Roster and Tactics discussion [R]

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by tigerdave, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only put the R in there in case anyone puts results in here. What I'm hoping is that we can evaluate the tactics and the roster over the course of the season in this thread and see what we armchair managers think of what's going on.

    Here is our official roster (29 players) as of the transfer window slamming shut:

    Goalkeepers:

    1 Shay Given
    13 Steve Harper
    34 Fraser Forster
    40 Tim Krul (on loan to Falkirk until 1 Jan 2008)

    Defenders:

    2 Stephen Carr
    3 José Enrique Sánchez Díaz
    4 David Rozehnal
    6 Claudio Cacapa
    21 Habib Beye
    26 Peter Ramage (major knee injury, likely out for season)
    27 Steven Taylor
    30 David Edgar
    33 Celestine Babayaro
    -- Abdoulaye Diagne-Faye

    Midfielders:

    5 Belozoglu Emre
    7 Joey Barton (metatarsal injury, out until mid-Sept.)
    11 Damien Duff (knee injury, out until at least Oct.)
    14 Charles N'Zogbia
    16 James Milner
    20 Nijtap Geremi
    22 Nicky Butt
    35 Matty Pattison
    37 James Troisi

    Forwards:

    9 Obafemi Martins
    10 Michael Owen
    17 Alan Smith
    23 Shola Ameobi
    32 Mark Viduka
    39 Andy Carroll (on loan to Preston until 1 Jan 2008)


    So, with that in mind...start forming your starting XI and best formations/tactics!
     
  2. ZoomVT

    ZoomVT Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Vermont
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    This is what i would like to see:

    Code:
                             Given
    
          Taylor   Rozenhal    Beye     Jose Enrique
    
    Milner         Butt         Geremi         Nzgobia
    
                             Barton
    
                   Martins            Owen
    
    
    Its what i would liek to see. Interestingloy enough we have a lot of exchangeable piees in the back; so i wouldnt mind seeing Cacapa thrown in themix to give othes a break; as well as bringing Geremi back if need be. I think we are finally in a situation were the level of quality in our bench is pretty consistent with our starters (except for Carr)...
    As far as the middle; i think that Smith has to come up front and not in the midfield. he could possibly do th job on the outside of the mid if the back behind him stays anchored to cover his back.
    Geremi and Butt can break a lot of plays and with Barton in front of them, we'll get the support our strikers need and Smith doesnt provide; as well as good defending.
    With all our pieces in place, we wont need a target man to boot it to as we will have much better quality in key positions... Milner and Nzgo can play into Bartons feet and/or Owen/Martins feet as well. we should be keeping the ball on the ground for the most part.
    Personally i dont like the target man up top. Makes it easy to defend IMO. Knocking the bal around the defence is a better strategy. The big man can come in for a midfielder when we must score in the last 30 mins of the game; we would be going with 3 strikers plus the attacking midfielder (Barton). Sacrificing a midfielder (Geremi or Butt).

    What do you guys think?


    PS. Our midfield looks kind of thin; would have loved to see Nobby stay as Troisi and Pattison may not be ready yet...
     
  3. bburgarelli

    bburgarelli New Member

    Jul 17, 2006
    Brazil
    Considering the injuries, I have the following in mind:

    Code:
                 José            Zogs
                 Rozenhall      Butt      Martins
    Given      Caçapa        Geremi   Owen
                 Taylor          Milner
    
    But, my ideal lineup would be:

    Code:
               José            Zogs
               Rozenhall      Emre      Martins
    Given    Caçapa        Barton    Owen
               Taylor          Milner
    
     
  4. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want to see Geremi and Butt in the midfield together unless we're playing one of the big 4.

    Alan Smith is useless as a midfielder and I suppose he was brought in for cover in case Martins or Owen left. I would prefer to see him play as a withdrawn striker or a target forward in Vidukas absences.

    We look much better in a 4-4-2


    i don't believe we always need a big forward/little forward all the time. I think a Martins /Owens partnership would slash some teams backlines.


    Code:
         Beye   Cacapa   Rozenthal   Enrique
    
             Milner   Barton    Geremi       Zoggy
    
                     Owen          Martin  
    
     
  5. mplsTOON

    mplsTOON Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    @ St James Park
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I think thats a 12 man side...:eek:
     
  6. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Are you Rafa Benitez in disguise? :p
     
  7. colinh9

    colinh9 New Member

    Apr 26, 2003
    NY
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    I'd probably go with:

    GK: Given
    RB: Taylor
    LB: Jose
    CB: Cacapa
    CB: Rozenhal
    ARM: Milner
    LM: Zogs
    CM: Barton
    CM: Butt
    ST: Owen
    ST: Martins

    Depending on the play of Barton would be important because if he isn't quality I would push Alan Smith to CAM and have Butt/Geremi play DM. In that case I might also drop Owen/Martins for Viduka depending on their form. Now I really haven't seen Beye, Rozenhal, Cacapa play enough so a lot in the future will depend on how I view their form. We have a lot of depth which is extremely nice.

    Another situation is that I would drop Barton and put Emre in the middle with Geremi or Butt. We have a lot of experimenting to do if you ask me because we still can't be 100% sure what works the best. I'd hate to see us stick to big man little man up top though because I think we can effectively switch that up.
     
  8. mdfc

    mdfc Member

    Jul 12, 2004
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, all I know is it's nice to have options! That's why this could be a cup run year. Even with Arsenal in the CC, they tend to put their younglings out there for that competition. Get past that one and we could be on our way!
     
  9. JaredSS07

    JaredSS07 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 6, 2005
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even thought Owen and Martins are our most gifted strikers, I dont think we would be able to get them service. Because we don't have a strong short passing game in the midfield, i think we still need a big target man. I really like the idea of subbing Martins and Owen in for each other is a good way to keep them both fit.

