The market for strikers

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by theodore, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Most on this board assume that Ruiz was overpaid, and will be easy to replace. This thread is not started to argue, but simply educate the Ruiz detractors. (Please add any player omissions to this thread.)

    20 goals Luciano Emilio "would take millions to pry from MLS" and MFL interested

    16 goals Taylor Twellman 2.5 offer rejected by MLS

    15 goals EJ gone to EPL for 3.2 million

    9 goals Altidore - Euro interest

    7 goals Nwenga - recruited and gone to Europe

    7 goals Noonan - recruited and gone to Europe

    7 goals Andy Dorman - 400K gone to Europe

    6 goals Nate Jaqua - in Europe on trial

    6 goals Clint Mathis - gone to Europe
     
  2. Goal Sitter

    Goal Sitter New Member

    Feb 23, 2006
    if hsg sells kc's contract, the striker group will be pretty balanced.
     
  3. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    don't need a striker, nor an expensive one.
     
  4. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    If KC doesn't have his leg snapped, and if he wasn't handcuffed w/ a long contract... KC would be pulling down 500K or more in Euroland.

    Nor at any position for that matter. There is a construction crew that plays during lunch near my house. You could put this entire group of beer bellies out on the field. And, you wouldn't even have uniform costs as they don't even wear shirts when they play.

    And, I'm sure you'd like them. They play hard, they take orders, and they are easily replaceable.
     
  5. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    I don't agree with this assumption.
     
  6. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    75 out of 151 voters on a recent poll voted a 4 or 5 on a scale of 1 to 5 on being happy with the trade. It may not be most - but is is half.

    Never mind we haven't received anything for Ruiz yet.

    We traded him for money and space.

    I still cannot believe we traded a proven MLS goal scorer for Door # 2.

    I have no clue what Parrothead is talking about.
     
  7. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    You act as if this makes them worth too much to acquire. Noonan was effectively shown the door in NE. If Houston had any money to play with Nwenga could have been re-signed. Dorman is no loss and certainly for 400K we could do better in terms of talent by going to Central or South America. And, seriously, Mathis?? Just because his agent is able to swindle some idiots in Greece doesn't mean FCD can't afford a player.
     
  8. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    Have some names?
     
  9. Quills

    Quills Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Richardson
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why does everyone use this argument and act like it proves their point that we won't sign anyone. Most of the people on this board are not professional coaches or scouts with connections to numerous South American teams and agents. So just because I (a no-name BS poster) don't have names of South American players that can be productive in MLS doesn't mean that they don't exist. Toja, Richetti, Scheletto, Emilio, Fred... I'd never heard of any of these guys before last year but they showed up last year and did well. So I have faith that our coaches (including the new Jorge Alvial who sounds like he is pretty well-connected) will be able to find someone.
     
  10. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    Quills, easy. If you think shipping Ruiz was good, let's compare Ruiz with these new possibilities. Not a big deal. IF you think fans should trust the front office, then plenty of plenty of people can say "Look at Denilson, Shaka" disasters. Bring up Toja, and fans will say "that is a Pareja signing...he's gone now". If we are talking about signing a "name" like Schelletto, Fred, etc - well let's find out those names and talk about it. Keep in mind what you're asking though "have faith in the FO, and trust that we can get those 7 goals out of guys who've never played in MLS..."
     
  11. Quills

    Quills Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Richardson
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that "not having faith in the FO" is a perfectly good argument. I happen to have faith. I think Shaka was Clarke/Knight's idea (both gone). I think Denilson was more of HSG/Hitchcock's idea and Morrow did well to limit the carnage to one year (although I am disheartened to hear they offered a new deal at any price). Yes, Oscar may have had a lot to do with Toja but Alvial sounds like he has the same type of connections and abilities.

    There are so many "names" and "no-names" out there that there's no point in discussing possibilities until we hear at least a semi-valid rumor linking that player to FCD.
     
