cup in '06... like the last time they won a first division title in 1926-1927, or their last FA Cup in 1955... So yeah... Like the Leafs, but worse.

    Get off your high European horse and join us other North Americans.
     
  23. socamonarch

    socamonarch Member

    Apr 16, 2005
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Actually..........We were invited in 1996........and at that time we didn't like how things were run..
     
  24. TFC07

    TFC07 Member

    May 19, 2007
    Brampton, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    really? source?

    Thanks. :)
     
  25. vita666420

    vita666420 New Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Scarborough
    Newcastle spends 45% of their turnover on wages alone.......... so its not like the fans are being robbed and providing the parent company with money. There are so many reasons why newcastle is not successful. Bad management, but most of all I think it stems from the fans who seem to value good performances and attractive football really highly. I don't think you can ever question Newcastle's actual resolve to win silverware. Man utd with much greater support spends 48%.. Lets see, estimates peg TFC's at 10-15%......, but they have other expenses of course like a stadium (no wait a minute, didn't we pay for that)
     

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