The Morning Dump: Women’s World Cup [R]

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Wizardscharter, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. Redfoot

    Redfoot New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What a stupid decision to start Scurry over Solo. Solo hadn't given up a goal in almost 300 minutes and then you bench her. That makes no sense.
     
  2. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Yeah, turns out Hope has already voiced things to the media. Ryan is clearly dead to her. Hope was much softer in her comments about Bri, but still direct. Among other things, she said she would have made those saves and it shouldn't matter what was done in a big tournament in '04 as it's '07 now. Amazingly she was calm and controlled in her comments. She did not have the mannerisms of, say, Lalas after that debacle.

    Solo is a picture of a woman who has just had everything taken from her. The next man to cheat on her has a better shot at future reconcilliation. There is no way Ryan remains the head coach. No way. So if your alma mater has an ify women's team, drop a note to your AD.

    One last thing, consider if you are an investor in the latest version of the WUSA. You think Ryan has any shot of a job in that league? I couldn't write him a check to wash the jerseys in my locker room, I just couldn't.
     
  3. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A classic case of a coach outsmarting himself.

    Happens all the time in the NFL.
     
  4. Bird1812

    Bird1812 New Member

    Nov 10, 2004
    Actually this is the best thing that could have happened. For years some have been predicting the end unless the US woke up. Yesterday was, once and for all, most definitely a wake up call.
     
  5. kopiteinkc

    kopiteinkc Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Shawnee
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    What happened to the wake up call at the last World Cup -- you know when USA was completely outclassed by Germany?
     
  6. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    exactly.
     
  7. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't see the game, so I don't know if we had any good chances, but what was so shocking for me was the fact that we didn't score any goals. Forget the fact that we gave up four, but we didn't even put one in.

    Disappointing.
     
  8. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes we did. Unfortunately it was into our own goal. :(
     
  9. Bird1812

    Bird1812 New Member

    Nov 10, 2004
    Then they thought it was a fluke. All they saw from Germany was the same big girls that the US was so dependent upon, not recognizing the technical and tactical differences. So what did the US go and do? Try to find more bigger, stronger girls. I actually thought Ryan was going to change that and he did seem to bring in a different kind of player initially, but his game was still about lobbing the ball to the big girl up front and not about finding or using technically and tactically sophisticated players.
     
  10. Bird1812

    Bird1812 New Member

    Nov 10, 2004

    And look at the statistics:


    United States/ Brazil
    Shots (on Goal) 7(3)/ 18(7)
    Fouls 11/ 11
    Corner Kicks 2/ 4
    Offsides 0/ 0
    Time of Possession 37%/ 63%
    Yellow Cards 3/ 2
    Red Cards 1/ 0
    Saves 7/ 3
     
  11. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Lets not get too over the top. The team you described sounds a whole lot more like Germany than the USA. And for that matter, the bigger stronger women on every team down to Ghana are doing just fine thank you. The women haing problems are teeh smaller less athletic women...and those facing Birgit or Marta.

    Another difference is that USA has played everyone and Germany has only played a signifigantly worn down North Korea team. Norway put one in their own net v Geramny also...possibly the worst of the tournament this side of the Argies.
     
  12. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Well, maybe he isn't so stupid after all. In a gutless, but possibly smart move, Ryan has reached out to Hope with concillitory comments I'll not post here as they are all over.

    It ain't gonna help him.
     
  13. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From Peter King's "Monday Morning Quarterback" column on si.com:

    "Hope Solo. The most apt last name in sports."
     
  14. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    It's a viewpoint I guess. Apparently he had time to snipe inbetween NFL stories.

    For me, when I heard Hope's original comments, I didn't get the vibe that she was throwing Bri Scurry under the bus. I heard two things clearly. One was that she could have impacted the team through performance that was lacking and that Ryan's decision was crap. The first comment is just a world class athelete being who she is. Nobody thinks anything of that in a individual sport or even in some team sports. To me it was just confidence melded with disappointment, not a condemnnation of Bri's skills. The second set of comments was agreed upon by everyone in the world including Greg Ryan's relatives.

    The view of Solo trashing Scurry seemed to be one of ESPN's making. At the very least the tail wagged the dog a bit here.

    I re-watched the Brasil/USA game. I can't say USA would have won with Hope in net. I can say with conviction that I don't believe the first goal (the OG) happens as either Hope communicates and the ball is left for her or the defender decides not to dive in and leaves it. Hope corrals it, no poroblem.