  12. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    I respect that. At this point we don't know a whole lot. My natural reaction to hearing FCD is going out to the international market is to be skeptical, but hey, that's me.[​IMG]
     
  13. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    I have examples from the past that show this is possible. How could I possibly have names of virtually unknown Central or South American players to give you? As Quills pointed out, I don't have the connections to do that. But we know it's possible from what this club and what other clubs in this league have been able to do in the very recent past. I'm saying they *can* do it, I'm not claiming they will. The point of Theo's post was to suggest that they couldn't even do it if they wanted to, I disagree. Regardless of how one feels regarding our FO's abilities, the fact remains that such acquisitions are possible in MLS.
     
  14. Goal Sitter

    Goal Sitter New Member

    Feb 23, 2006
    seems to me the pattern of bringing in a happy ROB and failing to provide equally supporting players was repeated with ruiz. i hold hsg accountable for their communications failures. are you an attorney or an all around apologist?
     
  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ROB has moved a lot of times. None of us know all the reasons but possibly he just gets tired of a place after a while. Lets watch what happens in Toronto after he's there a few years. If he's happy there for a long time it could point a finger this way. If not it points back at him.
     
  16. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Listed below just for you Tex. Find us one. I've looked, and I am very underwhelmed. I don't think that 46.668874% realize what a horrific F'Up it was to dump Ruiz for a bag of beans. Not only his absence, but especially losing the value that he held and only getting a bag of air for it. I've posted prices and the scarcity that MLS clubs will find themselves in next year w/ regards to goal scorers. To argue against the fact that the global price for goal scorers is exceptionally inflated, is to just be stubbornly and willfully ignorant.

    It is now not reasonable to honestly support the assertion that Morrow had a plan when he dumped Ruiz for a bag of air. He just wanted to place blame on someone else for his tactical shortcomings. And, this one will be a tough one to recover from. Below are the discount markets from which we value shop.

    No one else seems to be doing much looking, so it might as well be you Tex.
    Gutemala: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=27&camp=228

    Honduras: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=25&camp=256

    Costa Rica: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=24&camp=255

    El Salvador: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=35&camp=257

    Argentina: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=1&camp=222

    Bolivia: http://www.laprensa.com.bo/noticias/23-10-07/23_10_07_depo6.php

    Chile: http://futbolerosforever.blogspot.com/2007/07/goleadores-torneo-clausura-chileno-2007.html

    Uruguay: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=33&camp=269

    Venezuela: http://www.universofutbol.com/plantillas/archivos/goleadores.php?div=22&camp=242

    Colombia: http://www.univision.com/content/con...3283&pagenum=3

    And, if you find a couple, please call Hitch and Morrow. I'd do it, but I am covered in cobwebs, tightly gripping the armrests of my chair preparing to be blown away.
     
  17. fennsk

    fennsk New Member

    Jan 30, 2007
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Short list of players who would have an equal or lesser salary cap cost than Ruiz in 2008:
    EVERY PLAYER IN THE WORLD
     
  18. SeventhRowScreamer

    Jan 26, 2007
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just going to lay it on the line... any goals that fish would've scored this year for Dallas would not offset the amount of goals he would keep Kenny from scoring. Ruiz would just be taking touches away from the new goal king in Dallas;)
     
  19. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Thank you fennsk. Now we are getting closer to the full cycle of suck that I talked about a couple of weeks ago. We've already been through this once when we were lucky enough to have had one of the greatest forwards in MLS, in Ariel Graziani.

    If you rember, I was drawing parallels and laid out the step by step process.....
    #1 dump a hard to come by proven forward so that an apprentice coach can have a scapegoat.

    #2 lie and say you will replace the forward easily with another equal or better forward

    #3 start spinning some goofy logic about how wise it is for the team to actually not sign another high caliber forward
    (and on cue, we can read your post)

    #4 begin to suck all over again

    #5 spit, rinse, and repeat IF MLS feels sorry enough for your team and gifts you a great forward
     
  20. fennsk

    fennsk New Member

    Jan 30, 2007
    Pittsburgh, PA
    First off, I am overjoyed to be done with Ruiz because I'm not a fan of lazy players who flop, whine, and skip out on practice and games.
    The biggest problem I have with your argument, Theo, is that Ruiz is not an elite striker anymore. We did not just hand 20 goals to the Galaxy.

