Copa Azteca

Discussion in 'Mexico' started by drunkguy10, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    It just occured to me that it would be cool if Mexico had a tournament similar to the copa del Rey of spain. Most top leagues in Europe have it. In this tournament called lets say "Copa Azteca" The copa can be with 12 teams. Considering that with the exception of the Sudamericana, all the major tournaments such as Copa Libertadores and Concacaf champions cup, are played during the Clausura, the cup can take place during the Apertura. The teams participating in the Sudamericana would be excempt from participating.

    My vision consists of a 12 team tournament. Consisting of:

    4 teams from 1st division which would be seeded in quarter finals.

    6 teams from Primera A and 2 teams from Segunda will meat in Octavos

    The top 6 teams from Primera A would be seeded first in Octavos (Round of 16) the #6 would face #3, and #4 would face #5.

    The top 2 teams of the second division would have to face the top 2 teams from Primera A, with the #2 of Segunda against the #1 of Primera A, likewise the #2 of Primera A against the #1 of Segunda.

    After they pass the Octavos, the 4 remaining teams will meet the 4 teams from 1st division. They would be matched against each other according to their ranking. with the highest ranking 1st division team against the lowest ranked team of the other 4(should a segunda team make it, that team would be the lowest.)

    When seeding the 4 1st division clubs. the top two teams should be in opposite ends of the tournament table, so they would only be able to meet in the final.

    after the Quarter finals, the ranking system would no longer be used, and the teams would simply advance according to the table.

    I'm not familiar with the system of Segunda, I think that there are 5 five regions. the General table of the league should be the one used for the rankings, but if the regions never meet a league tournament between the top teams of each region should help provide the top two for the tournament. But like I said I dont know much about this league. Other than the fact that they have a team in Reynosa.

    If the tournament was to be held during the Clausura tournament, it would be easy to seed the teams according to the standings of the previous apertura tournament, but if its held during the Apertura, there is the issue of teams ascending and descending, the top team from Primera A would now be in Primera. This issue might also arise witht he top teams from Segunda.

    I would like to choose the 4 1st division teams according to their ranking in the tabla general, but I think that at first it should be the top 4 teams that agree to participate.:D

    )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    The tounament would have to have a backing from one or more of the tv stations. That is the only way that the teams from Primera A, and specially the ones from Segunda would get sponsors for travel.

    Overall, this would help to inter-link the teams from the other divisions with the 1st division, thus increasing the level of play of the lower divisions. If the lower divisions become better, they would provide more prepared players for the 1st division. Also if the lower division becomes stronger, stronger teams would advance to the 1st division, thus putting more pressure on the 1st division clubs to be better.

    Overall, this is a win win situation. Should it ever happen.

    Any thoughts? Please give some constructive criticism, or any ideas to make this tournament better. And above, those insult the product of my imagination.:D
     
  2. Robert_08

    Robert_08 Member

    Jun 13, 2007
    El Paso
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Mhhh...it would only be cool if we only had 1 long tournament
     
  3. amanzo81

    amanzo81 Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    home
    Club:
    Club América
    Rdl brought this up a couple of years ago and a few times since. Its a favorite topic of the forum. Like you said, the main thing is to get back to a single table league championship with a FMF wide cup thrown in too.

    Anyway, its less likely to happen now with teams participating in the Sudamericana, Libertadores, Concacaf Champions cup, Interliga, and Superliga in addition to the league. There would be no money in it for the directivos, so they would immediately be against it. The only way to convince them would be to somehow host these games in the US.
     
  4. nicamex1935

    nicamex1935 Member+

    Jul 10, 2007
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Cool idea... but honestly the players have enough tournaments and games. Apart from other tournaments some still gotta play for the NT and they practically play year-round takin like a two week break between Apertura and Clausura before they have to report to the team's first practice or friendly. The SuperLiga was just invented and that will be enough for right now even though I'd rather have your tournament than the SuperLiga. But, it's all about the money.
     