    The case against the second goal happening has more to do with the kicking differential between Hope and Bri. Bri's short kicks early gave Brasil a higher percentage of second ball wins central on GK clearances. This in addition to being closer to goal when they did win it. It isn't much of a stretch to see how Marta isn't in the position for her strike with Hope clearing it. Hope also showed in earlier matches a clear ability to get to the post on both shots barely wide and to the corners. Hard to tell if Hope saves it or not. We know definitively Bri missed it and that's why she was in there supposedly.

    Oops.

    Does the red happen if USA is 0-0? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, with the kicking differential would Brasil have even been that close? None of the above addresses the fundamental look of deer in headlights that USA had during the whole of the game.

    What a waste. The sooner Ryan is fired, the better. I also wonder if some book published years from now will have details of how the "leaders" of the team came to decise Hope was out.

    The next one will probably be in Germany. Two-time champs look to three-peat.
     
  15. Redfoot

    Redfoot New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree I took them as her being confident in her ability's and pissed at Ryan's decision to bench her and nothing else. Personally I'm still amazed that a coach at that level would think a keeper who hadn't played outside of practice for the last month or so would be sharp and more ready to go than the keeper who had been playing. I'm just not a big fan of messing with a winning team's chemistry, especially one who hadn't given up a goal in 298 minutes.
     
  16. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She TOTALLY threw her teammate under the bus.

    "I could have made those saves." You can't diss your teamates like that. She was totally right about the decision (Ryan screwed the pooch), but you have to keep your mouth shut.

    IMO, athletes who don't even compete in the game shouldn't have such an opinion, nor should she make rash statements like, "I could have made those saves." She probably didn't intend to diss Scurry, but she did.
     
  17. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Not a teammate dis, just a statement of fact.

    At anything remotely close to that level (much less Top of the World class) players are told repeatedly to fight, compete, stay in the game, stay confident, you've got to think you are the #1 even if you're not, have the attitude that you're the best, etc. Now we get pissed because the media wants to extend a comment way past the content into, "Bri sucks".

    Nope, wrong. Everyone was sucked in by the media's sales pitch.

    We took those comments differently. I chose to see it as a declairation of confidence. Regardless, Scurry gave up 4 goals in a ridiculously poor performance in every aspect from shot stopping to box command to distribution. Marta was great. Scurry made her look Goddess-like. Germany exposed the true reality.

    Moving on. You don't blow a World Cup in that fashion and get to remain as the guiding beacon of a National Team. Greg Ryan needs to go or at least go to a youth team. They should wish Lilly well while they're at it. Solo is the only chance USA have at titles, she needs to be there. She can't play for Ryan. Ryan must be out. Any other decision will be jumped on by the media at any future event and will become the same grade of distraction.
     
  18. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It WAS a statement of fact. Solo was correct. She still shouldn't have said it.

    If a coworker of mine blabbed to the whole company that I blew a sales pitch that they would have nailed, I'd be pretty pissed. It's a backdoor way of saying, "I'm better than you." Which may be true, but how does Solo know that she would have been on her game that day? She doesn't. How does she know that she wouldn't have given up 6 goals that day? She doesn't. It was a backdoor swipe at at Bri's play. Even if she never said, "Bri Sucked," she basically said "Bri sucked." We all know that in sports you can't assume anything.

    He's gotta be gone. Some people were talking like this was the best US team ever. 3rd place is unacceptable.

    Now if we could only hold our men's team to that kind of expectation. :)
     
  19. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
  20. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Alrighty, here is my morning dump:

    The more I consider the above, the more it has the familiar ring of the typical high school horse-bleep between two prominent sets of girls in HS (stick with me on this), those being the cheerleader/cutie/"glitter chicks" and the more athletic women.

    The standard situation repeated thousands of times everywhere every year is the Quarterback is with the starting outside hitter on the Volleyball team, something happens, then he's with the dance team captain or cheerleader. The cheerleader and her co-captains say something catty to one of the OH's teammates at a dance or whatever, the "D" or "C" word is spoken, and next thing you know the tall blonde OH with the muscles and the 22" vertical decides to put the little mouthy skirt in her place. Soon hair is being pulled and a slap-fight, or if you're really lucky punches, draws the attention of EVERYONE. Because, you know, who can resist an arrogant wench getting her come-uppance or at the very least a good cat-fight?

    Not me. :)

    You can easily put the above in an office situation or a bar or a local fest or pretty much anywhere women end up talking, but I thought the above was most universal.

    Anyway, it's long been part of the record that Lilly has been beyond very disappointed and outright angry over her lack of being able to capitalize on her Nat Team success in terms of marketing dollars. She has long suspected her looks was the biggest component. Her words. Lilly has done several video interviews decrying the lack of the more "athletic" women (read: less pretty) being sought out as spokeswomen in favor of the more asthetically pleasing. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and revenge is a dish best served cold...