    I don't think that Ruiz was shipped to be a scapegoat. Morrow probably knows he's gone if he doesn't win a playoff game, with or without Ruiz.
    We have a better forward. Cooper. I'd be glad to see someone else get brought in as well, but if these players can start playing as a team, we've got something good here.
    The idea behind the Ewing theory is that a hungrier player that cares, like Cooper, Oduro, or Thompson will have a better chance to elevate their game. Would I be happy with another high quality forward, sure.
    I'll be mad if this team does not perform, but I don't think that it is a certainty.
     
  21. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    Ruiz showed diminishing returns at Dallas
    Goals / 90'
    '05 = .64
    '06 = .55
    '07 = .37

    Based on this, it would not be unreasonable to think Ruiz would put up around .35 or lower for '08. Thompson was at .36 last year and Oduro was at .25. In case you are wondering Cooper was at .40 in '06 and .33 in '07.

    Ruiz simply is not worth 4 to 10 times the salary cap space of FCD's other forwards with this production. The salary cap made Ruiz expendable more than anything else. It is constantly said he was traded for "a bag of air". In fact he was traded for $400K in cap space with the hope of spending on greater return and an unkown amount of allocation money. (I said on another thread that until this number is know we cannot accurately assess the trade, Buzz any word yet?) Allocation money is the single most underrated tool in MLS. Our two best aquisitions last year (Toja & Richetti) were thanks in part to allocation money. The trade of Ruiz frees enough salary and gives enough allocation to improve upon Ruiz's diminishing returns. The question is will the FO succeed in using the resource properly and/or will Ruiz turn around his downward trend?
     
  22. SoftTackle

    SoftTackle Member

    Jan 16, 2004
    Missoula, MT
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Unless there is a non-Ruiz factor in the diminishing returns, such as midfield service. If Ruiz returns to around 12-15 goals next year it will be a major indictment on Morrow's ability to evaluate a player and properly utilize a player.
     
  23. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Who were FCD's other forwards with this production? The other forwards sucked dirty butt. The next most productive guy was not a forward. And, he could not sustain the dribble, dribble once the Texas heat sapped his legs. This is old clearly substantiated stuff. Our midfield was one of the league's worst and creating opportunities.

    That stuff happens when you put lefties on the right and righties on the left and ask them to cut inside against a packed defense.

    It is too bad that we could not have simply kept Ruiz, gotten a guy like Rocha to play on the right side, kept our back line, and invested in a playmaker with Denilson's slot. But no, instead we set sail for the island of futility aboard the SS Minnow.

    How long until we get rid of the Captain and Gilligan? (Hitch and Morrow). What a predictably wasteful hire of a coach this has been. By the time we get a real coach, (if we ever do), the roster has been pretty much torched. It is built on the premis of packing it with whirling dervishes of dribble that will do so-so until the heat cooks their butts like a Texas T-Bone. By the time this disaster comes full bloom, we will be missing Mike Jefferies.

    We can start today on taking odds on who the new scapegoats will be. My money is on Toja and KC. Then we will be told what a locker room cancer Ricchetti and Dax have become. We will clean house again, promote some obscure British Island flunkie to coach again. The league will gift us a Michael Owen type of signing out of pity. Then, when the flunkie coach fails, we will place blame on the star forward, trade him for a bag of beans and perpetuate the Cycle of Suck .
     
  24. Jeddy Rasp

    Jeddy Rasp Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    out to lunch
    Denilson "used" to be great too. Ruiz scored 7 goals last season and while I agree that the chances were just not there that still equates to about $60,000 per goal. or a bit more, per goal, than Goodson made in the entire season.
     

Share This Page