    Code:
                  Shola
              Martins/Owen                  
                                        Milner
    Zog                  Barton   
             Butt/Geremi
    Enrique                           Beye
              Taylor   Cacapa/Roz
                       Given
    
    
    
     
  10. toon_soldier_86

    toon_soldier_86 New Member

    Jul 21, 2005
    THE BAY
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Northern Ireland
    ---------------------------given

    -----beye---------roz----------taylor-------zog

    ---------------------butt/geremi

    ----------milner---------smith--------barton

    --------------------oba/shola

    ----------------------------vid/owen


    im not sure that the midfield is the perfact choice formation wise, but i am more interested in which players are in the midfield. i do think that barton/zog could play well together on the left, with smith more towards the right
     
  11. colinh9

    colinh9 New Member

    Apr 26, 2003
    NY
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Fair enough but I don't think there is any reason not to give Owen/Martins a chance up top. Martins can hold the ball up pretty well if you ask me, and he is a pretty strong guy. The only reason he isn't a target player is because he has skill and speed.
     
  12. JaredSS07

    JaredSS07 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 6, 2005
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Martins can jump for a long ball and dribble well enough to hold the ball up, but he isn't physical and won't battle for a ball. When he gets hit, he becomes Italian, falls over, and makes faces at the official.
     
  13. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sam's tactics from today:

    Starting XI vs. Man Citeh

    --------Given--------
    ---Beye--Tayls--Rozey--Zoggy
    -----------------------
    ---Geremi----Butt-----
    --------Smith---------
    -----------------------
    ---Milner-----Martins
    ---------Viduka--------


    As I stated in the matchday thread, this was a recipe for disaster. Citeh have talented wing midfielders that, when not hassled through the midfield, have the ability to terrorize the fullbacks (one of whom isn't even a full back!) because we don't have any width. We also have no offensive creativity in that three-man midfield, only two hard men and a supersub utility player. That's not going to work against top-half sides.

    I think the major issue in going to a 4-4-2, Sam's hot and sultry love affair with the 4-3-3 aside, is Jose Enrique's match fitness and his adaptation to the English game. If he can steady himself at the left back position, this opens up so much more for our game.

    --------Given--------
    ---Beye---Taylor---Rozey---Jose Enrique
    ---------------Butt (Barton when healthy)----
    ------Milner------Emre-------Zog
    ------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------Martins----
    -------------------Vid-----------------

    Conventional 4-4-2, CDM to help the center backs, width to pressure the wing play earlier so our full backs don't get quite so abused, and offensive-minded central midfielder and a little and large combination. This isn't complicated, and this is the best formation for the players we currently have (are you listening, Sam?).
     
  14. Zaphkiel

    Zaphkiel Self-hating Asian

    Mar 3, 2005
    ZOMG NONE!!!11
    I'm actually starrting to see that Sam will not change his tactics, he is stuck with his ways and will try to bend the plays to fit him, not the other way around...just my 2 cents.
     
  15. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he does that, then we're not really that much better off than we were under Roeder or Souness and will continue to "underachieve". And I reckon he'd be sacked at the end of the season or thereabouts.
     
  16. mplsTOON

    mplsTOON Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    @ St James Park
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    <plug> FYI: great little site to help witth your tactical display: http://www.myeleven.co.uk/

    IMO here is my 2¢ with who is currently available:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    And of course, Barton will bump Butt to the bench when healthy, and Duff will knock Emre to the subs as well. Basically, Barton in for Butt, Duff on the wing with Zogs as the CAM. And then I guess you drop Faye for Butt on the bench, and then don't worry about Emre because he'll get injured again. And of course, Owen is in the mix somewhere when not crocked.
     
  18. roxbury

    roxbury Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    tigerdave


    It looks classy line up.



    4-3-1-2 = 4-3-3 (?)
     
  19. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The difference between a 4-3-1-2 (I actually think I had it as a 4-4-2 diamond) and a 4-3-3 is fairly subtle. You just put an attacking midfielder like Emre or N'Zogbia in the hole behind the two out-and-out forwards rather than having the foil up top with two running off him. It's just changing the point of attack from direct football to a more continental passing game. Which is what I think everyone would like to see more of, and I believe that we have enough quality players to be able to do it.
     
  20. toon_soldier_86

    toon_soldier_86 New Member

    Jul 21, 2005
    THE BAY
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Northern Ireland
    why are you guys saying that barton will replace butt? its butt/gerimi that are d-mid. Barton will play along side one of them in central mid. i dont think that barton is an attacking mid but goes far more forward than gerimi/butt. bsa isnt going to play him as a d-mid, barton and emre have the attacking quality that we are somehow missing!


    -----butt/gerimi
    -milner-barton-zog
    -----owen
    ---------viduka
    or

    milner-butt/gerimi-barton-zog
    -----owen
    ---------viduka
     
  21. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Geremi is not a d-mid, and you just said that Barton is an a-mid. In a lineup devoid of an attacking option through the center of the park, why on earth would you insert a non-a-mid into the a-mid spot?
     
  22. roxbury

    roxbury Member+

    Apr 27, 2004

    Thanks for the replay about it.


    I think it might be work well ,the formation that you made it with balanced players... your player choice will well suitewith that kind of tactic..
    only my concerning is '' healty first eleven''.
    Iam talkin for ''your line up at the back thread''.


    Regards
     
  23. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    At this point, what's it going to hurt to use this lineup? Of course, this makes too much sense and actually puts players in their proper positions and whatnot.
     
  24. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    Only the fact that the team's leading scorer from last season isn't on the pitch.

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  25. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was the team's leading scorer by default. Not sure he's much more than an up-front version of Emre right now, a good change of pace who can win you a match but shouldn't play all 90.
     

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