    It's pure conspiracy theory, but something had to make 20 women that by all accounts were tight become vendictive harpies that banished one of their own. The USA Today article had that something being USA "player leadership" demanding the team adhear to their subscriptions and shun Solo. However you define it, Lilly is on that short list.

    Is it too much of a stretch to see a clear path of Logic, given that Solo was already prominent in Nike ads with her and other teammates. Certainly the whispers of things to come for Solo and others if the USA won were heard by everyone. Surely that could not have been a secret. It doesn't seem a great leap to think Lilly had a least a kernel of payback in mind for all of the dollars she lost to the lilkes of Mia, Brandy, Heather Mitts, and even Julie Fouty.

    It wouldn't be the first time the evil of what is good for me has been covered neatly in a shroud of what's good for the team/country/world/group.

    Folks, this story has perfectly long and lovely hosiery-model legs wrapped in 5 inch stilletto heels.
     
  21. KCRovert

    KCRovert BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 17, 2004
    Overland Park
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To paraphrase:
    "God darnit, Dave, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore."
     
  22. cjgwizard

    cjgwizard Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    LSP, section 129
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow....as a female and an athlete, there are parts of this post that seem rather sexist (or maybe I just read it in the wrong context three times), especially the last comment. I don't want to pick a fight or start a long, drawn out argument over this, but I am confused about why you think a female athlete's looks (Lilly's in particular) have something to do with this controversy. I thought it was about the coach wrongly benching the starting goalkeeper and said GK speaking out pubicly after said move backfired. True, as team leader, Lilly could have spoken up privately if she felt the move was wrong, but that has nothing to do with her looks. I have my doubts that she didn't speak up because of jealousy.

    Just adding on to your analogy about high school BS: Back in my high school days (in the mid 80's), the cutesy cheerleaders never said anything bad about me within earshot, because they either knew I could kick their a$$ without much effort (5'8", 145 lbs. over 5'2", 100 lbs? You be the judge of that so-called catfight), or because we were for the most part classmates in the honors program (so they were also smarter than the typical bitch cheerleaders we see portrayed on TV currently). Hell, even most of the boys didn't diss me, because I did kick their a$$es, usually on the field/court at a younger age when co-ed meant all boys and me on one team. Unfortunately for me, that also meant no date to the senior prom since the boys saw me more as a friend and teammate than girlfriend material, but oh well; I ended up as class valedictorian instead. :D

    Like I said, I don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate....just felt the need to "take a dump". OK, my dump is done....I feel better now. Carry on. :)

    EDIT: OK, I read your post another couple of times, and can see where your theory on jealousy comes from. Sometimes it takes several readings to disect what you are actually saying. I can see the logic, but I still doubt Lilly is that petty. Maybe as a longtime teammate of Scurry's, she didn't disagree with the coach's decision....who knows. As an "average looking" female athlete myself, I can see the point of your argument though.
     
  23. KCDEFENDER

    KCDEFENDER New Member

    May 9, 2007
    SW MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whether SOLO should have said it or anything at all, is really not as big deal as the team letting her go and the team shunning her!! She should have stayed in goal!!! She was rightly upset and not only wanted to be there for her team but for her nation. She, the team , and the nation was let down by the coach , scurry and the team!
     
  24. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    I have no reference point for that, but I'll take it as a compliment. Thx.
     
  25. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Congrats on the latin thing. Sry to hear about Prom. The lesson most women don't know at that age is if you ask a guy for something you're likely to get it. Wayne Gretzky has this corrolary: "You don't score 100% of the shots you don't take." Regardless, most of my close friends didn't go either and they were all atheletes too.

    Don't feel too bad. Here's my Prom memory. I spent alot of money twice on the same girl. None of my good friends were around. I went off to college and when my money ran out after driving back and forth every weekend from Columbia and paying $200 phone bills she dumped me. There's one nice picture of us looking fairy good as a Ken & Barbie couple with her in a pink tea-length and me in silver shadow tails. I'm not certain it was worth the many thousands of dollars I spent on her way back then, especially in light of the mind-numbing investment posibilities in the late 80s, but it's a good pic.

    I would have posted it, but I can't find it.

    As for Lilly, I'm not saying it's the whole enchalada, I am saying there is no way Lilly's reaction in particular is devoid of her past memories. The video articles she's done in the past had clear elements of just-below-the-surface seething anger about such people as Kournakova, Shirapova, Chastain, the Jan Stevensons and others. It wasn't about those ladies in a personal way, but just her realization that for Madison Ave., she wasn't in the group. I certainly didn't mean it to sound sexist, these things were on HBO's Real Sports and other media outlets. Lilly was to "go to" person for the other view.
     

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