  5. Robert_08

    Robert_08 Member

    Jun 13, 2007
    El Paso
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    How about 1 long tournament
    Copa Azteca
    No Interliga(teams for libertadores and sudamericana determined by position in league table)
    Superliga during summer
     
  6. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    thats why the teams would be from mid uppe table. The teams that are usually participating in other tournaments are the same most of the time.
     
  7. Disco Dale

    Disco Dale Member

    Nov 29, 2005
    N8
    I thought they had a agreed to go back to 1 long season from 2010 or something?

    With a single league season, and NO PLAY-OFFS I believe there would be ample room for this excellent idea, but instead of having fewer teams, have all the teams in mexico starting ... like the FA Cup ... so even very low teams, works teams etc etc start in the pre-lims, and the "big boys" enter a little later ... would be so cool to get some of the "giant" killing thrills and spills the FA cup has thrown up over the years ... Ronnie Radford and Hereford v Newcastle, for example ...
    It would replace the position now held by the play-offs ....

    Obviously there would be some need to try and make the draw not get a team playing against a team wholly owned by the other team, but it could work, and be fantastic .. I have mentioned before the idea of Inter Playa playing at The Azteca, and beating America ... really could be fun ...
     
  8. sangreazul

    sangreazul Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    Belmont, CA
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    There used to be a tournament called the Copa Mexico where indeed some of the lower divisions participated. After a quick search, I did find this link that a Cruz Azul fan did, but it gives a nice history of the cup and how it had transformed over the years. It includes the list of all the winners, runners up, etc ... Sadly, it hasn't been played in about 10 years. It would ne nice if they got this going again ...

    http://www.geocities.com/nabte/cruzazultorneos2.html
     
  9. mixtil36

    mixtil36 Member

    Sep 13, 2006
    Corona, CA
    Club:
    Club León
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    The first step to this would be a single season where they can space out all the games. In reality the Super Liga is a joke, the MLS is in full swing while the FMF is just getting started. If they get a Copa Azteca started, they should let all the lower league teams battle it out until they reach a knock out stage featuring the top tier teams. Maybe 8 from the top tier with another 8 from a battle from the lower tier teams. It might be fun to watch.
     
  10. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    A year long league, is not going to happen. The clubs make too much money with the short tournaments.
     
  11. Disco Dale

    Disco Dale Member

    Nov 29, 2005
    N8
    From June this year

    It is very short sighted really .... but I think you are right, they just won't change .....
     
  12. Serg33

    Serg33 Member+

    Jul 11, 2007
    I think it can work, even with the 2 short tourneys. Although there are various obstacles in the way. You mentioned that a TV station would have to front some money so that the lower division teams can travel, not quite sure how Televisa or TV Azteca would be willing to do so. Another things, is there has to be some sort of compensation for winning the cup. For example, if you win the F.A you're allowed to compete in the Champions League, I think the same goes for la Copa del Rey. So perhaps entry into the la copa libertadores or la sudamericana because entry into la superliga or the CONCACAF champions cup isn't too appealing. Another issue, would the FMF allow a lower division team to go represent mexico in the 2 most prestigious tournaments of all the western hemisphere if that lower division team were to win La Copa Azteca? So how would the FMF compensate the lower divisoin teams if they were to win the cup? Perhaps a spot in the Interliga? I don't know...there is a lot of things in the way of actually creating this tournament, but nevertheless I like the idea.
     
  13. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Should a spot for the libertadores, copasudamericana or concacaf champions cup is out of the question, at least in the early years of the tournament. For concacaf champions cup, you have to have one the league, and I think the same applies for sudamericana, but i'm not sure. The Libertadores is almost a NO, because it would further down play the role of the interliga, and again the economic factor would come into play.

    Perhaps a spot in the interliga is viable, but I would say, that a spot in the SuperLiga is much better, because it would help give that tournament more credibility, since one team would actually have to qualify for it. The problem is that should a Primera A team, or why not, a Segunda division team, it would undermine the Superliga. However, I would go for the Superliga as a reward, plus also some kind of monetary prize.

    Like I said, the support of the TV stations is vital. It doesn't necesarily have to be TV Azteca or Televisa. In Monterrey there is mulimedios, I think it serves all Nuevo Leon and parts of Tamaulipas. I would assume that is not the only one. If it starts at the local level, it can eventually grow.
     
  14. Serg33

    Serg33 Member+

    Jul 11, 2007
    I'v always thought the interliga was a bunch of crap, I mean, I may not know but it doesn't seem as though a team necessarily qualifies to enter la interliga so I don't see how a Primera A or Segunda division team would down play the Interligas credibility...cuz in my opinion it doesn't really have much credibility (in terms of how a team gets into the tourney). I understand the importance of the interliga which is why I thought that a spot in it would be something a lower division team and a first division team would find appealing. A spot in the Superliga would also make sense, although lower division teams would find that more appealing than perhaps the bigger teams in the first divison and at this point IMO the superliga has NO credibility. Although at this point I guess a spot in the Superliga and some cash would be the only thing that can be offered, due to the fact that a spot in the Interliga wouldn't be in the best interest of those interested in making cash.
     
  15. Disco Dale

    Disco Dale Member

    Nov 29, 2005
    N8
    I am not a fan of the interliga or superliga at all ... If you fail to give this new cup a route to something bigger and better - yes even a Libertadores spot (remember there is more than one for Mexico), otherwise the big teams may not take it that seriously .. it helps give it high profile and credibility from the off, and if a "smaller" or lower league team win it, good for them ... let them go to Libertadores, make more money, and maybe move up the leagues ... may also help to give the primera A (and below) more credibility . maybe.
     
  16. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    The problem with this is that I dont thing conmebol will be happy if we let a Primera A team compete in the Libertadores.

    The Sudamericana would be a better option, or maybe the concacaf cup.

    In my opinion a pass to the SuperLiga will be more viable. I remember that the organizers said that they plan to make the Super Liga, a qualifying tournament, rather than just by invitation. That could be the incentive. After all, the winning prize for the Interliga is $1 million dollars.
     
  17. Aguilas Del America

    Oct 28, 2002
    Nido de Coapa
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Winner of the tournament gets a berth into the Copa Sudamericana.
     
  18. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    really?
     
  19. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Copa Azteca is an insult to all Mayas, Toltecas, Olmecas, Purepechas, Huastec, Totonac, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Brits, Criollos, Peninsulares and Nacoamericanos alike :D

    It is Copa Mexico or nothing :D
     
  20. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    They'll get over it :cool:
     
  21. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    I more than anyone would love to have a league or federation knock out tournament, but at this juncture...it just is not feasible. I have not had a chance to look as of late, but as of a couple years ago... only 2 of the 20 2nd division clubs (primera A) were self sufficient and fully autonomous. I know the number of teams has increased since the last time I checked, but the number of independent owners have not.

    There is no point in having Atl. Mexiquense, Socio Aguila, Pachuca Jrs, Rayados de Monterrey A, Tigres B, Monarcas Morelia, Tecos play against their very own teams in the first division.

    People cry foul play when when Necaxa loses to America or when Grupo Modelo owned/or administered 3 clubs in the 1st division.... imagine Atl. Mexiquense losing to big brother, Toluca.

    We need Copa Mexico, but we need it done right.... to promote and foment football at the grassroots level... doing it now with our current set up would have the same legitimacy as SuperLiga.
     
  22. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    you got a good point there. I wonder how they do it Spain when that situation arises.
     
  23. Levante

    Levante Member+

    Jul 28, 2001
    It doesn't happen too often, but that's a good question.
     
  24. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    The Spanish FA no longer allows reserve teams (like Ream Madrid Castilla) to participate in Copa Del Rey. They also do not allow reserve teams to play with the senior team within the same division.
     
  25. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    that could also work in Mexico, the thing is that most of the 1st division clubs have teams in Primera A, in fact, i heard a while back that they were trying to make it a general rule for a 1st division club to have a team in Primera A. This was at the end of the Peru 2005 and there was this drive to give youngsters more chances.
     

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